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Archive 2012 · Leica m8.2 purchase?
  
 
allstarimaging
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p.1 #1 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


Hello,
Based on a number of responses I received on my previous post (Leica 3 questions) it has been suggested that it might be a good idea to enter the Leica world with the purchase of a M8.2. As a result I have a couple of questions.

1). Good idea to purchase a mint condition M8.2? If so ballpark on current used fair market price?

2) I'm looking at a 35 or 50 Summicron. How is the bokeh on these two lenses? Would you suggest a Zeiss instead?


Thank you
Jack



Aug 01, 2012 at 12:39 AM
millsart
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p.1 #2 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


1) $2000-3000 depending on condition, number of actuations and market demand at a given moment ie; did 3 people just list on B&S and its a buyers market

2) totally subjective. The Zeiss look is different than the Leica look, and even amongst Zeiss lenses there is a world of difference between a 50 2.0 Plannar and a 50 1.5 Sonnar. All comes down to subject aesthetic taste and your own preference for how a lens renders ie; "character" vs clinical sharpness. Rather depends on what you like to shoot.

FYI, my favorite lens on my m8.2 was the Zeiss 35mm f2.8 Biogon C. Small and light, affordable (as far as M mount glass goes) and very sharp but with a nice smooth transition giving a bit creamier bokeh at f2.8 than the f2.0 version. F2.8 may be a bit slow for you though and the m8 is a rather poor high ISO camera.




Aug 01, 2012 at 12:54 AM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #3 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


As its 1.3x crop 35mm might be better idea.

Voigtlaender makes "odd" 40mm f1.4, which is fast and on M8.2 it should have FOV of 52mm or so (which means perfectly normal). Focuses to 0.7m (quite close for rangefinder lens). Only issue is bit flare and not being tack sharp at f1.4. Yea and its small, like really small.

It was actually my idea of getting this lens if I ever bought M8.2 (or M8)..

Otherwise I had 35mm f1.4 from same manufacturer, seemed like fine lens. Tho I kinda like Voigtlaender rendering and colors. Might not be for everyone.. Advantage is that those lens are pretty near to Zeiss quality while being cheapest option for M camera.

There should be 40mm Cron aswell and maybe Minolta counterpart.



Aug 01, 2012 at 01:01 AM
allstarimaging
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p.1 #4 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


I am leaning towards a 35mm Cron or Zeiss. Between the two it depends on which one is sharper wide open and the bokeh


Aug 01, 2012 at 01:23 AM
aleksanderpolo
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p.1 #5 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


You can check their MTF on Zeiss and Leica's website.

http://lenses.zeiss.com/photo/en_DE/service/download_center/current_data_sheets/current_data_sheets_zeiss_ikon.html

http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/2181.html

The ZM 35/2 is very good across the frame.



Aug 01, 2012 at 02:48 AM
Bijltje
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p.1 #6 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


1: I think it is. The M8 is a beautiful camera when u know its limitations (rangefinder, high ISO)
When I bought the m8 the UV/IR filters were also a pain because they were 100 euro to 225 euro (18 SE) a filter. So I had to pay an extra 500 euro only for the filters.

But today with many M8 users switched to the M9 there are many used filters to find for low prices. So thats not really a problem any more.

What is important when buying, check if the rangefinder is correct. Take your lens with u and try it and check the focus on a big screen like that of a laptop.


2: My personal favorit on the M8 or M8.2 is the 28mm summicron. A lot more expensive than the 50 summicron and even the 35 summicron. But for me still the by far most wonderfull lens to use on the M8. I liked the combo even more than my M9 with 35 cron.

I have had all lenses u mention, 28 biogob, 28 cron ASPH, 35 biogon, 35 C-biogon, 35 cron ASPH, 50 planar and 50 cron.
At the end I kept the leica's and sold the zeiss's.

Between the 50 cron and 50 planar I like the colors of the cron better. Zeiss gives little bit harder pictures with more contrast, harder colors and really modern rendering.
The 50 cron gives more forgiving colors (better for people shots I think, for landscape ect the zeiss colors can be more vivid) and has a little bit more classic rendering wide open.
But still the 50 cron is amazingly sharp. I found it to be sharper than my 50 planar, trough not by much difference.
The build of the 50 zeiss is pretty good, but the leica is a step above. My 50 cron is from 1996 and still works like its made yesterday.

Here a good review with great images:
http://www.135street.com/?p=358


For the 35's. I never really bonded with the 35/2 zeiss. Without coding it gives bad corners and I never really got used to coding the lens with a sharpy. So I traded it in pretty soon for a 35/2.8 C-biogon.
The 35 c-biogon was amazing. Really small and great performance. Colors are great, and almost no problems with flare.
But the f/2.8 can be a little slow for a all purpose lens. So I traded it in for a 35 cron ASPH and can't be more happy.
Also really small but a stop faster, performance is great with great sharpness.

I took some testshots lately with the 35 cron ASPH:



and here bigger files of both pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28040143@N05/7598554812/sizes/k/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28040143@N05/7598568232/sizes/k/in/photostream/

Both on the M9, straight out the camera without any post processing.


As for the 28's. The 28 biogon is stunning. It had great contrast and colors, really zeiss like, more than I got with all the other ZM's I got.
But again speed so got a 28 cron. It has less contrast than the 28 biogon. But with some vignetting and nice colors it gives absolute the best pictures I got from any lens.

the same scene as above but with the 28 cron, cropped to 35mm crop to have a view of how the 28 is on the M8 agains the 35 on m9. No post processing.



At the end all lenses are good and a joy to use. But for me in these cases the leica's have the edge with is worth the extra costs.
Have a look at the 50 sonnar trough, amazing with the classic rendering and not that expensive compared to the leica's



Aug 01, 2012 at 11:52 AM
allstarimaging
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p.1 #7 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


Bijltje. Thank you very much for taking the time to provide such an in depth response. Your insights and the links you have provided are very helpful and they provide excellent information.
Jack



Aug 01, 2012 at 05:06 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #8 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


My question to users like millsart, who have used more current aps-c sensors, is just how bad is the high ISO? Is it better to push the files in the raw converter, rather than raising ISO?

For a long time, I've been considering either buying an M8.2, or waiting for M9 prices to drop a little more, because I'd like to shoot a rangefinder for fun sometimes. I actually often add a little grain to files after the fact, so I'm not too concerned about high ISO, but it it's much worse than something like the NEX-5N by a couple of stops, that may be pushing it, for me.



Aug 01, 2012 at 05:49 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #9 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/leica_m82_review/sample_images/

Down on right side is ISO 2500 RAW sample.

You can do your judgement, but yes its horrible. Considering that after some polishing today Samsung NX20 or NX200 looks at ISO 3200 much better (in small size you wont even know its that high). Yup there was some development. Not mentioning NEX-5N which is IMHO class leading. I wouldnt say its "couple of stops" but rather 4-5 eV.



Aug 01, 2012 at 09:26 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.1 #10 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


I have found that pushing the files produces very similar results to raising the ISO. It is not even "high ISO" performance that is poor - it is low-to-mid ISO performance. It is so bad that I try to never go higher than ISO320/640-ish. However, there are certain situations where you can get away with more but for most of my shooting, this is the limit for my personal needs.


Aug 01, 2012 at 09:34 PM
 

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douglasf13
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p.1 #11 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


Thanks for the info.


Aug 01, 2012 at 09:51 PM
millsart
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p.1 #12 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


Its not the worst "grain" quality I've seen, so if your doing only B/W you can work with it at moderate ISO's but for color work I thought it was pretty darn horrible.

Its honestly rather night and day between a M8 and NEX5n at ISO800 and above.

I pretty much only shot B/W with my M8.2 though even at base ISO because of the IR issues (and not wanting to buy filters for all my various sized lenses like the 77mm VC15mm)

There are some good things about a M8.2, but honestly if your going to spend $2000+ on one I think you get more bang for your buck on a M9, which perhaps might come down to more reasonable prices. I paid $5300 for my M9 which had just a little cosmetic wear about a year and a half ago.

Its just a better all around camera being FF, having higher resolution, not having the IR issues, having bracketing, better high ISO (though still not great) etc.

M8.2 would be a really cool/fun camera for $600 or so, but being a Leica they cost a fortune still in regards to what a rather dated and in some ways flawed camera it was, even at the time of release.




Aug 01, 2012 at 10:38 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #13 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking. Thanks, millsart. I've seen some M9s go in the low to mid $4K range lately, so I'll just hold out a while. I don't really need it. I've just kinda wanted one since it was released.


Aug 01, 2012 at 10:58 PM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #14 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


Very similar thoughts here... Seems the m8 sensor is just a little too dated for what I'd like, which is a great shame :-(, as they're considerably less than a m9! I think I'll continue shooting film for a while in this area. Not like I even have any m lenses, so when/if I do get one itll be quite a considerable expense for me.


Aug 01, 2012 at 11:16 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #15 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


douglasf13 wrote:
Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinking. Thanks, millsart. I've seen some M9s go in the low to mid $4K range lately, so I'll just hold out a while. I don't really need it. I've just kinda wanted one since it was released.


Be careful Doug! Once you try one of these things, you get hooked for life



Aug 01, 2012 at 11:25 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #16 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


Considering you can get some fast lens for it like Voigtlaender 35mm f1.2 or 50mm f1.1 (yea I know not prettiest bokeh), its not that useless if you keep shooting at base or +1 eV ISO.

I saw quite a lot of nice pics from Leica M8 or M8.2. Its just about convenience I think. Simply its a quite limiting piece of equipment. M9 is sorta easier on its users.

Tho with current prices of M8, well I think I could imagine better stuff bought for 2000 USD, even tho I really like Leica.



Aug 01, 2012 at 11:34 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #17 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


edwardkaraa wrote:
Be careful Doug! Once you try one of these things, you get hooked for life


No kidding, I know. I've shot rangefinders before. I'm entrenched in digital at this point, so I've been waiting for a digital solution with prices I can justify. Now that M9s are coming down some, and so are digital backs for my 2 Hasselblads, I may be able to finally come full circle back to pseudo-film shooting in the next year or two and buy both.. I've seen a few M8's go for less than $1800 lately, but I'm just gonna hold out for the M9...or just say to heck with it all and consider an M10, whenever it is announced.

Hilariously, I NEARLY sold all of my A900 and Zeiss gear for an M9 when the M9 was released, and I wimped out. I've since been on a gear rollercoaster that likely could have been solved with that move, but I couldn't justify the buy in price back then, since I was newly married and starting a new business. Instead, I spent a lot of time trying to become comfortable with little cameras like NEX with M lenses, which never totally satisfied me.

I'm pretty content with the X100, in terms of an AF camera, and I bring it everywhere, but I miss manual focus, and I just don't get the joy out of NEX cameras that I'd like. Plus, my lovely wife is warming to the idea of the M9 at $3-4k, since she knows I wanted to spend $7K a few years ago.




Aug 01, 2012 at 11:42 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #18 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


Mescalamba wrote:
Considering you can get some fast lens for it like Voigtlaender 35mm f1.2 or 50mm f1.1 (yea I know not prettiest bokeh), its not that useless if you keep shooting at base or +1 eV ISO.

I saw quite a lot of nice pics from Leica M8 or M8.2. Its just about convenience I think. Simply its a quite limiting piece of equipment. M9 is sorta easier on its users.

Tho with current prices of M8, well I think I could imagine better stuff bought for 2000 USD, even tho I really like Leica.


Yeah, good point, although I'm interested in smaller lenses, like the Skopar 35/2.5, ZM 35/2.8, Summicron 35 IV, etc.



Aug 01, 2012 at 11:48 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #19 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


douglasf13 wrote:
Plus, my lovely wife is warming to the idea of the M9 at $3-4k, since she knows I wanted to spend $7K a few years ago.



That's the auspicious time no doubt



Aug 01, 2012 at 11:55 PM
AshNZ
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p.1 #20 · Leica m8.2 purchase?


M8 and 28 Summicron are a match made in heaven.

You only buy an M9 if you want to print large (I print wonderful 22 x 17 photos with my M8 on my Epson) and 1-2 stops of ISO. Or, you need/want very wide angle and therefore Full Frame.

I 'reluctantly' bought an M8 instead of an M9 a year ago with absolutely no regrets. I assumed if I really liked the M8 I would dive into an M9 pretty soon after - I currently have no plans to switch



Aug 02, 2012 at 02:43 AM





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