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Archive 2012 · How noisy is your 7D?
  
 
Imagemaster
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · How noisy is your 7D?


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  Canon EOS 7D    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens    210mm    f/10.0    1/1000s    3200 ISO    0.0 EV  




Aug 27, 2012 at 05:55 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · How noisy is your 7D?


Another one this time at ISO 1600




  Canon EOS 7D    EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM lens    123mm    f/4.0    1/200s    1600 ISO    -0.3 EV  




Aug 27, 2012 at 11:49 AM
n0b0
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · How noisy is your 7D?


Liquidstone wrote:
IME, this level of noise at the pixel level won't be noticeable in prints. For web display at reduced size, it's quite simple to filter out the noise, as you have shown in the first photo.

Have you tried ACR/LR in conversion? "Cross-hatched" and "white-dot" types of noise are minimized with ACR/LR when compared to DPP.


Oh I'm not really worried about noise. At the common web viewing size, you only have to do a small amount of NR and noone will notice any noise. If I want to print, again as you said it won't be noticeable in prints, but I'll do a small amount of NR on OOF area using Dfine or simply make a layer with 2-3% blur and paint a mask.

Or I would do a bit of Luminance NR, leave the Chrominance alone and convert to B&W. I just adapt and see what works best.

One thing I noticed though, on a display with big pixel pitch, such as a 55" 1080p plasma HDTV as an extreme example, the noise WILL be noticeable. Or maybe it's because the TV has less colour gamut? Perhaps that explains why some people seem more critical than others about noise.

This image looks like a slightly grainy B&W pic on my calibrated 27" 2540x1440 IPS monitor but when I streamed it to my 1080p TV, I could REALLY see the noise.








Aug 27, 2012 at 03:36 PM
uz2work
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · How noisy is your 7D?


n0b0 wrote:
One thing I noticed though, on a display with big pixel pitch, such as a 55" 1080p plasma HDTV as an extreme example, the noise WILL be noticeable. Or maybe it's because the TV has less colour gamut? Perhaps that explains why some people seem more critical than others about noise.

This image looks like a slightly grainy B&W pic on my calibrated 27" 2540x1440 IPS monitor but when I streamed it to my 1080p TV, I could REALLY see the noise.



I think that you have struck at a significant issue with regard to viewing web images, and that issue applies not only to noise but also to other aspects of image quality.

The issue is that you have people viewing images on a wide range of screen types. You still have some using older low resolution monitors. Some might be using what is essentially a 1080i laptop screen. Others might be using a 1920x1080 24 or 27 or 30 inch monitor. Still others are using higher resolution screens or larger screens. The result is that, while an image prepared for the web might look great on one screen, it can look awful on another.

I know that I do not have nearly the skill at preparing images for the web as do most who have posted in this thread, but having images look great for the web has never been a priority for me. Over the years, I've discovered too many times when people have used my images illegally and without permission. I finally decided that, for me, the solution I liked best was to use relatively small images (usually only 700 pixels on the long end) that have a fairly high level of jpeg compression. Having done so, I know that I can't stop others from using my images, but there isn't much that they are going to be doing with a 700 pixel long and highly compressed image. I do understand that, by doing things the way that I choose to do it, the images are not going to look nearly as impressive as they might otherwise look, but my purpose for images on the web is only to give people a general idea of what the image looks like, and my highest priority is how the images look in print, and, as several others have said, in print, much/most of the noise that looks awful at larger magnifications on the screen disappears.

That said, I'm really enjoying looking at the work of those who have posted in this thread. Generally, I don't shoot my 7D at ISO higher than about 1600. The reason for not going higher is that, for the shooting I do, the images lose visual appeal to me for reasons other than noise when the light is such that I would need to go higher than 1600. And, at up to 1600, I find that the noise is not an issue without having to use extraordinary means to deal with it. But, after seeing the techniques that some have used at even higher ISOs in this thread, I think that I may give some higher ISO shots a go and try using some of the workflow suggestions from those have posted in this thread. Many thanks to those have shared them.

Les



Aug 27, 2012 at 04:22 PM
John_T
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · How noisy is your 7D?


...and just to take the viewing differences a step further, I had been using a Colormunki spectrophotometer puck to calibrate my Eizo CG monitors. After recently reading a bunch of stuff on calibration I hadn't considered before, I just changed to the i1Display Pro colorimeter, and low and behold, found all kinds of details in shadows and a bunch of other goodies. I think when judging and processing images, one has to be very differentiating before arriving at conclusions as to what is what regarding one's own or others images.


Aug 27, 2012 at 05:39 PM
racoll
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · How noisy is your 7D?


pKai wrote:
Here's an ISO 2000 shot of a difficult partially sunlit, partially shadowed subject. LR4 work:

0. About 40% crop (60% remains)
1. Contrast +21
2. Highlights -62
3. Shadows +26
4. Whites +29
5. Clarity +40
6 Saturation +10
7.Sharpening +25
8. Luminance LR 40
9. Color NR 35

100% crop below to show worst noise area in OOF shadow.



Wow, what a beautiful shot of the lion! There is some really impressive work in this thread. Thank you all for sharing your images and tips.

Andy



Aug 27, 2012 at 08:36 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · How noisy is your 7D?


n0b0 wrote:
One thing I noticed though, on a display with big pixel pitch, such as a 55" 1080p plasma HDTV as an extreme example, the noise WILL be noticeable. Or maybe it's because the TV has less colour gamut? Perhaps that explains why some people seem more critical than others about noise.

This image looks like a slightly grainy B&W pic on my calibrated 27" 2540x1440 IPS monitor but when I streamed it to my 1080p TV, I could REALLY see the noise.



Yes, pixel pitch can have a great bearing on the apparent graininess of the image. Even a low ISO image can look terrible on a monitor with large pixel pitch. I have a 24" 1900 x 1200 monitor and when I started using it for photo processing I could never understand why my images looked worse on this than my 17" laptop with the same resolution. Then I realised it was simply the much larger pixel pitch, as the images looked fine on my 21" monitor running 1920 x 1440. Working on a monitor that is 22"+ and only 1920 x 1080 is something I would urge everybody to avoid like the plague.

Best monitor at the moment for photo work is a high end 27" running 2560 x 1440 as this has the smallest pixel pitch of any desktop monitor.



Aug 27, 2012 at 10:19 PM
Liquidstone
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · How noisy is your 7D?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes, pixel pitch can have a great bearing on the apparent graininess of the image. Even a low ISO image can look terrible on a monitor with large pixel pitch. I have a 24" 1900 x 1200 monitor and when I started using it for photo processing I could never understand why my images looked worse on this than my 17" laptop with the same resolution. Then I realised it was simply the much larger pixel pitch, as the images looked fine on my 21" monitor running 1920 x 1440. Working on a monitor that is 22"+ and only
...Show more


Just to share, I do my PP work now on an Asus Laptop (i7-2630QM 2.0GHz, 8GB DDR3, GTX 560M, 15.6 in Full HD screen) + an external 24" - 1920x1200 IPS LCD, both calibrated with DT94).

I process the photo on the IPS screen (with a larger pixel pitch), while I use the laptop screen to park my tool windows. After processing, I drag the photo from the IPS screen to see if the sharpening/colors are still ok on the TN laptop screen with very fine pixel pitch. If the images look ok on both screens, then I consider the PP work done.

BTW, laptops of this specs or better can now crunch full HD video very well, even with multi layers/edits in Premiere.

I think my days of being a desktop user are now gone.



Aug 28, 2012 at 01:31 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · How noisy is your 7D?


Liquidstone wrote:
I think my days of being a desktop user are now gone.


I'd love a Mac book pro retina display, if it weren't an apple product.

I believe when windows 8 ships with support for better graphics scaling, we will start to see 2560 x 1440/1600 even in non-apple laptops.

My current Dell laptop has a very high quality IPS HD screen with more importantly 96% AdobeRGB gamut for photo work. Alas the new Ivy Bridge versions have gone back to a third rate screen making them a poor choice for photo work now.



Aug 28, 2012 at 01:37 AM
pKai
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · How noisy is your 7D?


Liquidstone wrote:
Just to share, I do my PP work now on an Asus Laptop (i7-2630QM 2.0GHz, 8GB DDR3, GTX 560M, 15.6 in Full HD screen) + an external 24" - 1920x1200 IPS LCD, both calibrated with DT94).

I process the photo on the IPS screen (with a larger pixel pitch), while I use the laptop screen to park my tool windows. After processing, I drag the photo from the IPS screen to see if the sharpening/colors are still ok on the TN laptop screen with very fine pixel pitch. If the images look ok on both screens, then I consider the PP
...Show more

I have that 2.2 GHz version of that same laptop. I gave up my desktop too. My whole "lab" now travels with me. Its nice not to come back from a trip with a 5 day backlog of post processing. A little every day is much better for me.

When home (hardly ever), I do have a 24" HP 1920x1200 external monitor, but I'm just as happy doing post on the laptop's 15.6" 1920x1200 screen alone.... The extra real estate of the 24" is nice, though...



Aug 28, 2012 at 01:41 AM
 

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Liquidstone
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · How noisy is your 7D?


Wahoowa wrote:
How noisy is my 7D?

It's pretty quiet, especially when I put on a shelf and let it sit there.

Sorry, couldn't resist.



It's actually noisier now.

It gets quiet before after spewing out 15-18 RAWs. Now, it goes tack-tack-tack at 8 fps almost forever (actually, 22 - 28 RAWs depending on my CF card, ISO used, and detail of scene).



Aug 28, 2012 at 02:19 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · How noisy is your 7D?


pKai wrote:
When home (hardly ever), I do have a 24" HP 1920x1200 external monitor, but I'm just as happy doing post on the laptop's 15.6" 1920x1200 screen alone.... The extra real estate of the 24" is nice, though...


What extra real estate? Exactly the same



Aug 28, 2012 at 04:28 AM
Jeff
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · How noisy is your 7D?


Some very nice images posted here. It's interesting to note that the images offered as illustrations in this thread have mostly green OOF backgrounds, probably the channel least susceptible to having poor luminance noise characteristics. I know that with my 7D (and virtually any Bayer sensor out there), the blue and red channels were far more problematic in regard to luminance noise (even at low ISO), especially so for mine in images with lots of blue sky. Perhaps I had a dud (Canon didn't think so), or perhaps my lack of skill with noise suppression via software simply didn't allow me to get the best the camera had to offer...


Aug 28, 2012 at 05:21 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · How noisy is your 7D?


Jeff wrote:
Some very nice images posted here. It's interesting to note that the images offered as illustrations in this thread have mostly green OOF backgrounds, probably the channel least susceptible to having poor luminance noise characteristics. I know that with my 7D (and virtually any Bayer sensor out there), the blue and red channels were far more problematic in regard to luminance noise (even at low ISO), especially so for mine in images with lots of blue sky. Perhaps I had a dud (Canon didn't think so), or perhaps my lack of skill with noise suppression via software simply didn't allow
...Show more

Here you go Jeff, here's a shot with a lot of blue sky at ISO 400: first the processed image then 100% crop from LR with no NR applied





  Canon EOS 7D    EF300mm f/2.8L IS USM +1.4x lens    420mm    f/4.5    1/2500s    400 ISO    +1.0 EV  









Aug 28, 2012 at 10:32 AM
PetKal
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · How noisy is your 7D?


How noisy is my 7D ? Very noisy.

Edited on Aug 28, 2012 at 08:19 PM · View previous versions



Aug 28, 2012 at 12:07 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · How noisy is your 7D?


Here is a mix of colors at ISO 1600, with slight processing



ISO 400, again lots of color, at a 6s exposure, partial crop...



When there is alot of dynamic range, the shadows do suffer a bit. This is ISO 3200, with the shadows brought up for effect.




Aug 28, 2012 at 12:53 PM
pKai
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · How noisy is your 7D?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
What extra real estate? Exactly the same



Adding a second monitor of the same resolution DOUBLES the amount of available real estate, doesn't it?



Aug 28, 2012 at 03:38 PM
n0b0
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · How noisy is your 7D?


Now let's talk over VERY long exposure noise.

26 minutes exposure test, ISO100 with zero Luminance and Chrominance NR settings.






100% crop






100% crop Screen capture inside DPP






As you can see, lots of noise, though for some reason, the noise I see in DPP looks more red and blue than the white dot noise after I converted the RAW to JPG.

Is it normal to get this much noise?



Aug 28, 2012 at 03:45 PM
abqnmusa
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · How noisy is your 7D?


yeah, my 7D always gave white spots on long exposures.
I found white dot noise hard to remove with the 7D
even with long exposure noise reduction white dots occur

white dots did not happen with 5D II in similar situations
sensor size matters for long exposures



Aug 28, 2012 at 04:34 PM
n0b0
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · How noisy is your 7D?


Yeah, many of these "white dots" are almost pure white, impossible to clean.

I'm guessing they're hot pixels? They're different from the usual noise grain.



Aug 28, 2012 at 05:16 PM
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