Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens? - FM Forums

Home · Register · Search · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

FM Forum Rules
Canon SLRs, primes, and zooms lenses reviews

FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell
1 2 3 end

Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it th...

Andrew J
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #1 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

uz2work wrote:
I'm guessing that some of the factors to which others have pointed are more important, but, as I was thinking about the desirability of a 500/4.5 lens, Canon has not done that desirability any favors with the direction to which it has gone with its 2 most recent camera body introductions.

With the 5D Mark III and the the 1DX both being full frame cameras with low pixel density, 500 mm doesn't do the job it would have done on a 1.3 crop higher pixel density sensor, such as on a 1D Mark IV, or even on a full frame sensor with higher pixel density. Because of the need to be able to put more pixels on the subject, many long lens users who are using these bodies are now moving toward 600mm lenses (or even the 800/5.6), and I'm sure that many who are using 500 mm lenses with those new bodies are finding that they need to use extenders more often. But Canon's design decisions that now limit AF to f5.6 or larger maximum lens aperture means that, with an f4.5 lens, even a 1.4x extender won't work without either taping pins or using a presumably lower quality non-reporting extender and likely accepting degraded AF performance. Thus, those two bodies are kind of a double whammy against an f4.5 lens. And, while 500 mm still does offer excellent reach on a 1.6 crop high pixel density body like a 7D, I'm guessing not as many 7D owners have the budget for even a $3000 lens and are more likely to be using one the more modestly priced 400 mm alternatives which still offer very good reach when used on a 7D.

Les

All that and why not just say the highest vote you will give a non-IS lens is 3.5/10 stars?

Aug 13, 2012 at 02:19 AM

Imagemaster
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #2 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Andrew J wrote:
uz2work wrote:
I'm guessing that some of the factors to which others have pointed are more important, but, as I was thinking about the desirability of a 500/4.5 lens, Canon has not done that desirability any favors with the direction to which it has gone with its 2 most recent camera body introductions.

With the 5D Mark III and the the 1DX both being full frame cameras with low pixel density, 500 mm doesn't do the job it would have done on a 1.3 crop higher pixel density sensor, such as on a 1D Mark IV, or even on a full frame sensor with higher pixel density. Because of the need to be able to put more pixels on the subject, many long lens users who are using these bodies are now moving toward 600mm lenses (or even the 800/5.6), and I'm sure that many who are using 500 mm lenses with those new bodies are finding that they need to use extenders more often. But Canon's design decisions that now limit AF to f5.6 or larger maximum lens aperture means that, with an f4.5 lens, even a 1.4x extender won't work without either taping pins or using a presumably lower quality non-reporting extender and likely accepting degraded AF performance. Thus, those two bodies are kind of a double whammy against an f4.5 lens. And, while 500 mm still does offer excellent reach on a 1.6 crop high pixel density body like a 7D, I'm guessing not as many 7D owners have the budget for even a $3000 lens and are more likely to be using one the more modestly priced 400 mm alternatives which still offer very good reach when used on a 7D.

Les

All that and why not just say the highest vote you will give a non-IS lens is 3.5/10 stars?

Probably because his reply is more intelligent, and this thread is not just about IS or non-IS lenses.

Aug 13, 2012 at 02:38 AM

RCicala
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #3 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

I deal in used lenses as part of my business and one thing I've found is for unique lenses like this (even supertelephotos in general) is timing is everything -- but you never know when the right time is. There are always dozens of people looking for 70-200 f2.8s, etc. but not more unique pieces of glass.

Right now a lot of people have just dropped cash upgrading to a new body. There are more used 500 f/4 IS on the market as some people are upgrading to the 500 II. (We've seen those going for $5200 - $5500 lately, not over $6k as someone mentioned). Football season is about to start so 70-200 f/2.8s, 300 f/2.8 and 400 f/2.8 have a lot of people's attention. In another month or two when bird migrations start, etc. longer lenses will be in bigger demand.

With a lens like this I'd put it in the closet and try again in 4 or 6 weeks before I'd lower the price, which seems quite reasonable.

Aug 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM

trenchmonkey
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #4 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Well said, Roger.

While you're waiting on the migrations, Ron...design an adapter that'll
let this AF on a Nikon body!

You'd double the potential purchasing pool

Hell, I might take it.

Aug 13, 2012 at 11:49 AM

bipock
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #5 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned (or at least I didn't see it) the economy. Alot of people are still struggling to make ends meet and that includes some photographers. Alot of high dollar items are teking longer to sell than they normally would, your lens included.

I would do what Roger said - place it in a closet and wait a couple months. In the mean time, you could get that grimes inside of the glass cleaned. For me, that would terminate interest in the lens regardless of whether or not it affected the picture.

Aug 13, 2012 at 12:18 PM

PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #6 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

RCicala wrote:
There are more used 500 f/4 IS on the market as some people are upgrading to the 500 II. (We've seen those going for $5200 - $5500 lately, not over $6k as someone mentioned). .

"Lately" meaning a couple of years ago ?

Check eBay, FM B&S, KEH. Excellent condition specimens go for $6,000 +.

$5,200-5,500 for a non beat up 500 f/4 is either ancient history or a statistical anomaly of today.
Also, you can speak to Dan aka Voodoo.....he knows the market of those lenses really well.

Come to think of it, Jim Colwell keeps a good data base with lens sales.....it would be helpful to see what his data say.

Aug 13, 2012 at 12:26 PM

RCicala
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #7 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Peter, I was referring to the 6 copies we sold in 2012: all went for a bit less than we've gotten historically (which was closer to $6k). But I didn't check eBay prices. I looked at Jim's June data bat that was mostly reflecting sales in 2011, and back then we were getting $5800-$6000.

Aug 13, 2012 at 02:11 PM

PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #8 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

A few months ago there seems to have been a peak.....the price of LN 500 MkIs was pushing towards $7,000, and there was a number of them on eBay listed for something like $7,200 buy-it-now price . However, since April/May there has been a bit of a cooldown period, I think as a result of an increasing number of good lenses hitting the market.

I fact, an odd trend has developed whereby an excellent 500 f/4 MkI would tend to fetch as much money, if not more, than comparable condition 400 f/2.8 IS MkI and 600 f/4 MkI. Naturally, all that has been demand/supply driven.

However, be that as it may, what I think is most relevant to Ron's concerns is that there is still a significant price gap between his lens and similarly well preserved 500 f/4 MkIs.

One thing that we should keep in mind is that one can not have their cake and eat it too: if 500 f/4.5L was still supported by Canon, and if the lens had IS, then good specimens would probably sell for very much more than $3,100.

Aug 13, 2012 at 03:15 PM

jaybrams
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #9 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Try listing on www.birdphotographers.net. This "targeted marketing" will put it in front of eyeballs always looking for reach at a reasonable price!

Aug 13, 2012 at 03:42 PM

uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #10 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

PetKal wrote:
A few months ago there seems to have been a peak.....the price of LN 500 MkIs was pushing towards $7,000, and there was a number of them on eBay listed for something like $7,200 buy-it-now price . However, since April/May there has been a bit of a cooldown period, I think as a result of an increasing number of good lenses hitting the market.

I fact, an odd trend has developed whereby an excellent 500 f/4 MkI would tend to fetch as much money, if not more, than comparable condition 400 f/2.8 IS MkI and 600 f/4 MkI. Naturally, all that has been demand/supply driven.

For quite a while the supply on the market for used 500/4 lenses was virtually non-existent, while demand on the used market was high. I think that there were two major factors that accounted for high demand and dearth of supply. One was that it was very difficult to get a new 500/4 because of Canon's tsunami production-related issues and because Canon was winding down production related to the introduction of the 500/4 II. And another factor was that many who might otherwise have been selling their 500/4 lenses in anticipation of buying a 500/4 II decided, instead, to hold on to them because of the vast price difference between the original version and the version II. That high demand and shortage of supply on the used market led to a major spike in used prices.

More recently, I think that the demand for used copies of the 500/4 has continued to be strong, but their has been a spike in the supply from those who sold their copies because they "had to have" a 500/4 II in spite of its lofty price or, perhaps, a 600/4 II. However, again because of the big difference in price between the original version and the version II, I'd anticipate that, after the spike of those who had to have a version II clears the market, the demand for the original version should remain high and the supply should be relatively tight for quite a while. Thus, while I'd expect to see fluctuations, I'd expect prices to settle somewhere near where they are now or, perhaps, just a bit higher.

Les

Aug 13, 2012 at 03:47 PM

marcus riley
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #11 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Wow, a lot of good advice here. I really just wanted to repeat what some others have said. I think that the comment about timing is true and hopefully you're able to wait for the right time.

I also agree that some sample pictures would be helpful. My logical side loves to see no-nonsense pictures the condition of the lenses I'm interested in. My emotional/romantic side, however, can easily get swept up by beautiful pictures (pictures of the lens, and sample pictures from it).

Sometimes, I even keep revisiting an ad for something I could never afford, simply because the sample shots are pleasing and beautiful. If it is an item I can afford, shots like that are usually enough to push me over the edge, whereas some nice product shots may not get my motor running enough to justify dipping in to my savings.

You're a salesman, at least temporarily, so think about how to position this lens and who might be interested. I think a lot of serious shooters, who have $1000s to spend, are either justifying the v2 lenses coming out, or sweeping up the v1's that are being upgraded. I don't think those are the buyers your aiming for. But you're lens is a special item that I think would appeal to a younger (financially 'thinner') crowd that could never come up with the $6000 for a telephoto.

In a way, I'm part of that group. I could never buy a lens that costs more than my last 2 cars combined. But your lens is close enough that maybe I could sell something, move funds around, and suddenly be able to justify this lens at this price. I regret that I'm not in a situation where I need such a lens, because I do see this as a great deal and wish I had a reason to justify it.

I think showing people what this lens can do for the price is a great next step to get the blood pumping. Also, it's good to show people why this lens is worth more than some of the decent telephoto zooms Sigma has come out with. I'm a person who bought a 150-500mm OS because 500mm f6.3 with OS and decent image quality is a lot of lens for $800 used. You're not trying to convince 500f4v2 users to save money with your lens, you're trying to up sell people like me to spend more because it's worth more than a 'budget' telephoto. Some samples will help you out.

Aug 13, 2012 at 04:47 PM

Michael H
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #12 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Interesting thread. As has been mentioned her ea few times, I think we are just in a "down" period for sales of used equipment in general. It seems to me that sales seem to run in cycles around here. There are times when things are selling well and for reasonable prices, there are simply other times that we hit the low point of the cycle. I really think we are there now.

Heck, look at other items as well...1D3s, 1DS3, other glass, Nikon bodies and glass...all seem to be selling (actually NOT selling) for very low prices.

Hang in there and the tides will turn. Buyers market at the moment and the only thing going quickly are those items priced well below market.

Aug 13, 2012 at 05:03 PM

Michael H
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #13 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Interesting thread. As has been mentioned her ea few times, I think we are just in a "down" period for sales of used equipment in general. It seems to me that sales seem to run in cycles around here. There are times when things are selling well and for reasonable prices, there are simply other times that we hit the low point of the cycle. I really think we are there now.

Heck, look at other items as well...1D3s, 1DS3, other glass, Nikon bodies and glass...all seem to be selling (actually NOT selling) for very low prices.

Hang in there and the tides will turn. Buyers market at the moment and the only thing going quickly are those items priced well below market.

Aug 13, 2012 at 05:03 PM

retrofocus
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #14 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Michael H wrote:
Interesting thread. As has been mentioned her ea few times, I think we are just in a "down" period for sales of used equipment in general. It seems to me that sales seem to run in cycles around here. There are times when things are selling well and for reasonable prices, there are simply other times that we hit the low point of the cycle. I really think we are there now.

Heck, look at other items as well...1D3s, 1DS3, other glass, Nikon bodies and glass...all seem to be selling (actually NOT selling) for very low prices.

Hang in there and the tides will turn. Buyers market at the moment and the only thing going quickly are those items priced well below market.

I observe the used camera gear market for a while now, and I see that prices for good used (L quality) Canon lens glass has severley increased. You will rarely find even a average condition L lens in a used market place discounted for more than 10% of the actual pricing of a new copy. More common are margins below 10% for L lenses not even in the best condition. I stick to my principle only to consider buying a used lens if it is priced at least 20% less than the actual new lens price (because I assume that in many cases the lens originally was purchased for much less than the actual price rating, so the seller gains already quite a bit from this difference alone). Patience can pay off - it just happened to me with an excellent copy of a 14/2.8 II lens from a reputable seller. But this was a unique lucky deal in the current times.

Aug 13, 2012 at 05:22 PM

michaels photo
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #15 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

I have looked at it and drooled several times!

For me it is simple, I do not have the $$$!

The Price is right!

Good Luck on your sale!

Aug 13, 2012 at 05:30 PM

surfnron
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #16 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Thanx everyone for the continued discussion.

It hit me that since I had not MA'ed my new foo correctly, that I hadn't MA'ed the older 500 correctly. so I did that yesterday, and it turned out to be + 10 - not + 13.

This morning I did a "live" ma. I went to the local lake and found a cooperative Great Blue Heron and took some shots at +9, +10, and +11. Not quite as "scientific" as on a tripod with a proper target, etc., but I like the real world results.
Here are 2 copies of the same shot, one with sharpening, and one straight out of the camera - only cropped and resized, (@ 66% so it would not be too large). I don't think it looks bad, and it does sharpen up nicely. How about it?

2013 © surfnron

2013 © surfnron

Unsharpened - exif attached

2013 © surfnron

2013 © surfnron

Sharpened

Aug 14, 2012 at 08:01 PM

cineski
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #17 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Where in ABQ?

mco_970 wrote:
Midwest Camera still services this lens. As well, I had my copy of it CLA'd in Albuquerque recently.

Aug 14, 2012 at 08:22 PM

Andrew J
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #18 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

roboticspro wrote:
Hi Ron,

surfnron wrote:
[Thanx Mitesh. There are at least 2 places that will work on these lenses. The one Michelle mentioned in NM, and another in New England - I will try to find the name.

Ron

You want to try these folks (Mark and Keith Fortin co-owners):

Midstate Camera Repair
389 Warwick Avenue
Warwick, RI 02888
(401) 467-7390

http://www.midstatecamerarepair.com/

Regards,

Edd

They are great guys but to be clear do not have the software needed to calibrate non-IS superteles.

Aug 14, 2012 at 08:43 PM

mco_970
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #19 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

cineski wrote:
Where in ABQ?

mco_970 wrote:
Midwest Camera still services this lens. As well, I had my copy of it CLA'd in Albuquerque recently.

I think it's called APT.

It was around the same price as Midstate, and The Monkey said he had heard good things about APT. They did a good job. Mostly I wanted the lube service done on mine as it was due, and I didn't have to ship the lens. It does give me peace of mind to know the USM motor on mine is in good shape & well maintained.

Hopefully it will last me 10 years.

Aug 14, 2012 at 09:29 PM

mco_970
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #20 · Whats wrong with my "for sale"add - or is it the lens?

Andrew J wrote:

They are great guys but to be clear do not have the software needed to calibrate non-IS superteles.

Andrew - thanks for posting that! I thought they could do calibration... Interesting!!

Aug 14, 2012 at 09:30 PM

1 2 3 end
FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 end