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Archive 2012 · Rebel T4i and Raw
  
 
WestFalcon
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Rebel T4i and Raw


I can't open raw images with PS CS5 on my new t4i camera. Do I have to buy CS6 to do this or is there an available download? thanks


Jul 29, 2012 at 03:29 AM
stanj
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Rebel T4i and Raw


You can use the free DPP that came with the camera, or the free DNG converter to convert to DNG first and then open it in CS5. Or you could use LR4 or new CS6. So many choices!


Jul 29, 2012 at 03:35 AM
CW100
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Rebel T4i and Raw


stanj wrote:
You can use the free DPP that came with the camera, or the free DNG converter to convert to DNG first and then open it in CS5. Or you could use LR4 or new CS6. So many choices!


Photoshop forces you to upgrade !






Jul 30, 2012 at 11:14 AM
WestFalcon
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Rebel T4i and Raw


CW100......that's a gripe I have with Adobe. Sometimes I think Canon and Adobe have a little undercover program which helps both of them take in more profit. It seems that Adobe or Canon could make these files useable by a simple download for CS5 but that wouldn't sell CS 6 then would it? I want my raw files to open easily as they do now without going thru some other steps...shame on both companies in my opinion. All my PS upgrades have happened after I buy a new camera and low and behold, the raws don't open up and there goes another $200 for a PS upgrade.


Jul 30, 2012 at 12:10 PM
rhyder
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Rebel T4i and Raw


WestFalcon wrote:
CW100......that's a gripe I have with Adobe. Sometimes I think Canon and Adobe have a little undercover program which helps both of them take in more profit. It seems that Adobe or Canon could make these files useable by a simple download for CS5 but that wouldn't sell CS 6 then would it? I want my raw files to open easily as they do now without going thru some other steps...shame on both companies in my opinion. All my PS upgrades have happened after I buy a new camera and low and behold, the raws don't open up and there
...Show more

"Sometimes I think Canon and Adobe have a little undercover program which helps both of them take in more profit."

How paranoid do you have to be to say this. Is everyone out to cheat you or just Adobe and Canon? Is it true Adobe and Canon has hired a small task force just to figure out ways to screw you over? You've evidently noticed that Adobe has now upgraded to CS6, how long should they keep working on CS5 just because YOU bought a new camera? Did you bother to read Stanj's post? If you're relying on a software you seem to hate for your editing needs....maybe somethings wrong with your work flow..............



Jul 30, 2012 at 12:38 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Rebel T4i and Raw


Simple rule of thumb.

New camera = the lates version of photoshop.

No one is forcing you to use photoshop .
As pointed out Adobe give you a FREE workaround. And the software that came FREE with your camera can output a tiff file to put thru photoshop.

Lightroom4 will give you all the the new version of ACR and let you send files to photoshop . But actually most of the time lr4 does all the jobs you need (love LR , it's just so easy and fast). And the cost of lr4 is now not as heavy as lr3 was so its a worthwhile purchase.

One thing to be in mind though. If you don't upgrade from CS5 to CS6 you are likely to be either stuck on cs5 or be forced to pay FULL price for the next version of photoshop. Adobe tried to change the upgrade policy this time round so that cs4 was not part of the upgrade. They had to backtrack on that but you can bet next time round they won't be so charitable.



Jul 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM
pKai
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Rebel T4i and Raw


Get Lightroom 4.1 for $149 and say goodbye to Photoshop for 95% of all photography tasks. For the other 5%, you can open in CS5 from Lightroom since its LR that does the RAW conversion.

Workflow in LR is heaven compared to anything else, IMHO.



Jul 30, 2012 at 03:01 PM
Bsmooth
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Rebel T4i and Raw


Charitable ? When the heck have any companies been charitable ? If Adobe at all has been this, I must have missed it.
These have only one thing on there greedy little minds, and thats making money. Yes I will agree there must be some point when you have to upgrade, but its the way or not the way they do it that messes with how people can use it, if at all.
If this isn't true, why hasn't Adobe adjusted there versions of Photoshop to ones that are specifically directed at just photographers. In other words one that has layers and the things we do need, but not all the other junk, aimed at 3D and video apps.
I'm sure some will say Lightroom does this, but it really doesn't.
Why because they can sell you a package that costs a lot more with more stuff than you need !
Do photographers really need a package that costs $600 or more ?



Jul 30, 2012 at 04:21 PM
pKai
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Rebel T4i and Raw


Bsmooth wrote:
Charitable ? When the heck have any companies been charitable ? If Adobe at all has been this, I must have missed it.
These have only one thing on there greedy little minds, and thats making money. Yes I will agree there must be some point when you have to upgrade, but its the way or not the way they do it that messes with how people can use it, if at all.
If this isn't true, why hasn't Adobe adjusted there versions of Photoshop to ones that are specifically directed at just photographers. In other words one that has
...Show more

Lightroom does NOT do layers... you are right about that. That's the 5% I mentioned above you still need Photoshop for.

CS6 (I think 5 too) has a little menu at the top-right that customizes what you see tool-wise. "Photography" is one of the choices and does a pretty good job of hiding all the crap that graphic artists would want, but photographers don't. You can always switch around to taste.

IMHO, the vast majority of photographers could get by with LR alone. Photoshop Elements is another option beyond LR... its another $149. Full-blown Photoshop is nice, but not needed for many people. Since I began using LR about 3 years ago, I use PS less and less. with LR4, my PS use went down to about maybe 5% of all images I use.



Jul 30, 2012 at 04:35 PM
thedutt
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Rebel T4i and Raw


IMHO, for most of my amature needs, the adjustment brush function of Light room does everything I would want to do using layers, only much much much more conveniently and faster. Once I discovered this function, I stopped using photoshop (elements) completely.


pKai wrote:
Lightroom does NOT do layers... you are right about that. That's the 5% I mentioned above you still need Photoshop for.

CS6 (I think 5 too) has a little menu at the top-right that customizes what you see tool-wise. "Photography" is one of the choices and does a pretty good job of hiding all the crap that graphic artists would want, but photographers don't. You can always switch around to taste.

IMHO, the vast majority of photographers could get by with LR alone. Photoshop Elements is another option beyond LR... its another $149. Full-blown Photoshop is nice, but not needed for many
...Show more



Jul 30, 2012 at 04:38 PM
 

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pKai
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Rebel T4i and Raw


One more thing about LR/PS and layers..... Many of the things photographers use layers for involves the idea of not harming the pixels in layers below... If you trash something, delete the layer and you're none the worse for wear.

LR, OTOH, employs technology that DOES NOT TOUCH any actual pixels regardless of what you do to the image. This is why there is no "save" function in LR. Every adjustment you make is stored in a database and applied in memory to the original image every time you view it. The actual original RAW file is never touched or overwritten. At any point in time, you can go back in the history and undo an adjustment. This functionality has made the use of PS layers solely to "save the pixels" obsolete.

If you then want a file (usually a JPG) with all your adjustments applied to where it can be viewed outside LR, you export the image according to whatever specs you want such as size, pixel density, etc... You now have your untouched original RAW file plus the JPG you just made.



Jul 30, 2012 at 07:11 PM
dsjtecserv
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Rebel T4i and Raw


pKai wrote:
One more thing about LR/PS and layers..... Many of the things photographers use layers for involves the idea of not harming the pixels in layers below... If you trash something, delete the layer and you're none the worse for wear.

LR, OTOH, employs technology that DOES NOT TOUCH any actual pixels regardless of what you do to the image. This is why there is no "save" function in LR. Every adjustment you make is stored in a database and applied in memory to the original image every time you view it. The actual original RAW file is never touched or overwritten.
...Show more

Not really. In order to do that you have to go linearly back in history, undoing everything you did after the edit in question (unless LR has added a means of skipping back and undoing just individual actions that I'm not aware of). With layers you can experiment freely with the effect of that layer, including deleting the layer entirely, regardless of subsequent changes made globally or to other layers. I find this PS feature alone worth the price of admission and wouldn't be comfortable translating my workflow to Lightroom until the same or similar capability is provided.

Also note that working in Photoshop won't affect the original pixels of the raw file whether one uses layers or not, since one would be working on a tiff or jpeg saved (or "exported") from ACR or other raw editor. I can make the same edits to the raw in ACR as I would make in LR (and save the changes in a database rather than modifying the original file, same as LR), then move to PS for the remaining work that requires its capabilities. Thus I'm not using layers to avoid permanently affecting my raw file, but rather to take advantage of the additional flexibility and power of layers.


If you then want a file (usually a JPG) with all your adjustments applied to where it can be viewed outside LR, you export the image according to whatever specs you want such as size, pixel density, etc... You now have your untouched original RAW file plus the JPG you just made.

Same as with ACR/PS.

Dave



Jul 30, 2012 at 08:01 PM
pKai
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Rebel T4i and Raw


dsjtecserv wrote:
Not really. In order to do that you have to go linearly back in history, undoing everything you did after the edit in question (unless LR has added a means of skipping back and undoing just individual actions that I'm not aware of). With layers you can experiment freely with the effect of that layer, including deleting the layer entirely, regardless of subsequent changes made globally or to other layers. I find this PS feature alone worth the price of admission and wouldn't be comfortable translating my workflow to Lightroom until the same or similar capability is provided.

Also note that
...Show more

Since LR4 tells you exactly what you did with each adjustment with how many values you added or subtracted and the end result, all you need to do is go to the slider and undo it. For example, if your history looks like this

Clarity +100 100
Contrast +10 10
etc...

If you want to undo the contrast, all you need to do is subtract 10 at the slider. The items that do not have a numerical representation such as the Adjustment Brush, Spot Removal, Graduated Filter, etc, can be undone by clicking on the tool. The edited spots will then show up inside the image as a grey dot (adjustment brush, graduated filter) or little circles (spot removal) -- you can then right-click and delete those individually. Crops can be adjusted by clicking on the crop tool and adjusting.

I've been using PS since before CS (1990-something) and Lightroom since version 1. I find that with each subsequent version of LR I use PS less and less. So far, I've been upgrading both -- I have LR4 and CS6. I am re-evaluating this position and may not need/want CS7 when it comes out. My image editing requirements have not changed....

The LR cataloging is amazing and once I got the hang of working my workflow "top-down" in the develop module, I hardly ever find myself wanting to undo an adjustment in the middle of the list. I do go back and adjust items I've adjusted before as needed. For example, I may decide the overall saturation which I adjusted towards the top of the workflow needs further tweaking after I adjust the luminance of a particular color, which is towards the bottom of the workflow. No need to "undo" my original saturation adjustment. I just look in the history to see what I did and go back and do something else to it.

I still use PS to run some actions I've written such as backscatter removal for underwater shots. Also, the Content Aware functions in CS6 are great when needing to go beyond what Spot Removal does. Of course, HDR work happens all in PS as does BW processing. LR can do BW, but I find the results from PS superior.

Anything involving masks and heavy editing, of course happens in PS. I tend not to do much of this since IMHO, a photograph edited past a certain point ceases to be just a photograph and somewhere in there turns into "digital art"..... Nothing wrong with digital art.... but I'm a photographer. Masking I used to do for the purposes of local exposure/color/contrast, etc correction, I now do with the LR graduated filter, adjustment brush, and other associated sliders.

I find that using LR4, I can produce about twice as many finished images in a given amount of time than by using PS alone and my images start out "organized" from the point of import and stay that way. IMHO, the "Bridge-->ACR-->PS" cataloging workflow was a royal PITA. With LR, there's no need to keep track of the RAW, the PSD, the TIFF, the JPGs, etc.... I just have the RAW and the finished JPGs I produce for particular purposes... the latter which will never get edited.

YMMV!



Edited on Jul 30, 2012 at 09:38 PM · View previous versions



Jul 30, 2012 at 09:09 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Rebel T4i and Raw


WestFalcon wrote:
CW100......that's a gripe I have with Adobe. Sometimes I think Canon and Adobe have a little undercover program which helps both of them take in more profit. It seems that Adobe or Canon could make these files useable by a simple download for CS5 but that wouldn't sell CS 6 then would it? I want my raw files to open easily as they do now without going thru some other steps...shame on both companies in my opinion. All my PS upgrades have happened after I buy a new camera and low and behold, the raws don't open up and there
...Show more

If you don't wanna fork up the bucks to upgrade your old copy of CS5 PS, just use DPP for basic tweaks/conversion until you're richer. You can set DPP to automatically open the converted TIFF/JPEG in PS, ready for further tweak outs. DPP/PS makes a good team. Oddly, my CS5 opens all my RAWs since of my 5D2/7D/E-P3 are now ancient but I don't care for ACR's chunky implementation. ACR and Bridge feel like they were designed in 1990 and added as an afterthought to PS.



Jul 30, 2012 at 09:35 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Rebel T4i and Raw


WestFalcon wrote:
CW100......that's a gripe I have with Adobe. Sometimes I think Canon and Adobe have a little undercover program which helps both of them take in more profit. It seems that Adobe or Canon could make these files useable by a simple download for CS5 but that wouldn't sell CS 6 then would it? I want my raw files to open easily as they do now without going thru some other steps...shame on both companies in my opinion. All my PS upgrades have happened after I buy a new camera and low and behold, the raws don't open up and there
...Show more

Hello, what has Canon got to do with this? Canon has never charged for its RAW software; Canon provides DPP free with every new DSLR. DPP will even transfer your converted RAW image directly into Photoshop if you like.

Adobe long ago decided that camera compatibility was a way to turn Photoshop (or Lightroom) into an annuity revenue stream. But there is absolutely no requirement to use Adobe Camera RAW in order to use Photoshop; DPP is free with your camera.

However, I think it's churlish to complain about this given how much Adobe has invested (and keeps on investing) in improving ACR. I could care less about Photoshop upgrades--I haven't used Photoshop heavily in years--but I do rely on ACR and Bridge for my workflow and am happy to pay Adobe a couple hundred bucks every 2-3 years to improve my workflow results and efficiency. That works out to about $6 a month, more or less what I spend in Starbucks on a good day. In return for my patronage, I've received amazing improvements in conversion quality, noise reduction, color profiles, lens corrections (including for 3rd party lenses) and the list goes on.



Jul 31, 2012 at 06:35 AM
WestFalcon
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Rebel T4i and Raw


Maybe it's more of an Adobe thing than Canon....I really like CS5 and use layers all the time so LR will not do it for me. I guess I will have to help poor Adobe out again and cough up another 200 bucks. I like the convenience of ACR but am retired so the extra bucks spent are not something I enjoy doing everytime a new model comes out.
Some of the responses are helpful here and some are just nasty but that's the world we live in. I think Adobe could easily rectify thios with a download but their marketers say no, lets force these people to upgrade. I would gladly pay $20 for an upgrade.....they could still make money.



Jul 31, 2012 at 09:39 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Rebel T4i and Raw


WestFalcon wrote:
Maybe it's more of an Adobe thing than Canon....I really like CS5 and use layers all the time so LR will not do it for me. I guess I will have to help poor Adobe out again and cough up another 200 bucks. I like the convenience of ACR but am retired so the extra bucks spent are not something I enjoy doing everytime a new model comes out.
Some of the responses are helpful here and some are just nasty but that's the world we live in. I think Adobe could easily rectify thios with a download but their marketers
...Show more

but with every build of ACR you get a bit more . thats what you pay for.

would people be hapy with backwards compatable RAW on the old ACR . probably most would jump at it. But that would mean lossing out on the better versions of ACR . take that route back to its logical conclusion and can you imaging what todays high MP sensors would look like usin much older versions of ACR. going the other way tells you a fair amount of the story.
Take a very old raw file from a digital body thats a few generations old (20D for example) and run it thru the newer ACR version . its much better.

Now as mentioned before you can quite easily stay using CS5 with you new T4i , you just need the FREE DNG converter provided by Adobe . yes its another step but the old ACR will then read your DNG raw file.
or LR4 which i know you say does not do what you want. but I think you will be surprised . It sends an image into CS5 easily which can then be sent back to LR4 .


Do I like or agree with Adobe's cost of entry into photoshop? hell no its way over priced . they get away with it by being the Industry standard .



Jul 31, 2012 at 11:18 AM
WestFalcon
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Rebel T4i and Raw


I meant 20 bucks for a download not an upgrade......thanks Ian...I don't mind a kind critique but some of others are just nasty.


Jul 31, 2012 at 12:28 PM
dsjtecserv
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Rebel T4i and Raw


pKai wrote:
Since LR4 tells you exactly what you did with each adjustment with how many values you added or subtracted and the end result, all you need to do is go to the slider and undo it. For example, if your history looks like this

Clarity +100 100
Contrast +10 10
etc...

If you want to undo the contrast, all you need to do is subtract 10 at the slider. The items that do not have a numerical representation such as the Adjustment Brush, Spot Removal, Graduated Filter, etc, can be undone by clicking on the tool. The edited spots will then show
...Show more

That sounds like an excessive amount of work just to delete something, compared with deleting a layer, but I guess you'd get used to it. However, I don't see this equaling the ability to adjust the strength or characteristics of a layer once it is created. For instance, I can create a curves layer with a mask, and subsequently modify the curve, add to or subtract from the mask, use levels or blur on the mask to fine tune its effect, reduce layer opacity, etc. I can do all that without having to find one or more previous action in history and modify them one-by-one; I can make the modifications directly on the layer and instantly see the results. I don't see the equivalent ability to do that in LR, at least not as cleanly and directly as the layers approach provides.

I've looked at making a transition to LR at several points but I just don't see how I could replicate the functions I use frequently in PS with the same efficiency or flexibility. I suspect that given enough time I'd learn how to produce similar results using LR's approach, but I haven't seem enough outright advantages to LR to entice me to undertake the relearning process. That's just my mileage, I guess.

Dave



Jul 31, 2012 at 01:10 PM
pKai
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Rebel T4i and Raw


dsjtecserv wrote:
That sounds like an excessive amount of work just to delete something, compared with deleting a layer, but I guess you'd get used to it. However, I don't see this equaling the ability to adjust the strength or characteristics of a layer once it is created. For instance, I can create a curves layer with a mask, and subsequently modify the curve, add to or subtract from the mask, use levels or blur on the mask to fine tune its effect, reduce layer opacity, etc. I can do all that without having to find one or more previous action

I've looked at making a transition to LR at several points but I just don't see how I could replicate the functions I use frequently in PS with the same efficiency or flexibility. I suspect that given enough time I'd learn how to produce similar results using LR's approach, but I haven't seem enough outright advantages to LR to entice me to undertake the relearning process. That's just my mileage, I guess.

Dave
...Show more

Sounds like a lot of your "normal" workflow involves things that are beyond LR such as what I have highlighted above. OTOH, I generally don't do so much image manipulation for my purposes.

What I suggest you do is find someone that is as well-versed in LR as you are in PS and compare notes. This will help you decide. I would volunteer for this if we were not 1500 miles apart...

What I experienced is that in the areas where LR could take over for PS, the work went much quicker thereafter. My end result is about a 95/5 split between LR and Photoshop work. Your split may turn out to be 80/20, but IMHO, for the 80% (or whatever amount) of work you shift to LR, things will go faster...... IDK about you, but I enjoy making images much more than I enjoy post. If I could afford it, I would hire someone to do it all for me.

Best of luck!




Jul 31, 2012 at 01:51 PM
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