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Archive 2012 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?
  
 
surfnron
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p.1 #1 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


The new Canon 500 arrived last Thur, and it's great. BUT I tried using my Ver II 1.4 TC, and it had a great deal of trouble locking focus, and was very slow.
Anybody shooting the same combo, and how does it work for you?
Would a Ver III work better - I know Canon sez they are programmed for the new lenses?
Thanx,
Ron



Aug 08, 2012 at 01:48 PM
BluesWest
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p.1 #2 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


Ron, I don't have the version II Canon 500mm f/4, but I've been using the version I with the Version II 1.4TC on the 7D for the last 1.5 years. I've taken thousands of shots with this combo, so I know what it is capable of. The extender definitely slows AF performance a bit -- that is widely known -- but not to the extent that you describe. I would expect the new 500 to perform similarly to the old 500 with the version II 1.4 extender. However, according to Canon the new 500 should be significantly better with the Ver III extender: one of the main selling points of the version III extenders is a chip that improves AF speed with the new supertelephoto lenses.

John



Aug 08, 2012 at 05:26 PM
Shasoc
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p.1 #3 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


Ron I use the 500 (not the version II) with the 1.4xTC most of the time on a tripod and while it does slows the focusing speed a bit, I've never had problems locking focus on little birds. There isn't no apparent loss of quality either.
I would expect the Version II to behave similarly, if not better. Are you talking hand-held?
Socrate



Aug 08, 2012 at 05:36 PM
StarNut
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p.1 #4 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


Just curious--Why would you pay five figures for a fabulous new lens, and not spend the $300 it would cost to swap your old TC for the excellent new one?

I cannot imagine spending that kind of money for a lens, and not getting the best TC I could get (and I am speaking from experience, having upgraded my gen II TCs to the gen III when I bought my 500 v1).



Aug 08, 2012 at 05:39 PM
surfnron
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p.1 #5 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


Thanx John and Socrate. I should have mentioned that the 7D would not auto focus at all with the 500 F4.5 - not even with the pins taped. Now I am wondering if it's my 7D or the tc? I'll try it with a F2.8 lens and see what happens...

So Mark, you would not have even tried the combo - you would have just rushed out and bought the new tc? That seems like a potential waste of money to me. I already had the Ver II, so it only seemed prudent to see how it would do. It didn't cost me anything to try. YMMV

Ron



Aug 08, 2012 at 06:34 PM
StarNut
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p.1 #6 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


surfnron wrote:
So Mark, you would not have even tried the combo - you would have just rushed out and bought the new tc? That seems like a potential waste of money to me. I already had the Ver II, so it only seemed prudent to see how it would do. It didn't cost me anything to try. YMMV

Ron


I bought the new ones when I bought my 500/4. I compared them, and found the new ones to be better. I kept the new ones, and sold the old ones. Pretty straightforward, really. And everyone with a super telephoto and/or 70-200 IS II has found, and reported, the same thing.

If I had spent $10,000+ on a lens, for which a specific set of TCs had been made, and I had trouble with the old, non-matched TC, I certainly would run out and try the new one. $300 is barely rounding error in that transaction....

YMMV, apparently.





Aug 08, 2012 at 07:08 PM
surfnron
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p.1 #7 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


StarNut wrote:
I bought the new ones when I bought my 500/4. I compared them, and found the new ones to be better. I kept the new ones, and sold the old ones. Pretty straightforward, really. And everyone with a super telephoto and/or 70-200 IS II has found, and reported, the same thing.

If I had spent $10,000+ on a lens, for which a specific set of TCs had been made, and I had trouble with the old, non-matched TC, I certainly would run out and try the new one. $300 is barely rounding error in that transaction....

YMMV, apparently.




I will probably upgrade at some point, but having always shot older, larger f-stop lenses, I have not had the luxury of having TCs that actually worked correctly, so not having one is no big deal to me, but it would probably be nice...

Ron



Aug 08, 2012 at 07:16 PM
iammikie
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p.1 #8 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


I have the 500 II with the 7D and the 1.4X III, af is terrific. Suggest that you try the new version of the 1.4X for better results.


Aug 08, 2012 at 07:18 PM
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p.1 #9 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


iammikie wrote:
I have the 500 II with the 7D and the 1.4X III, af is terrific.

+1



Aug 08, 2012 at 07:50 PM
surfnron
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p.1 #10 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


OK folks, I don't need any more testimonials on how great the 1.4 III is. I need to hear from someone who has tried the Ver II with this combo.
Thanx,
Ron



Aug 08, 2012 at 11:15 PM
 

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surfnron
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p.1 #11 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


Nobody using this combo?


Aug 09, 2012 at 11:24 PM
bigbluebear
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p.1 #12 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


I haven't used that combo but did want to congratulate you on the new lens! Definitely post some sample images when you get the chance.

I have a version II that I'd let you borrow if you were closer. Maybe try a local camera shop and see if they'll let you test it out in store.



Aug 09, 2012 at 11:31 PM
surfnron
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p.1 #13 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


Thanx Steve. My first post with the new lens is here:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1137252/0

I have had a ver II tc for several years and tried it with the new 500, and it did not focus properly - it kept hunting. So I'm trying to figure out if it's the body, the tc, or the lens. I'll try it on another lens soon.



Aug 10, 2012 at 12:04 AM
kosin
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p.1 #14 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


I don't believe that Canon would "cripple" new lenses to work only with new teleconverters

When you tried that combo, was the scene well-lighted?
You may also try to clean the contacts on the teleconverter and camera (pencil eraser does the trick).

I bet that on Nature&Wildlife forum there are more folks using this combo



Aug 10, 2012 at 12:33 AM
rdcny
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p.1 #15 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


Starnut: I am amazed that someone thinks by spending more money one is going to get an equal amount of improvement in image quality and focus speed. Deborah and I have both the version 2 and version 3 of the 1.4x TC. We see no significant difference in terms of image quality improvement or focus speed - with the 500 F4 version 1. Others have reported the same thing...

Ron, I congratulate you on your even-toned responses. I am sometimes amazed here on the Canon board the recommendations are to spend more and more money, you always get something better...canon is a corporation interested in profits - that is fine by me (if they did not come out ahead each year they would fold, obviously)...but just because they put out a new product does not mean that you have to have the latest and the greatest (and the priciest) to get fine image quality or adequate focus speed.

Sounds like Ron has something else going on with his combo - that people with the equipment he is asking about should address. I don't find comments that basically say, you spent lots of money on a lens, so why not spend lots more (only $300?) for a new TC too...that is not helpful from a technical view for Ron - and just encourages Canon to make minor upgrades to charge significantly more money.




Aug 10, 2012 at 02:10 AM
StarNut
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p.1 #16 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


rdcny wrote:
Starnut: I am amazed that someone thinks by spending more money one is going to get an equal amount of improvement in image quality and focus speed. Deborah and I have both the version 2 and version 3 of the 1.4x TC. We see no significant difference in terms of image quality improvement or focus speed - with the 500 F4 version 1. Others have reported the same thing...


I'm amazed that you can't read. I tried it; I liked it; I kept it. As I said. Others have reported the same thing. I then expressed surprise that someone would spend north of $10,000 on a lens, have trouble with the old TC, and not at least try the new TC. As I said. And that's all I said.

BTW, what's "an equal amount of improvement in image quality and focus speed"? Equal to what?

I'm pleased for you that you see no benefit in the new TC; send them back then; I'm amazed that you bought them, didn't find any benefit, and kept them.

I found a significant difference. As I said. So I kept the new ones.

Not so very complicated, actually.




Aug 10, 2012 at 02:18 AM
uz2work
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p.1 #17 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


If you have had the 1.4x II for a few years, there is, at least, the possibility that it is not performing at the level that it should be performing or once did perform.

Teleconverters, especially when used over a period of time with heavy lenses, are subject to gradual distortion in the mount, and that distortion can cause them to show degraded performance. I had a 1.4x II for which this was the case. When I sent it to Canon, and they confirmed that there was distortion in the mount, after 2 failed attempts to repair it, they gave up and sent me a new 1.4x II.

Also, for what it is worth, I have since bought a 1.4x III, and I'm in the camp that sees, at best, negligible difference in performance between the 1.4x II and 1.4x III. I've only used it with the 500/4 original version, but, with that lens, AF speed and accuracy are identical, and, if there is any difference in image quality, I'd have to be looking very carefully at 100% on the screen to see it, and, if such minor differences are there, they certainly don't show up in a print.

Over the years of reading posts on internet forums, one of the things I've learned is that, when people spend their money on new equipment, whether it be camera bodies, or lenses, or even teleconverters, a level of cognitive dissonance kicks in that forces them to look past reality and "see" significant improvement in the new product on which they have just spent their money. I start by being extremely skeptical when people use the term "blows away" to describe improvements in new products, but I've also learned that, when people talk about even minor improvements, they can be extremely minor. One improvement that I have noticed in the 1.4x III over the 1.4x II is that Canon did beef up the way that the mount is secured to the converter, which might lessen the chance of deteriorated performance over time. Otherwise, if I crossed paths with someone who was interested in buying a 1.4x, I'd be happy to sell him/her either my 1.4x II or my 1.4x III, and I'd be happy to keep the other.

Les

Edited on Aug 10, 2012 at 02:47 AM · View previous versions



Aug 10, 2012 at 02:40 AM
dwweiche
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p.1 #18 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


My faith in humanity is always bolstered after reading posts by Les...


Aug 10, 2012 at 02:45 AM
StarNut
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p.1 #19 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


uz2work wrote:
Over the years of reading posts on internet forums, one of the things I've learned is that, when people spend their money on new equipment, whether it be camera bodies, or lenses, or even teleconverters, a level of cognitive dissonance kicks in that forces them to look past reality and "see" significant improvement in the new product on which they have just spent their money. I start by being extremely skeptical when people use the term "blows away" to describe improvements in new products, but I've also learned that, when people talk about even minor improvements, they can be extremely
...Show more

Over the years of reading posts on internet forums, one of the things I've learned is that when people have an experience with a specific piece of equipment, they generalize that their experience is the same for everyone.

So you didn't see a difference; that's fine. I did (especially with my 70-200 f/2.8L IS II); that's why I kept the expensive new tool; had I not seen a difference, I would have returned it. I kept it because I liked it, not the other way around (contrary to the implication implicit in your post).

Evidently, I was not accurate in asserting that everyone had seen an improvement; but certainly all the posts I've seen discussing it have found a noticeable improvement in v3 over v2. More with some lenses than others, but worth keeping.

All I originally said was that I'm surprised OP didn't try a relatively inexpensive newer version to go with his very, very expensive lens. Any reputable retailer will let you return it if you don't like it; it seems illogical to me to spend $10,000 on the newest lens, planning to use it with an extender, and not try the extender designed for the new super-telephotos (which adds so little, relatively, to the cost of the lens).

How about we give this poor, tortured thread back to OP. He's made it clear that he's not interested in trying the new TC, for whatever reason, so I had bowed out of the thread until someone took a shot at me. I'll attempt to bow out again.



Aug 10, 2012 at 03:37 AM
surfnron
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p.1 #20 · 7D+500 Ver II+canon 1.4 Ver II tc=poor focusing?


I don't think I ever said that I would not try the newer tc. However, before I spend more $$, I want to know why the combo did not work. Is it the body, the lens, or the tc. Once I have established that, I might try the new one. First I need to try a different lens with that combo.
Also, I have not installed the new firmware either, and won't until I think I have a handle on the problem. I don't want to add another factor into the mix.
As far as I am concerned, the combo should work as is, and I'm concerned that it doesn't.

Starnut, your original post had a very hard edge to it - whether or not you meant it to. Posts like that raise peoples hackles, and I had several PMs that said I should blast you, so I know it's not just me. If you did not mean it the way it came off, you should probably read your posts several times before you hit the "send" button. If it came across as you intended, just add me to your "Hide Me" list.
Ron



Aug 10, 2012 at 03:54 AM
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