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Archive 2012 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K
  
 
Gregstx
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p.1 #1 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K


When I bought my D7000, I bought it to take photos. I already had an awesome pro level video camera. I knew the D7K only shot 1080 24p but I didn't care a lot since I didn't intend to use it for video. But I have used it for some video and I like the look it can produce. But I really don't like the 24p mode in 1080. Why can't Nikon give us a upgrade/download to make 1080 30p functional in the D7K. It seems like Canon didn't have any issues with upgrading the 5D Mk II to offer different frame rates. And the D7000's sensor is certainly capable since the D5100 uses the same sensor and has 1080 30P. I seriously doubt that the 5100 has more buffer or memory or capabilities. And to add more insult to us faithful Nikon users, Sony offers 1080 60p in one of their models using the same sensor. So what gives Nikon?


Aug 01, 2012 at 03:08 AM
NathanHamler
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p.1 #2 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K


I'd much rather have 720 60p than 1080 30p.....that's just me though....


Aug 01, 2012 at 03:55 AM
mshi
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p.1 #3 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K


For NTSC TV countries, TV frame rate is 30 frames displayed every second while the movie industry shoots movies at 24 frame per second. 24 frame rate gives all the aesthetics, such as intraframe motion blur, that Hollywood films have helped to define over the last one hundred years. Less is more.


Aug 01, 2012 at 05:19 AM
RoadconePhoto
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p.1 #4 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K


because 24p is the "cool" thing right now... I'm a fan of 29.97 since thats what everything is broadcast at and my monitor has a 60Hz refresh...


Aug 01, 2012 at 02:53 PM
 

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penpro
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p.1 #5 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K


I'm not sure that 24 is cool right now, we have been working at 24 for a very long time for commercial work. Cool now is 60 as that is what is being used to shoot some of the new and up coming 3D films.

I find it a pain that my D7K doesn't do 30 but I have yet to shoot any video higher then 720p so I don't really care. I don't know why they would limit it, I can only think so that they could force you to get something else as well.



Aug 01, 2012 at 07:50 PM
Gregstx
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p.1 #6 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K


mshi wrote:
For NTSC TV countries, TV frame rate is 30 frames displayed every second while the movie industry shoots movies at 24 frame per second. 24 frame rate gives all the aesthetics, such as intraframe motion blur, that Hollywood films have helped to define over the last one hundred years. Less is more.


You do realize that the sole reason that Hollywood used 24 frames per second had absolutely nothing to do with aesthetics, don't you? They weren't trying to create a "certain look". The ONLY reason for using 24 fps was strictly economics. Film shot at 24 frames uses less film stock that film shot at 30 frames or 48 frames. The IMAX people experimented with "High Definition" film. They shot at 48 frames per second. But all of the IMAX theaters were opposed to the expense of buying 48 frame projectors.



Aug 02, 2012 at 06:38 AM
mshi
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p.1 #7 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K


Gregstx wrote:
You do realize that the sole reason that Hollywood used 24 frames per second had absolutely nothing to do with aesthetics, don't you? They weren't trying to create a "certain look". The ONLY reason for using 24 fps was strictly economics. Film shot at 24 frames uses less film stock that film shot at 30 frames or 48 frames. The IMAX people experimented with "High Definition" film. They shot at 48 frames per second. But all of the IMAX theaters were opposed to the expense of buying 48 frame projectors.


You can say the same about Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa and reason that he used limited color palette for the cost-saving reasons. Gordon Gekko likes to say, "It's all about bucks, kid. The rest is conversation." 48p has been around since 1970s but mostly only in museums while lately more and more vendors have been trying really hard to push their hardware. However, most in key decision-making positions are not really sure about that. According to the Wired magazine,

"How many theater owners will get behind fast frame? Thatís the question unfolding this week as projection vendors roll out their faster-is-better pitch to theater operators meeting in Las Vegas for their annual CinemaCon convention. Warner Bros. screened 10 minutes of The Hobbit footage Tuesday, and Variety reported that not all exhibitors were sold on the 48-fps formatís sharp visuals.

The trade publication quoted one exhibitor who saw the footage: 'Some of the closeup shots looked like an old soap opera on TV. But the wide vistas were pretty breathtaking. It will take some getting used to, for sure.'"

http://wbphotolab.warnerbros.com/2012/05/11/fast-frame-hobbit-dangles-prospect-of-superior-cinema-but-will-theaters-bite/

Whether or not there is a cinematic look with 24p, your opinion is as good as mine.

According to Wiki, "48p is a progressive format currently being trialed in the film industry. At twice the traditional rate of 24p, this frame rate attempts to reduce motion blur and flicker found in films. Director James Cameron stated his intention to film the two sequels to his film Avatar at a higher frame rate than 24 frames per second, in order to add a heightened sense of reality.The first film to be filmed at 48 FPS was The Hobbit, a decision made by its director Peter Jackson. However, at a preview screening at CinemaCon, the audience's reaction was mixed after being shown some of the film's footage at 48p, with some arguing that the feel of the footage was too life-like (thus breaking the suspension of disbelief).

72p is a progressive format and is currently in experimental stages. Major institutions such as Snell have demonstrated 720p72 pictures as a result of earlier analogue experiments, where 768 line television at 75 FPS looked subjectively better than 1150 line 50 FPS progressive pictures with higher shutter speeds available (and a corresponding lower data rate).Modern cameras such as the Red One can use this frame rate to produce slow motion replays at 24 FPS. Douglas Trumbull, who undertook experiments with different frame rates that led to the Showscan film format, found that emotional impact peaked at 72 FPS for viewers. 72 FPS is the maximum rate available in the WMV video file format.

300 FPS, along with other high frame rates, have been tested by BBC Research over concerns with sports and other broadcasts where fast motion with large HD displays could have a disorienting effect on viewers.300 FPS can be converted to both 50 and 60 FPS transmission formats without major issues."



Aug 02, 2012 at 07:16 PM
Gregstx
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p.1 #8 · Why can't we have 1080 30p on the D7K


Mshi, I think there is such a thing as cinematic look but I think that the motion blurring is only a part of it. I think a more important aspect to the cinematic look is the shallow dof that you can only get from larger light gathering surfaces. For years, consumer and pro video cameras have used relatively small sensors that don't do shallow dof as well. And that single aspect has traditionally defined the "video look". That is one reason I like the D7000 for video. In addition to motion blurring and shallow dof, exquisite lighting and creative camera work contribute to the cinematic look, as well. I have a good friend who would agree with you about the virtues of 24 fps. And we have had numerous BS sessions over the relative virtues of the various frame rates. So far, neither of us has changed our opinions. Thanks for the link to the Warner Bros. story. Interesting read. I am going to email it to my friend. I think that the future of 24 fps is limited. Which gets me back to my original point. I am even more convinced that Nikon needs to figure out how to give us at least a 30 fps recording capability in our D7K's, and perhaps higher frame rates as well. We have already seen Canon take care of their customers by giving them free upgraded frame rates so it is time for Nikon to step up to the plate.


Aug 04, 2012 at 04:26 AM





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