Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2012 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25
  
 
andrenth
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


Hello

I'm after a lens for street photography on an APS-C sensor, so ideally a 28mm or 35mm equiv.

I couldn't find much information comparing these two lenses... has anyone here tried both? I don't have access to Digilloyd's reviews, but his one-phrase summaries say this about them:

2.8/21 - Compact 21mm lens with a faster aperture. Distortion well-controlled, but more than the /4.5 option.
2.8/25 - Outstanding sharpness.

So just by that the 25 seems to win, but this is hardly a comprehensive comparison



Aug 02, 2012 at 12:22 AM
redisburning
Offline
• • •
Account locked
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


Zeiss states themselves that the peak resolution of the ZM 25mm/f2.8 is 30% higher than the 100 Makro-Planar.

What camera will you use these on? They are both biogons and will smear the corners on a lot of cameras.



Aug 02, 2012 at 12:31 AM
andrenth
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


Still undecided, but likely a Nex-7.


Aug 02, 2012 at 01:00 AM
Taylor Sherman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


I haven't tried either on the Nex-7, but indeed there are reports of corner smearing. For street maybe you don't mind so much. You'll also be getting strong magenta casts on the edges/corners for sure.

The Sigma 19/2.8 sounds pretty good. It might yield superior results on the Nex-7.




Aug 02, 2012 at 01:05 AM
Taylor Sherman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


The Leica Super-Elmar 21/3.4 works well (no smearing, but color shift) on the Nex-7, but it's quite expensive. On the Nex-5N there is no color shift.


Aug 02, 2012 at 01:07 AM
mawz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


For the NEX-7, get the ZA E 24/1.8 Sonnar or the Sigma 30. Both will produce IQ comparable to the ZM's, both will lack the corner colour shift that the ZM Biogons will have on the NEX-7. The ZA24 will also give you the Zeiss look, albeit in the more muted Sonnar signature.

Note the 21/2.8 is more Distagon than Biogon, the f4.5 is a true Biogon design, not a Biogon-derived hybrid like the f2.8 version



Aug 02, 2012 at 01:09 AM
andrenth
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


I'd like to restrict the lens choice to M mount ones, for portability to other bodies.


Aug 02, 2012 at 01:13 AM
mawz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


andrenth wrote:
I'd like to restrict the lens choice to M mount ones, for portability to other bodies.


Unfortunately in this range that pretty much leaves you compensating for colourshift or smearing, or limiting yourself to one of a few cameras (NEX-5N, Ricoh GXR with an M module, or a native M mount camera). Adapting RF wides is simply fraught with issues otherwise, which is truly a pity (I'd love to be able to use a pure M system on my NEX-7)



Aug 02, 2012 at 01:22 AM
edwardkaraa
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


I opted for the 25 instead of the 21. Some people say it's too clinical but I don't mind that. Easily my sharpest lens on film and GXR-M.


Aug 02, 2012 at 01:31 AM
Taylor Sherman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


Before I got the 21SE I was pondering getting the CV Color Skopar 20mm SL2, in Nikon mount. I think it + adapter would be about the size of the kit lens. It's been discontinued but is still available from what I've seen.

It's not M but it will be adaptable to many other mounts.

This guy has shot a number of pics w/ the Biogon 25 ZM on the Nex-7, and has the full-size images on Flickr. They've all had cornerfix applied it looks like. The edges and corners can be smeary, but they generally look quite good at any size that fits on my 30" monitor.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinstelbrink/tags/zeissbiogon25mmf28/



Aug 02, 2012 at 01:54 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Taylor Sherman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


Actually a number of those don't have cornerfix applied, look for the "cornerfixed" tag on the ones that do (and the obvious magenta edges on the ones that don't).



Aug 02, 2012 at 01:55 AM
andrenth
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


mawz wrote:
Unfortunately in this range that pretty much leaves you compensating for colourshift or smearing, or limiting yourself to one of a few cameras (NEX-5N, Ricoh GXR with an M module, or a native M mount camera). Adapting RF wides is simply fraught with issues otherwise, which is truly a pity (I'd love to be able to use a pure M system on my NEX-7)


I understand that. Whatever body I choose now, I see it as a temporary solution because of these issues. Unfortunately the Nex-7 seems to be the only current mirrorless body that 1) has useful aids for manual focus and 2) has an integrated viewfinder, which are my "requirements".

Sigh. If film labs weren't so rare around here (let alone professional ones...) I could just get an Ikon...



Aug 02, 2012 at 11:04 AM
andrenth
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


Taylor Sherman wrote:
This guy has shot a number of pics w/ the Biogon 25 ZM on the Nex-7, and has the full-size images on Flickr. They've all had cornerfix applied it looks like. The edges and corners can be smeary, but they generally look quite good at any size that fits on my 30" monitor.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinstelbrink/tags/zeissbiogon25mmf28/


They look very nice indeed!



Aug 02, 2012 at 11:08 AM
Bijltje
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


I find the difference between a 28mm lens and a 35mm lens quite big.
Since both lenses are quite close in performance, Just take the one with the focal length u like.

No experience with them on APS-C camera's trough.



Aug 02, 2012 at 12:28 PM
redisburning
Offline
• • •
Account locked
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


andrenth wrote:
I understand that. Whatever body I choose now, I see it as a temporary solution because of these issues. Unfortunately the Nex-7 seems to be the only current mirrorless body that 1) has useful aids for manual focus and 2) has an integrated viewfinder, which are my "requirements".

Sigh. If film labs weren't so rare around here (let alone professional ones...) I could just get an Ikon...


you should consider developing yourself. it is less complicated than it is made out to be. a bit time consuming, sure, but very rewarding and it's not expensive.



Aug 02, 2012 at 04:04 PM
andrenth
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


redisburning wrote:
you should consider developing yourself. it is less complicated than it is made out to be. a bit time consuming, sure, but very rewarding and it's not expensive.


Do you have any pointers? Is there anything more "portable" these days, that doesn't require a whole dark room?



Aug 02, 2012 at 04:35 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


andrenth wrote:
Do you have any pointers? Is there anything more "portable" these days, that doesn't require a whole dark room?


Development does not require a darkroom, that's only needed for printing. I personally use a mixed workflow, developing my own B&W and then scanning (I use a lab for my colour development, but I have access to multiple good pro labs here in Toronto). I do all my own scanning. I do not have a darkroom, all development is done in my kitchen (in a 1 bedroom apartment).

For B&W, it's easy. You need either a dark room or a changing bag to load the tank, then the rest you can do in your kitchen/bathroom. That requires a daylight tank, a set of reels, a thermometer, a couple measuring jugs and chemicals (dev, stop, fix and photoflo). There's tons of guides online, or you can get a book. I got started with the Ansel Adams guides.

Colour requires some more care, it's a more complex process requiring stricter temperature control, but eminently doable, at least one regular here, makten, does his own colour.




Aug 02, 2012 at 04:40 PM
uscmatt99
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


Taylor Sherman wrote:
Before I got the 21SE I was pondering getting the CV Color Skopar 20mm SL2, in Nikon mount. I think it + adapter would be about the size of the kit lens. It's been discontinued but is still available from what I've seen.

It's not M but it will be adaptable to many other mounts.

This guy has shot a number of pics w/ the Biogon 25 ZM on the Nex-7, and has the full-size images on Flickr. They've all had cornerfix applied it looks like. The edges and corners can be smeary, but they generally look quite good at any
...Show more

I can't speak for the Sony NEX cameras, but I use a ZM 25/2.8 on a Ricoh GXR, and used a CV 20/3.5 SL-II prior to that via adapter. The CV20 is adequate on a Nikon D700, but really shows its weaknesses on the GXR. I actually greatly prefer my CV 15/4.5 on the Ricoh to the CV 20/3.5 on the D700 for wide shooting as long as I can stay at base ISO. Clinical or not, the ZM25 is excellent on the GXR, where the biggest problem is aliasing to the point I stop it down on purpose to get diffraction. I dream of a NEX-7 sensor getting the Ricoh treatment someday By the way I also have the CV 40 and 90 SL-II lenses, and they perform quite well on the GXR, especially the 90.

To the OP, it's not too bad using the EVF on the GXR, and presumably the NEX-5N. I think if you really want to use M-mount glass wider than 50mm, these are the cameras to consider. Otherwise, get the Sigmas or Zeiss recommended by others.



Aug 02, 2012 at 05:23 PM
JimBuchanan
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


I agree with pretty much everything said here. I really like the NEX-7, but was disappointed with wide M lens performance. I've already sold the excellent Heliar 15, but as far as the ZM25 is concerned, I'm reminded of the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".

I have heard the ZM21/2.8 has field curvature, but my ZM25 on the N-7 doesn't have much at all, if any. Posted before, here is a full frame at infinity and a center/field crop, after cornerfix. Using another saying, "It ain't too shabby".













Aug 02, 2012 at 05:54 PM
philber
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · ZM 2.8/21 and 2.8/25


I am using a Leica 24mm Elmar on my NEX 7, and am finding it exceptional. Colours, constrast and sharpness are the best I have even seen, though the Leica 21mm Super Elmar is very close indeed. Colour shift is moderate and CornerFix cleans it up very well. This does not detract from the Zeiss ZM 25 being a fine lens indeed, certanly more attractive from a price Vs speed point of view.
One example, with a crop attached.




  NEX-7    ---- lens    1/15s    100 ISO    0.0 EV  









Aug 05, 2012 at 06:00 AM





FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password