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Archive 2012 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
  
 
atroester
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p.1 #1 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


I wonder if there's any other photogs/videogs like me out there that enjoy using the 1D4 for photos/video but would love to see the 7D2/etc. have an APS-H sensor. Because:

- APS-H is, IMHO, the perfect balance between full-frame and APS-C for natural DOF in relation to light needed and aperture size.

- APS-H is also the perfect balance between having a little more reach yet very good high-ISO noise capabilities, blowing away the APS-C.

- Shooting with 5Ds is always great, but the amount of light needed to stop down for larger DOF can be annoying. I've got to essentially have a full-time focus puller to get anything in focus for a shot. Also, there's a 'look' to full-frame that gets old quickly, and isn't quite right for every shoot/client

- The 1D4 is sometimes too big/heavy for certain scenarios, and also for the $$$ it is worth, I hate to pull that out and take it all the time for video work (it's quite overkill and much more of a liability out in the field. If a 7D falls in the water, I can replace it for around $900).

- The APS-C sensor though, unless in a very well lit and controlled studio environment, means extra hours in post pulling noise out and overlaying grain/effects to hide the very prevalent banding. After shooting quite a bit with 7Ds and T3is, etc. I made the decision to never use the sensor unless it was a very specific studio environment. I work in run-and-gun style production, meaning I can't afford to create extra work for myself in NeatVideo and Magic Bullet getting the 7D footage up to par. No matter how much you love the sensor, it requires more time in post. Per project, that expands exponentially, costing me money and time.

I realize Canon won't do this with the next 7D because of the money invested in EF-S lenses, but do you think there will ever be a compact camera with this great sensor? I would pick up a 7D2 built as a baby 1D4 with APS-H in a heartbeat. Would be the perfect all-around photo/video machine, IMHO.



Aug 05, 2012 at 07:56 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #2 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


Sure if it's priced the same as the current 7D. Otherwise, most of us would prefer to spend a little more for a 5D3.


Aug 05, 2012 at 08:21 PM
atroester
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p.1 #3 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


? The 5D3 is full-frame. My point here is that I'd like APS-H in a body besides the large 1D body.


Aug 05, 2012 at 08:33 PM
vsg28
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p.1 #4 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


atroester wrote:
I'd like APS-H in a body besides the large 1D body.


Ditto. I would like to see something smaller as well, but cost will still be my main priority.



Aug 05, 2012 at 08:37 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #5 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


atroester wrote:
? The 5D3 is full-frame. My point here is that I'd like APS-H in a body besides the large 1D body.


My point exactly--I greatly prefer FF over 1.3X given a similar or only slightly less cost. I shoot with the 7D and 5D2 and but prefer the FF CMOS over the smaller APS-C save for when I need the extra reach. However, I suspect the days of the 1.3X are numbered. But then, a $1700 1.3X 7D MKII would be extremely enticing but is as likely as a unicorn appearing in Honolulu...



Aug 05, 2012 at 08:50 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #6 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


Hm, some 6D with something like 60D body (metal build please), would be actually pretty good idea. Must admit I still like 1DMK3, even today when its "old"..

Tho wouldnt mind if they increased size a bit, like 1.2x APS-H seems slighty better to 1.3x and still work almost same way.



Aug 05, 2012 at 09:03 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #7 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


Mescalamba wrote:
Hm, some 6D with something like 60D body (metal build please), would be actually pretty good idea. Must admit I still like 1DMK3, even today when its "old"..

Tho wouldnt mind if they increased size a bit, like 1.2x APS-H seems slighty better to 1.3x and still work almost same way.


What's the point, why not make it 1.15x crop or 1.1x crop. There's not enough difference to warrant a whole new fab. You can do the crop easily from FF if it's got enough pixels, like the D800

For wildlife I greatly prefer 1.3x than FF. You are almost nearly always cropping anyway and the current FF are way too low a pixel density for birding. 1.3x is a perfect blend of the best of both crop and FF. It's the best all round sensor size and something like 18MP which is around 30MP FF equivalent would be ideal and give us a nice blend of reach and IQ. Also means you can get by with a 500/600 rather than needing an 800 as you do for the pixel challenged 5D III and 1D X.

Having said that Canon are too conservative to put the 1.3x sensor in a non 1 series and I'm sure they'll just let it fade into oblivion and feed us another disappointing 1.6x sensor like the that in the 650D for the 7D II.



Aug 05, 2012 at 10:54 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #8 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


My view:
1.3 crop...not needed, redundant, gone....a thing of the past.
1.6 crop....economy and high pixel density driven for those that get their "reach" ( ) thru photoshopping and cropping. A bit of an AF update as well as some ISO noise cleanup, and 7Ds will become a formidable camera line for the thrifty.

FF.....that is where 35mm photography happens.....all the crop factors have just been an economic expedient of the early dSLR development phase.



Aug 05, 2012 at 11:19 PM
uz2work
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p.1 #9 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


PetKal wrote:
My view:
1.3 crop...not needed, redundant, gone....a thing of the past.
1.6 crop....economy and high pixel density driven for those that get their "reach" ( ) thru photoshopping and cropping. A bit of an AF update as well as some ISO noise cleanup, and 7Ds will become a formidable camera line for the thrifty.

FF.....that is where 35mm photography happens.....all the crop factors have just been an economic expedient of the early dSLR development phase.


It can similarly be argued that the FF sensor size was just a convenient compromise for Canon as it was making its transition from film to digital because it saved them from having a need to redesign their entire lens line up. The reality is that there is nothing that makes a FF-sized sensor magically or more naturally suited to photography than a an APS-C or APS-H or medium format sized sensor. Each sensor size his its own inherent advantages and disadvantages.

And I fail to see what using a 1.6 crop sensor has to do with those who achieve their photographic results with "Photoshopping". I'm not even sure I know what that means except that I find the statement to be condescending and froth with arrogance.

Count me in as one who is dismayed by Canon's apparent decision to abandon the 1.3 crop sensor and as one who, for the kind of shooting I do, can't find the logic in abandoning a 16 MP 1D Mark IV and 500/4 combination in favor of an 18 MP 1DX and 600/4 combination that weighs more, costs much more, and puts fewer pixels on the subject in focal length limited situations.


Les



Aug 05, 2012 at 11:38 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #10 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


PetKal wrote:
My view:
1.3 crop...not needed, redundant, gone....a thing of the past.
1.6 crop....economy and high pixel density driven for those that get their "reach" ( ) thru photoshopping and cropping. A bit of an AF update as well as some ISO noise cleanup, and 7Ds will become a formidable camera line for the thrifty.

FF.....that is where 35mm photography happens.....all the crop factors have just been an economic expedient of the early dSLR development phase.


You forgot the smiley or at the end.



Aug 05, 2012 at 11:44 PM
 

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Gochugogi
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p.1 #11 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


uz2work wrote:
It can similarly be argued that the FF sensor size was just a convenient compromise for Canon as it was making its transition from film to digital because it saved them from having a need to redesign their entire lens line up. The reality is that there is nothing that makes a FF-sized sensor magically or more naturally suited to photography than a an APS-C or APS-H or medium format sized sensor. Each sensor size his its own inherent advantages and disadvantages.

And I fail to see what using a 1.6 crop sensor has to do with those who achieve
...Show more

Sheesh, a redesign for their entire lens line for a new format would take at least 20 years. Glad they didn't do it. I must say most of us OF--save for rich 'blab shooters--grew up on the 35mm film. I remember when I finally got a new 5D in 2005 it was like returning home. The VF was so natural and easy to shoot with. With my fav lenses I could visualize the image and angle of view and simply lift camera to take the picture. With my prior 10D/20D I wasted a lot of time zooming and walking back and forth. Of course the new generation of young upstarts will grow up shooting with iPhones, so visualization from an old 35mm film camera orientation will soon be a moot point.



Aug 06, 2012 at 12:12 AM
uz2work
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p.1 #12 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


Gochugogi wrote:
Sheesh, a redesign for their entire lens line for a new format would take at least 20 years. Glad they didn't do it. .


That was precisely my point.



Aug 06, 2012 at 12:24 AM
StillFingerz
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p.1 #13 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


Just to add a bit of fuel the this raging debate...

How about a pro level mirror-less body with
- all the goodies from the 5D3
- an articulated touch LCD
- a built-in HD EVF
- and use the APS-H sensor

Now what shall it's name be...EOS MEH

Edited on Aug 06, 2012 at 01:05 AM · View previous versions



Aug 06, 2012 at 12:59 AM
ggreene
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p.1 #14 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


I don't really mind the 1.3x crop sensor being phased out. What I really hate is that Canon has no viable replacement/alternative to the 1D4 as a whole. I don't mind switching to a FF or 1.6x crop body but Canon inevitably cripples them in some way. That's what made the 1D4 so unique and desirable. It's sad that there will be no 1D5.


Aug 06, 2012 at 01:01 AM
robstein
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p.1 #15 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


IMO it was just a stop gap until Canon could get to the 5D3/1DX. Makes no sense in the lineup cause cannot mount EFs lenses and adds no ability over a FF or 1.6.


Aug 06, 2012 at 02:00 AM
Mike Tuomey
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p.1 #16 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


It's a shame that Canon will eventually end support for the Mk IV. Makes staying long-term with a 1D IV (or any of the APS-H bodies) difficult from a service standpoint.


Aug 06, 2012 at 02:06 AM
AJSJones
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p.1 #17 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


atroester wrote:
? The 5D3 is full-frame. My point here is that I'd like APS-H in a body besides the large 1D body.



But the 5D3 is a lot smaller than a 1D body
They could, I suppose put a 1.3 size sensor in it Or you could just use the central part of the 5D3.

Or do you want something 1.3x smaller than the 5D3



Aug 06, 2012 at 03:35 AM
vsg28
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p.1 #18 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


He is thinking 60D small, I guess.


Aug 06, 2012 at 03:37 AM
David Baldwin
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p.1 #19 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


1.3 crop is a thing of the past, never to be seen again.


Aug 06, 2012 at 11:20 AM
twistedlim
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p.1 #20 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?


Mike Tuomey wrote:
It's a shame that Canon will eventually end support for the Mk IV. Makes staying long-term with a 1D IV (or any of the APS-H bodies) difficult from a service standpoint.


Do you really think so Mike? I gotta believe it will not be any differrent than say the 1d2 which is about 8 years if I rememeber before they end support. It hurts the used market, but if it is not different than any other body I think they would hold their value.

Rich



Aug 06, 2012 at 11:37 AM
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