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Archive 2012 · Can't decide on full frame move
  
 
Derek Weston
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Can't decide on full frame move


(this is going on both canon and nikon forums)

For the past few years I've been grabbing some nice shots from the rebel series doing landscapes. Gone from newbie to at least respectable. Tokina 11-16 and Canon 15-85 have served me well. I think I've earned the "right" to go full frame.

But here's my problem issue:

5D2 + Tilt-shift + good live view
VS.
d800e + amazing quality DR/Resolution + 14-24mm

If it weren't for the tilt-shift and good live view features it'd be an easy decision. (I have no brand allegiance)

So this is what I gotta figure out:

1) How much am I gaining with tilt-shift lenses in terms of high-quality depth of field? As compared to d800 with 14-24?
2) How much of a struggle am I in for trying to shoot in darkness with the lousy live-view of the d800? I am a big fan of dark sky shooting, and intend to do plenty of this. (of course Nikon's sensor should kick arse here) Will I quickly find a work around? I mean... if I find a comfortable work around quick enough, great. If it costs me a lot of shots... that's not so great.

Am I going to have to rent to figure out? Probably be 500 + to rent that gear for a respectable amount of time... that's what I don't like.

Decisions, decisions.

The main thing that keeps me coming back to canon considerations are liveview and tilt-shift... but do they provide enough value to keep me from jumping on the d800 bandwagon? (and while canon has a better overall lens lineup...for what I shoot -- mostly landscape -- nikon is fine, minus ts-e offerings)



Aug 14, 2012 at 12:17 AM
Two23
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Can't decide on full frame move


I do a lot of landscape type shots. How important are lens movements to me? I'm still shooting 4x5. I see them as critical. I nearly switched from Nikon to Canon because of that 17mm t/s lens they have. I still haven't ruled it out. that said, one reason I have not gone with the Canon and a FX is with DX there is already plenty of DoF. More than with FX, and several stops more than 4x5.


Kent in SD



Aug 14, 2012 at 12:48 AM
ja_joyce
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Can't decide on full frame move


Nikon makes a sweet 24mm TS. Best of both worlds?



Aug 14, 2012 at 01:35 AM
CGrindahl
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Can't decide on full frame move


I can't answer your question but if you buy gear used and are careful in shopping, you would likely be able to buy gear and test if for a few months without incurring a significant loss. That is especially true with the Canon 5D Mark2 whose value has certainly taken a serious hit with the arrival of the Mark3. If you want version 2 of the 24mm tilt-shift you'd still pay a pretty penny since it is the latest version, but then it will likely hold most of its value as well since it is such a specialized lens.

A good friend has said he would love to own a tilt-shift 24 but since his budget can't tolerate the hit, he uses a 24-70 f/2.8 and produces stunning work that he regularly sells. Don't set yourself up by believing you'll only be happy with the latest and greatest. Just keep shooting. I sold all my L lenses and am now shooting with thirty year old MF lenses made by Nikon and am having a blast. I'm very content with my 12 megapixel D700 and I produce passable work. The pleasure of photography comes in many ways.

Good luck sorting this all out.



Aug 14, 2012 at 07:12 AM
RRRoger
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Can't decide on full frame move


I've had a 5D2 and prefer the D800 in every way.
As for the D800 LCD.
I find it adequate and do not remember the 5D2 being better.
When needed, I use a CaVision magnifying loop or external monitor.
I sometimes use the exceptional 14-24 for Landscapes and Architecture,
but generally use the 28-300 for everything.



Aug 17, 2012 at 01:07 PM
Frank_Maiello
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Can't decide on full frame move


I donít own a wide T/S lens, but Iíd like to--not so much to control depth of field--but to control vertical lines. The 14-24 gives me plenty of DoF when I stop down, but in order to have plumb vertical lines, the horizon must be in the exact middle of the frame. How big of a deal is that to you?

Live view may leave a few things to be desired, but I have no problems using it on a D700, even at night with a 300 f/2.8 + 2x TC (600 f/5.6). I canít imagine the D800 is any worse.



Aug 17, 2012 at 02:22 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Can't decide on full frame move


I think it comes down to lens choices, honestly. You have to ask yourself Is the 17 TS-E worth the switch over to Canon? I would at least wait until Photokina to see what is on the horizon. I am pretty sure both manufacturers have bodies to be released..


Aug 17, 2012 at 04:10 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



SoundHound
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Can't decide on full frame move


I have both systems and would like to sell out of my Canon gear. But the Canon TSEs and the Canon Fish Eyes keep me from selling. You can Shift in Photoshop at the cost of pixel interpolation but you sure can't can't tilt.

I find myself reaching for the 17mm TSE before the 14-24. But I or others can sell you the inconvenient adaptor to, manually, adapt the Nikkor 14-24 to the Canon body. So that maybe one plausible compromise.

As "Sweet" as the Nikkor 24mm TSE might be it's no match for the Canon and will not adjust on both axis simultaneously. In fact the 17mm TSE with a 1.4x TC should equal the Nikkor 24mm in FL and IQ.
You loose a stop but get an, equivalent, larger image circle for more extreme movements and reduction of extreme edge fuzziness Unfortunately, the Nikkor FE is also not equal to the Canon FEs. Their new FE zoom is a brilliant combo.

Maybe Canon will bring out an answer to the D800-soon? The 36 FF pixel density is not unusually high for a crop sensor (an 18 MP 1.5x crop has the same pixel density as a 45 Mp FF sensor). It's for sure that Canon will not sell many/any 36Mp (+?) FF 1Dx s bodies for $7 or 8K.



Aug 17, 2012 at 04:18 PM
Chestnut
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Can't decide on full frame move


First of all, there is no "right" to go FX. You haven't "earned" it, since it really isn't needed :P

FX vs DX is more of a need-based issue rather than a right, unless you're talking about finances! But I'm sure I don't have to lecture you on DX vs FX moves and needs, as I'm sure you've heard it (or can find it) in the forums.

If you want to go FX, and want a D800, I'd say go for it! The image quality is amazing. The 14-24 is a great lens, as is the 24mm PC-E (one of Nikon's latest tilt-shift). I rarely use tilt AND shift at the same time for doing regular work, so the lack of movement options between the two doesn't affect me too much. Yes, I have run across an occasion where I wish it moved more like a super rotator, but it wasn't critical. The 24 PC-E really is a gorgeous lens. If you want D800 and tilt-shift, that is a highly recommended option.




Aug 17, 2012 at 04:26 PM
ja_joyce
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Can't decide on full frame move


SoundHound wrote:
As "Sweet" as the Nikkor 24mm TSE might be it's no match for the Canon and will not adjust on both axis simultaneously...



I'm not sure I follow that. What won't the Nikon do that the Canon will?



Aug 18, 2012 at 01:54 AM
SoundHound
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Can't decide on full frame move


The 24mm Nikon has less IQ than the Canon (since it's a much older design) and cannot be adjusted in both axis simultaneously and independently. Also Nikon doesn't make a 17mm TSE


Aug 18, 2012 at 02:36 AM
ja_joyce
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Can't decide on full frame move


SoundHound wrote:
The 24mm Nikon has less IQ than the Canon (since it's a much older design) and cannot be adjusted in both axis simultaneously and independently. Also Nikon doesn't make a 17mm TSE



Are we talking about the same lens? The Nikon 24mm PC-E came out around 2008 and does in fact tilt and shift simultaneously and independently. I don't know how its IQ stacks up against the Canon, but as far as Nikon lenses go it is outstanding. There is a much older 28mm PC lens that is shift only, no tilt/swing.




Aug 18, 2012 at 05:22 AM
ausemmao
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Can't decide on full frame move


ja_joyce wrote:
Are we talking about the same lens? The Nikon 24mm PC-E came out around 2008 and does in fact tilt and shift simultaneously and independently. I don't know how its IQ stacks up against the Canon, but as far as Nikon lenses go it is outstanding. There is a much older 28mm PC lens that is shift only, no tilt/swing.



The 24 PC-E is optically very close to the TS-E II, having access to and shooting on both (the area you see the difference is when combining large tilts and shifts, which isn't often done (especially given the mechanical limitations of the PC-E). Where the PC-E really falls down is mechanically - it doesn't have the fully independent tilt and shift axes of the TS-E, and it is much easier to inadvertently have tilt where the photographer thinks the lens is set to zero as the locking knobs need periodic maintenance.

There's been a lot of bullshit talked about tilt shift lenses online by people repeating second and third hand 'knowledge' while never having even touched the lenses and somehow it's become one of those 'truthy' myths, in no small part due to the noise around the D800 releases. Look at pictures taken with the lens, that will answer questions about how good it is far better than forum warriors will.

And yeah - it's not a 'much older design' (Nikon couldn't have PC-E lenses until G lenses started coming out) than the TS-E II, it's barely a year older.



Aug 18, 2012 at 03:21 PM





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