p.1 #1 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
In a typical wedding day, are there specific shots that you love to capture – or is it more important to deliver something totally unique from that day? What makes a successful wedding day for you?
For me it is trying to get one great shoot of every scene. If I get that, then, I’m more than happy. One great ‘getting ready’ shoot, one portrait, one ceremony shot, one first dance.
That’s my main goal. I always ask the couples, how many pictures do you need to remember that special day? Usually the answer is ‘one’.
I have a lot of trouble with culling certain weddings, and this quotation by a fellow photographer (Fer Juaristi) helps me remember that I don't always need several images from the same "scene" to convey an event. I wanted to share it for any folks in my boat who have trouble winnowing down weddings to a desired number.
Aug 08, 2012 at 07:15 AM
DavidWEGS Offline [X]
p.1 #2 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
I have trouble culling too. I will have to start asking that question of clients.
p.1 #3 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
I dunno about you, but my clients expect a LOT more than one photo of every scene....basically by your calculations (or the ones in the quote), you'd be delivering like 25 photos....I personally would be PISSED if i were a client, paid a couple to several thousand dollars, and was delivered less than 50 photos.....
sure i have "trouble" culling sometimes, but if the photo is in focus, composed well, has good context, and isn't a duplicate of anything i've already selected, then i pretty much deliver it....i average delivering anywhere from 350 to 700 images.....even at 350 i've never had anyone complain and ask if "that was it?"....
p.1 #4 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
The point is, the value doesn't rest with quantity, it is in the quality. Of course you're going to have to compensate with quantity if the quality is blah or average. If the client appreciates quality over quantity and artistic vision over repetition, they would truly be more than happy to commission 25 amazing images for their collection at a price of $x,000.
p.1 #5 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
Everyone's marketing message and expectation-management-process is different. So yes, there are some people who have built a business to provide exactly what they like and have it all work out. Having said that I have found that most often the photograph the the photographer thinks is great rarely resonates with the client in the same way. Often they find greater value in something that we wouldn't think twice about. They tend to care more about content than photographic quality. My business personally started getting a lot better when I completely stopped trying to get the photographically "great" shot and focused on what the client cared more about. YMMV of course.
I'd like to think 200 images or so would effectively convey what I believe is worth conveying. I don't do that, but that's the number that I think sounds right.
It bears mentioning again that you can do any damn thing you want if you manage expectations properly.
p.1 #6 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
TRReichman wrote:
I have found that most often the photograph the the photographer thinks is great rarely resonates with the client in the same way. Often they find greater value in something that we wouldn't think twice about. They tend to care more about content than photographic quality.
- trr
Couldn't agree more....another reason why i stopped picking the photos that go in the album layout....i would always send the preview to the client for approval, and always get back like 50 changes, all replacing this photo with a photo that i would have never picked in a million years....
i feel like if we shoot for what WE want, and our "artistic vision", we're robbing the client, and mostly likely not providing the service that the client had expected....
Although, like you said, it's all about setting expectations up front...
p.1 #7 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
I think there is a certain quantifiable expectation when one shells out X-amount of money for anything. This applies even to photography services. The client expects a number in relation to how much they spend. Now you can manage it to a certain degree, but if you're going to give the client 25 images after covering an 8hr shoot, well the question would be what were you doing the entire time?
I'll use the car industry as another example. Would you pay $80,000 for a BMW M3 that has 120hp?
p.1 #9 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
I dunno about you, but my clients expect a LOT more than one photo of every scene....basically by your calculations (or the ones in the quote), you'd be delivering like 25 photos....I personally would be PISSED if i were a client, paid a couple to several thousand dollars, and was delivered less than 50 photos....
You'd only be pissed if you expected more than 50 photos. By contrast, if you hired a photographer famous for shooting the 35 iconic photos of your wedding day, you'd probably be pleasantly surprised if he delivered 45. It's a question of expectations, not of some actual objective value of 300 images vs 50.
As soon as I started reading this thread, I started having an imaginary conversation with a client I just booked the other day. (I have a lot of imaginary conversations; sometimes loudly.)
I say (this is all in my head, mind you), with hint of mischief, "What would happen if I only delivered 30 incredible images from your wedding."
She says, "Don't do that."
Me: "What would happen if I did?" Her: "Please tell me you're not going to do that."
Me: "Just play my game with me for a minute." Her: ...
Me: "What would happen?" Her: "I'm not sure." {wide eyes}
Me: "How important would each one of those images be to you?" Her: {pause} ... "Really important."
Me: "All of them?" Her: "Yes."
Me: "When I deliver 400 images to you, how important will they be?" Her: "Some of them will be really important."
Me: "Yes. But what will be the effect of having 400 images?" Her: "They'll be less important."
Me: "All of them?" Her: "No, some of them will still be important, but I'll have to find them."
Me: "How many do you think would be really, really important -- important enough that you would talk about those specific images for years?" Her: "I don't really know. Maybe 20 or 30... .... Oh. I see."
I have a theory that this is true for most people. We can't keep 200 (not to mention 400 or 600) images in our heads. Without looking at my album, I can remember about five images from my wedding. Those are the ones Karen and I still talk about.
Not saying anyone should try delivering just 50 images to a client. But if you do, please call me and tell me all about it.
p.1 #11 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
David - you're welcome. Glad it helped.
ckhagen - exactly!
Ian - yes. I've read Jeff Ascough (a famous UK wedding photographer) argue as much:
A few weeks ago I had a client visit me regarding her wedding. She’d seen a number of photographers who were all offering substantially more pictures than I was. I got a box of pictures out, opened it up and spread all the prints over the floor. I asked her how many images there were on the floor. “I’ve no idea but there are loads of them. It’s quite overwhelming looking at them all.” There were 150 images and she was overwhelmed with the quantity. So how do you think she would feel looking at 500 images, or even 1000 images. Needless to say she booked!! I educated her into why you don’t need hundreds of pictures to tell the story of the day. You don’t need second shooters, and that one photographer can work simply and effectively and get a great set of images for her.
Yesterday I was doing a seminar with my good friend George Weir. I showed 45 photographers a complete wedding. After the slideshow finished, I asked them if there was anything missing from the coverage. All of them agreed that there wasn’t anything missing. There were 148 images in the show. The point I’m trying to make is that once you get hung up on the idea that you have to capture everything, your mindset is all wrong for the great images out there that you should capture....Show more →
Regarding Fer, he's written that he delivers somewhere between 150 and 200 edited images. However, how much he delivers isn't nearly as interesting to me as the process behind his decisions.
p.1 #14 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
When I shot on 35mm, a 10 roll wedding day was huge (360 images), and that included the outtakes and duds! To think that was only 12-15 years ago...kinda makes a statement to me about how frivolous society has become when they expect 500+ images from a "standard" wedding. At that point you aren't really telling a story, you're practically filming it.
p.1 #15 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
Micky Bill wrote:
900!?!? Yikes. My parent's album had probably 24...well it was shot on 4x5 in 1951
Maybe there a middle ground, more than 24 and less than 900. How many total frames do you take to end up,with 600-900 keepers?
Well if you consider a 10 hour day, 2 photographers sometimes 3, 900 picked isnt thattt much
from say a 900 set ill cull through about 1800.
Aug 08, 2012 at 06:24 PM
whtrbt7 Offline • • [X]
p.1 #16 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
I would say the important photos are about 20-30 images total. The likelihood that you'll hit those 30 depends on your skill and timing. If you multiply that number by 10, that would be equal to how many total images you need in order to get a better sense of your wedding so that's 200-300. Now if you're not certain about the quality of some of your images or you want to make sure you have a few extras, multiply that number by 5 which gives you 1000-1500 photos that you will need to take total. If you're spraying shots using continuous from time to time, I would multiply that number by about 2-3 which should give you about 2000-4000 shots now. Ideally, within the 200 shots you deliver, those 20-30 will be there. It just may take some people about 2000-4000 shots during a wedding to get those 20-30 images.
p.1 #17 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
I have to agree with Ian, 20-30 are probably going to be the MOST important to a client. However, who are we to decide which of those 400 (or however many you want to deliver) are the "most" important. One you may overlook, could be extremely special to a client.
I'll stick with our 250-500 and let the client decide which are important to them.
p.1 #18 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
What a cool thread ....
Need to think about this.
The one part I do not need to think is needing 2000+ images to capture a wedding to get enough quality images to deliver to client. .... Well I am pretty sure....
p.1 #20 · How many images do your couples need to remember their day?
Here in the UK where the professional wedding photography industry is fast desintergrating, there is huge pressure to deliver 'quantity' over 'quality' and most expect to pay less than commercially sustainable rates for it.
We have always believed in delivering 300-350 final carefully culled images that we feel tell the 'complete' story of a day. Yes, all weddings are different, but at the end of our all-day culling on the Monday after the wedding, we always end up within 50 images for each one.
We work hard to set expectations with our couples about them paying us to do the 'hard work' of taking out duplicates, un-flattering and creative 'test' shots, so they don't have the 'quality' of the story of their wedding day, watered down with a huge 'quantity' of dross.
The trouble is, here in the UK market (at all ends,) we are noticing that our target couples of just 3-5 years ago, are starting to have similar pre-existing expectations in terms of final delievered image numbers, as their cheaper contemporaries at the bottom end of the market.
Everyone it seeems now expects to receive 1000 images, and can't seem to understand that this will inevtably mean an element of 'dross' will be included, even from the very best wedding photographers.
One ting we have learned in the UK market place in recent years, is that as professional wedding photographers, if we don't supply the market with what they think is the 'norm', we will quickly be looking for another career, so I'm not sure how long we can hold on to our 'quality' over 'quantity' principle?
