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PetKal Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #1 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. It is interesting that both Aden Camera (Toronto) and Adorama are offering similarly valued incentives on 300 f/2.8 IS MkII. Aden's price is $6.734 CDN. Adorama is throwing in 2xTC MkIII with their 300 f/2.8 IS MkII, for a grand total price of $7,249 US. It will certainly be interesting to see the price trend of all MKII supertelephoto lenses. If we go by the 800L price history, the prices are not likely to budge, in fact, they might only creep up. If so, that would then suggest that Canon might be basing their prices on a significantly reduced production volume of their entire supertelephoto line, compared to the MkI generation lenses. Aug 11, 2012 at 12:46 PM

Monito Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #2 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. ... or that the original series R&D costs were cheaper and have long ago been paid off. Aug 11, 2012 at 12:49 PM

PetKal Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #3 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. I kinda doubt that. If anything, those MkI supertelephoto lenses development costs might have been higher because today Canon claims to be much more thrifty and cost control orientated company than what they were in the 90s. However, higher or lower, the development cost (and other production costs) could be recouped as well as requisite profit generated in two fundamental manners: high sales volume-lower per unit earnings, or low sales volume-high per unit earnings. Because the lenses are priced the way they are, I believe they have chosen the latter model: lower sales volume, higher earnings per lens. Aug 11, 2012 at 01:30 PM

jojosung Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #4 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. another thing to think about too.. is that ppl who are interested in the super telephoto already gotten the MKI and find it hard to justify upgrading to mkii which make the volume even smaller Aug 11, 2012 at 01:53 PM

kaycephoto Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #5 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. PetKal wrote: However, higher or lower, the development cost (and other production costs) could be recouped as well as requisite profit generated in two fundamental manners: high sales volume-lower per unit earnings, or low sales volume-high per unit earnings. Because the lenses are priced the way they are, I believe they have chosen the latter model: lower sales volume, higher earnings per lens. jojosung wrote: another thing to think about too.. is that ppl who are interested in the super telephoto already gotten the MKI and find it hard to justify upgrading to mkii which make the volume even smaller I agree with both of you.. the vast majority of the working sports/press pros that I know have indeed not upgraded their telephoto lenses to the mkII versions.. Aug 11, 2012 at 01:57 PM

Yakim Peled Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. Dear lord, thank you for what we received today. We hope that you'll continue to shower us with your endless blessings. Happy shooting, Yakim. Aug 11, 2012 at 02:24 PM

Chumma Offline • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #7 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. Monito wrote: ... or that the original series R&D costs were cheaper and have long ago been paid off. R&D expenses for a year are fully charged against revenue (written-off) each year, and they are not capitalized. If you look at the R&D expenses of Canon, you will see it is almost consistent every year in terms of % of revenue, at about 8 – 9% of revenue. So, when they develop a new lens, it doesn’t mean the R&D expense for that particular lens is carried forward for a number of years and recovered each year. Let’s assume Canon spent a million dollars in R&D expense over the past couple of years in designing and developing the 24-70 MKII. That amount was already written-off in the past. When Canon starts producing that lens commercially, the unit cost of a copy produced in 2012 would include a portion of R&D expense spent in 2012 for whatever purpose, allocated on a rational basis. PetKal wrote: Because the lenses are priced the way they are, I believe they have chosen the latter model: lower sales volume, higher earnings per lens. I doubt that. Once sales reach the break-even level, the cost of producing an additional unit is only the ‘marginal cost’, which typically is additional material + additional labor + additional overhead (no additional fixed cost). The profit margin on an additional units will be sales price minus marginal cost. So, if there is market, it is always advantageous to produce more and sell more. Aug 11, 2012 at 02:32 PM

onegreatcity Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #8 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. Slightly off topic here Peter but do you shop at Aden Camera? Handy as they are for us out here in the colonies (local shops will usually try to price match) they don't strike me as your 'go to' place. Back to the topic, are all MKII versions vastly superior to their MK1 ancestors or will working photographers continue to get paid using what they already own? Aug 11, 2012 at 02:41 PM

PetKal Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #9 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. onegreatcity wrote: Slightly off topic here Peter but do you shop at Aden Camera? Handy as they are for us out here in the colonies (local shops will usually try to price match) they don't strike me as your 'go to' place. Back to the topic, are all MKII versions vastly superior to their MK1 ancestors or will working photographers continue to get paid using what they already own? Cam, Aden Camera folks are OK, I bought my first 800L from them. They also try to keep at least one of each big lenses and other high end gear in stock at all times which is appreciated by pro photographers, newspapers etc. Traditionally I have been going to Henry's for years, the only problem there is that they never carry any expensive items in stock, so it is always a special order, and their prices are the highest of the bunch thus one has to negotiate them down. I do not think one can use "vast superiority" in a global way here. For example, one could say that 400 MkII is "vastly superior" to 400 MkI handling-wise, but the MkII performance is not much better otherwise, such as IQ and AF response. Aug 11, 2012 at 03:16 PM

mogud Offline • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #10 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. I have bought virtually all my equipment from Aden in Toronto and highly recommend them. Prices are very fair, if not better than fair and all the competition is very well aware of who Aden is. Aden's three stores are not the glitz and glitter of Vistek and Henry's/Headshots but I would rather have all that expense of fancy stores and a lot of fancy stores passed onto better pricing. Aug 11, 2012 at 06:13 PM

Deborah Kolt Offline • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #11 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. As a sports shooter, I find the series II superior in the following: 1. weight (Lighter weight for me means quicker to swing around and react to changes on the field. Easier to get shots I missed with the heavier models.) 2. sharpness (I've had to tone down my sharpening in post.) 3. handling of heat wave shimmer coming off of field turf (This was not engineered for, but may be a byproduct of changes in the elements. If you shoot sports, it's a major problem that is nearly universal around here. Few places still have grass. That's why I'm going to replace my 600 - it's useless on field turf on a sunny afternoon. I'm looking at replacing the 300, as well, because of this.) Oh, and my back feels better, too! Aug 11, 2012 at 08:35 PM

rantonishak Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #12 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. Deborah Kolt wrote: As a sports shooter, I find the series II superior in the following: 1. weight (Lighter weight for me means quicker to swing around and react to changes on the field. Easier to get shots I missed with the heavier models.) 2. sharpness (I've had to tone down my sharpening in post.) 3. handling of heat wave shimmer coming off of field turf (This was not engineered for, but may be a byproduct of changes in the elements. If you shoot sports, it's a major problem that is nearly universal around here. Few places still have grass. That's why I'm going to replace my 600 - it's useless on field turf on a sunny afternoon. I'm looking at replacing the 300, as well, because of this.) Oh, and my back feels better, too! Deborah, Thank you for your comments and insight... What series II telephotos have you used, thus far? Are you saying you are going to replace the 600 I with the 600 II, and the 300 I with the 300 II ?? Thanks again. Sincerely, Randal Aug 11, 2012 at 08:58 PM

Deborah Kolt Offline • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #13 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. Randal, I have used the 300 II and have the 400 II. I am going to get my own 300 II and 600 II. Would have done it already, but I'm trying to force myself to wait until after having a Big White Sale! Aug 11, 2012 at 10:30 PM

Richard Nye Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #14 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. At the risk of getting "cost" and "price" confused, I'll say this... I have some experience in the cost of high price optics (lenses of lasik surgery lasers). The cost of the lens is HIGHLY dependent on the number, size and precision of the lens elements. The lens elements are very expensive to make and take quite a long time to polish. Also, the coatings are expensive too. My guess is to make a high performing 300 f/2.8 lens, you need very precise optics and precision coatings. The cost may be just slightly more than the Mk I version, but that doesn't mean Canon isn't going to increase the price much more. Aug 12, 2012 at 12:43 AM

rscheffler Online • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #15 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. kaycephoto wrote: PetKal wrote: However, higher or lower, the development cost (and other production costs) could be recouped as well as requisite profit generated in two fundamental manners: high sales volume-lower per unit earnings, or low sales volume-high per unit earnings. Because the lenses are priced the way they are, I believe they have chosen the latter model: lower sales volume, higher earnings per lens. jojosung wrote: another thing to think about too.. is that ppl who are interested in the super telephoto already gotten the MKI and find it hard to justify upgrading to mkii which make the volume even smaller I agree with both of you.. the vast majority of the working sports/press pros that I know have indeed not upgraded their telephoto lenses to the mkII versions.. I photographed a couple NFL games this week, and saw exactly one MkII (400) among the bunch. Mind you, both games were in smaller markets, which has a direct relevance on the kind of gear used by the local photographers. Plenty of guys were using non-IS generation lenses, including one with the original 400 from the early 90s on a 1DII. I had a chat with the guy shooting the 400 IS II, who coincidentally was the first person I saw using one last year at football games. He was shooting a 5DIII on it, and in his opinion, the AF system in the 5DIII has been a bigger difference (improvement) vs. the 1DIV and earlier cameras than upgrading to the 400 IS MkII, in regards to focus consistency. At this point, he's unconvinced the 1DX is a logical purchase and basically echoed the sentiment already expressed in this thread that clients aren't going to pay more for it. In fact, he relies on a lot of stock/royalty sales and that has dramatically gone down, according to him. Deborah, that's a very interesting comment about better results on heat haze plagued FieldTurf fields - the bane of midday warm weather sports photography. Would be interesting to see some side by side proof. . I wonder if it might be more camera related, if you're using the 1DX or 5DIII - the AF might be better optimized to factor in this problem? Aug 12, 2012 at 05:54 AM

kaycephoto Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #16 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. rscheffler wrote: kaycephoto wrote: PetKal wrote: However, higher or lower, the development cost (and other production costs) could be recouped as well as requisite profit generated in two fundamental manners: high sales volume-lower per unit earnings, or low sales volume-high per unit earnings. Because the lenses are priced the way they are, I believe they have chosen the latter model: lower sales volume, higher earnings per lens. jojosung wrote: another thing to think about too.. is that ppl who are interested in the super telephoto already gotten the MKI and find it hard to justify upgrading to mkii which make the volume even smaller I agree with both of you.. the vast majority of the working sports/press pros that I know have indeed not upgraded their telephoto lenses to the mkII versions.. I photographed a couple NFL games this week, and saw exactly one MkII (400) among the bunch. Mind you, both games were in smaller markets, which has a direct relevance on the kind of gear used by the local photographers. Plenty of guys were using non-IS generation lenses, including one with the original 400 from the early 90s on a 1DII. I had a chat with the guy shooting the 400 IS II, who coincidentally was the first person I saw using one last year at football games. He was shooting a 5DIII on it, and in his opinion, the AF system in the 5DIII has been a bigger difference (improvement) vs. the 1DIV and earlier cameras than upgrading to the 400 IS MkII, in regards to focus consistency. At this point, he's unconvinced the 1DX is a logical purchase and basically echoed the sentiment already expressed in this thread that clients aren't going to pay more for it. In fact, he relies on a lot of stock/royalty sales and that has dramatically gone down, according to him. Deborah, that's a very interesting comment about better results on heat haze plagued FieldTurf fields - the bane of midday warm weather sports photography. Would be interesting to see some side by side proof. . I wonder if it might be more camera related, if you're using the 1DX or 5DIII - the AF might be better optimized to factor in this problem? i live & work in one of the bigger sports markets in all of North America.. some of my colleagues are sold on the 1DX for indoor sports (ie. basketball) & i completely agree with them, based on my 30min hands on exp with a 1DX + everybody else's glowing reports.. that said, exactly 6 out of 9 other sports/media shooters i know are sticking with their mkI lenses =) ..the other 3 work for big papers/agencies, so good for them on not having to fork out 10k to keep their competitive edge.. but this tells me a lot. Aug 12, 2012 at 09:03 AM

kjetils Offline • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #17 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. I also noticed that Aden camera has the 800L for CAD10.945. That's a pretty good price? Aug 12, 2012 at 09:26 PM

arbitrage Offline • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #18 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. kjetils wrote: I also noticed that Aden camera has the 800L for CAD10.945. That's a pretty good price? It is a good price for the rest of the world but in Canada is pretty much the standard going rate for this lens. It is in stock at a few stores at this price or very similar. For some reason we have amazing prices for the big whites in Canada but no where near as good pricing on bodies or any regular lenses compared to the US anyways. Aug 12, 2012 at 09:29 PM

PetKal Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #19 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. Well, I was afraid that "low" price on 800L in Canada might be short lived. I feel Canon Canada may increase the 800L price any day in order to bring it more in line with the US price. That was one of the reasons I changed gears from 600II back to 800L, but not the only reason. I expect the 600 II price to stagnate for a while, thus there is no financial incentive to rush out and buy it now. Aug 12, 2012 at 09:46 PM

Pixel Perfect Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #20 · 300 f/2.8 IS II "deals" at Aden Camera and Adorama. PetKal wrote: If so, that would then suggest that Canon might be basing their prices on a significantly reduced production volume of their entire supertelephoto line, compared to the MkI generation lenses. Gee I wonder why Aug 12, 2012 at 10:48 PM

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