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Archive 2012 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]
  
 
LeTiger
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


Hey all, just wanted to start off by saying that I don't want this to turn into a bash/praise/pitchfork riot thread, something wrong happened to me, and I am looking for advice to resolve the conflict in the best manner possible.

For reference, I am a CPS Gold member.

On July 13th, I shipped my 7D, and 24-70 2.8 to Canon Irvine for repair.

I had purchased the lens here on FM two years ago, and the zoom ring no longer fully extended (so that at full range it was more of a 26-67mm) I was hoping for Canon to give me an estimate for repair, after which I would decide if repairing was worth it.

The exact description I sent the lens in with was "Has lost zoom range at short & long end, now is a 26-67, not 24-70 (as the zoom doesn't fully extend either way anymore)"

Upon recieving the lens, Canon emailed me a quote for $274.59, stating on the spec sheet "Impact damage to lens. Remove damaged filter. Check all to factory specs. CPS 30% applied. Please respond to estimate."

I called Canon, and "okayed" the repair, but made sure to let the service representative that I had sent in the lens with a filter, and that the filter was absolutely fine, restating the original reason I had sent the lens in, and the customer rep stated that she made a note of such in the file, as well as requesting that the filter also be sent back to me (an $88 B+W haze)

On July 23rd, I recieved a revised statement quoting the same, but with a "new" repair price of $462.37. This seemed outrageous to me, but since the lens was already there, and the reason I had sent it in was to fix it up because I was planning on selling it, I bit the bullet and told them to repair it. (A friend had the same issue on his repaired for about $180 the previous month, so I should have sensed something was up...) The revised estimate made no note of the "additions" that were supposedly added on my previous call, so I assumed they were on an internal repair log, and that things were taken care of.

Jump to today, I received the lens back, (no filter even present...), and with a HUGE chip out of the lens cap. The repair sheet stated: "Your product has been examined and it was found that the lens assumbly had been impacted causing the zoom ring to catch. The lens assembly was replaced. Adjusted centerting/tilt/best focus & cleaning. Product functions were confirmed. - Again, no mention of the addendum that had supposedly been "added" by my chat with customer service on the phone...

The (replaced) parts list was such:
Sleeve filter, focusing ring, Lens Assy 4-5th group, rubber mount, shield dust, collar, power diaphragm assy.

I was floored, not only had I paid for more than I bargained, but my lens was actually FURTHER damaged between when I shipped it, and when it came back to me.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This leads me to two possibilities:

1. USPS damaged the package while en-route, and Canon signed for it (releasing USPS of liability) - This seems strange to me as first, I had the package professionally packed infront of my eyes at a packing center, and second, it was clearly marked as insured, with $2100 taken out as insurance on shipping (as I had shipped it attached to my 7D body)

2. While at Canon Irvine, and between their appraisal of the initial cost, and the actual fixing of the lens, the lens was dropped in-house. Based to the damage/chip to the lens cap (and what I can only assume is the poor remnants of my B+W filter) this thing would have to been dropped from at least standing height, and from how well it was packaged, I have a very hard time seeing how you could damage a package this bad, and still have Canon Irvine accept it.


I called Irvine today, and was informed that because it was accepted by them, and that they don't think the damage was done while shipped back to me (via FedEx) that I need to file an insurance claim with USPS. This irks me for two reasons, first that Canon Irvine would have had the gall to accept the damaged package, and second, should I even be successful, I still paid out a repair cost to Canon that I had not even incurred! (also, as it was attached to my 7D, it may have also been damaged past what I initially sent it in for...)

I am at a deep loss for what steps to take next, and would appreciate any input that fellow FM'ers have to offer, I am regretful that my experience may turn into one of those Canon repair "horror" stories, and I sincerely hope that a resolution can be made, any advice would help.

The lens before shipment:
LensFront
LensCapBefore
LensZoomIssue

The lens upon return (hastily taken, was a bit shaken)
NoticeScratchesNearTop
LensCapAfter

Feeling at a loss in rainy southeast Alaska,

- Guthrie

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
******************************************************************************
UPDATE 8/3/12

Hey All!

Quick/Final update:

First off, thank EVERYONE for their kind advice, it really helped me sort out how I want to deal with this.

I called Canon on Wednesday, and upon reaching a manager, stated my previous reasonings, they informed me that even if all the boxes are signed for, they are still sent back if when at opening, damage is detected. I pointed out that if that was the case, then the damage would have had to occur while at their facility. I referenced the previous call to their customer care where I stated quite clearly that the lens, and filter were not impact damaged, which is on tape for the record. I was then put on with a supervisor who then escalated the issue to canon customer relations.

I re-explained everything as above, and was told that Canon stands 100% behind their technicians, and that the customer rep couldn't explain how or when the damage occurred (assuming it occurred at their factory), or why then, they didn't send the package back if it was damaged. The rep did offer a consolation of trying to find a used replacement filter for the one discarded at the factory, but I am still out about $450.

All I really wanted was to know where in the chain my lens was dropped... but I guess that isn't happening.

Notes based on FM feedback:
1. I had seen no literature canon sent to me indicating I needed to remove filters before shipping
2. Re-Sending in the body attached, probably not the best of ideas, I was in a bit of a rush, which is why I brought the whole thing down to professional packaging services.
3. Small claims court - ugh, no thanks, even more money/headache
4. Just letting it slip by due to small monetary amount in the long run - Money is money, it could be 1k next time, who knows, that was even after my 30% CPS applied, I have no desire to pay any more than I have to for damage I did not incur.


The Future
Based on my experience, I am no longer recommending Canon to others, the process was just too tiring to put anyone else through. (on the same note, I will not be using USPS for high-dollar shipments anymore, though I really do like to support them, as once they're gone, UPS and FedEx prices will inevitably creep upwards)

I am also discontinuing my use of Canon equipment past this point, as the process of sorting this out has no appeal to me over the long term, and one of their "pro" lenses, over normal usage scenarios lasted me under two years before developing quirks.

Thank you again everyone for your kind advice and time taken to reply, it really helped me get my head around this. All the best to you, and to people of the future searching this post, please do what you can to not fall into what happened above.

Edited on Aug 03, 2012 at 04:02 PM · View previous versions



Jul 28, 2012 at 06:52 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


Not a great situation , and unfortunately I can see many potential pitfalls ahead trying to claim back off the carrier. Most notably did canon send the original packaging back with the repaired lens? If not then its likely destroyed and that leaves you with little or no evidence of impact damage.

As for canon taking in a damaged package. I can see its likely quite easy to do that . I very much doubt your little box arrived on its own, so in all likely hood the package was never seen when signed for.

Good luck ,



Jul 28, 2012 at 07:26 AM
johneasterly
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


I'm just sayin - - BUT I worked for a large company dealing in repairs of expensive electronics and I saw this at more than one company:

USPS, FedEx and UPS all bring in packages on a cart or hand carry them, the shipping/receiving people do not even look at the packages, all they do is quickly sign the hand held computer thing and they leave the packages in a pile until they get around to opening them. There is no 1 on 1 inspection of the package and they are opened in a hurry also. SO - filing a claim on either end gets to be almost impossible to prove who and when items were damaged.

And most claims need to have photos of the actual shipping box before it is opened to file a legitimate claim for shipping damage, if the box shows no sign of exterior damage then the answer is usually that it was improperlyh packaged no matter who packaged it - pro or not.

Just sayin, too bad about your problem but todays delivery systems aqnd repair places are not what they used to be



Jul 28, 2012 at 07:40 AM
arthurb
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


I had a similar problem with a guitar that I had shipped from the US to the UK last year. It arrived damaged, a small diameter pipe or bar had penetrated the packaging and damaged the instrument. My claim was passed from the USPS to our UK Royal Mail and back again and I ended up with no redress. The vendor had packed the thing very professionally, it was just poor handling by the shippers or the airline. These companies are very happy to takeout money and most times everything is ok, however when they screw up, the don't want to know.


Jul 28, 2012 at 07:57 AM
PaulB
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


You shipped the lens attached to the 7d and not as two separately packed items within the package.
Why exactly?
Was the body damaged? If not, then the damage to the lens perhaps happened when the body and lens had been separated.
Don't Canon request that lenses be sent to them without filters attached in the US? I'm sure they do here in the UK.
Was the filter damaged before you sent it in?
Perhaps next time photograph your gear just before it's packed to prove the condition it was sent in.
In my experience Canon use less packaging to send items back than I would feel happy with sending stuff to them but everything seems to work fine and safely.



Jul 28, 2012 at 10:05 AM
Nozzleforward
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


Having worked a shipping/recieving job in the past, I would assume that for damage like what is shown on your lenscap to be done to an item packed even somewhat properly inside a box, that box would have to have been trashed. I would think that even though I'm sure CPS gets many, many boxes every day, if an employee is unpacking something and the box looks like Jim Carey delivered it, they would make mention of that to try to avoid being held responsible for damaging the equipment.

At the same time, I've had many poor experiences with the post office. So if I had to side with one party over the other, I would be far more skeptical of USPS than CPS.

I guess my general question is this (And I'm betting it's in your mind too)... If CPS recieved a lens that was that badly damaged, but was sent to them for a fairly minor "zooming issue," why would they not contact you right away to confirm the condition of the lens and what exactly you sent it in for? If I'm the guy processing the order, when I look at a trashed lens, and I look at a form that says "Has lost zoom range at short & long end, now is a 26-67, not 24-70 (as the zoom doesn't fully extend either way anymore)" my first thought is "Hmmm, is this guy trying to pull a fast one?" That would prompt me to want to confirm what exactly was wrong with the lens, to make sure that my boss doesn't come back to me a week later wanting to know why Mr. Soandso's clean and check turned into a complete rebuild.

If I were you, I'd be pressing CPS for answers (answers better than a shoulder shrug). But that's just because I don't see how they could not catch something like that when it first came in. Besides, I would think they have (CCTV) cameras in their facility, maybe it'd be worth talking to someone that can look into it further, considering the repair bill ended up being about 35% of your lens' value.

(Edited because my math skills are not up to par)



Edited on Jul 28, 2012 at 01:50 PM · View previous versions



Jul 28, 2012 at 01:37 PM
netexpress
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


Guthrie, this really sucks. I've dealt with shipping damage at work for a couple of decades and in my opinion there is not much to be done here. USPS squished your lens on the way out to Canon most likely (as evidenced by Canon initial repair description showing impact damage to the filter). Canon disposed of the damaged packaging upon receipt (and the damaged filter). Thus USPS has no packaging to inspect to determine if the damage was done because of mishandling (most likely based on the height this thing would need to be dropped to be damaged like this) or because of poor packaging (less likely since you had it professionally done). So they won't settle.

You would have ended up paying probably $160 to have the lens fixed anyway. You paid $460 so you are out $300 (the difference) + $88 for the B&W and whatever the scratch costs you against the resale value. So under $500. That really sucks but it's not the kind of money that is going to impact your life in the long run thankfully. Bad things happen. I'd say sell the lens and get this behind you. There is really no other alternative.

Sorry for the bad news.



Jul 28, 2012 at 01:42 PM
goosemang
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


this is one of those situations where you get a manager on the phone and repeat yourself ad nauseum until you get your way.

ugh



Jul 28, 2012 at 01:44 PM
Gregory Edge
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


Gather all your evidence and file in small claims court. Canon most likely will settle out of court because it is cheaper than hiring an attorney in your state to represent them.


Jul 28, 2012 at 02:05 PM
garydavidjones
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


I am sorry you had this infuriating problem. I live about 30 miles from

the Irvine Canon repair facility so sometimes when I am busy I ship via

Fedex or UPS. Otherwise I drive it down and deliver the item in person.

I am a Gold CPS member too. The staff appear to be professional and

are friendly. However, they seem busy and rushed. More than once I have

had to remind them to send me the shot count for example.

Why did you include the filter?

I would not trust USPS. The morale of USPS is at an all time low.



Jul 28, 2012 at 03:44 PM
 

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omarlyn
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


LeTiger wrote:
...and I am looking for advice to resolve the conflict in the best manner possible.

- Guthrie


While I can't offer any advise beyond what's already been suggested in a few other replies, I can add the following:
As a few others have stated, receiving departments at large companies that receive loads of boxes by the cart-full can not realistically examine all packages for outward signs of damage at the moment they are delivered...it's just not practical. Even if they did do this, where would they draw the line between what's acceptable and what's not? I receive packages everyday and they come in all sorts of condition...if I had to rely on the outward appearance of a package, I might be rejecting half of them! Luckily, I have not had (knock on wood) any shipping damage with photo equipment inspite of the best efforts of the various shipping companies to inflict terminal damage
(see this recent thread for an example). I will reiterate the suggestion to take it up a notch with a higher management level at Canon and send all the pics that you have. Hope it works out for you!

Omar



Jul 29, 2012 at 07:07 PM
Sneakyracer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


Looking at the damage to your lens it sure looks like it was dropped when OUT of the package into a hard surface So IMHO Canon is responsible, call them. It happened on their watch.


Jul 29, 2012 at 08:00 PM
scalesusa
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


Sending a lens mounted on a body is a no no. Pack them separately in different boxes, and then into a larger box.

Professional packing can be the worst and most prone to damage, some of them do not have a clue.

I pack everying to withstand a minor war, and have never had a issue. Insurance is really only useful for something getting lost, you have to pack it to withstand crushing, drop kicking, etc.

I know of at least one post office where they drop kick them, my wife was appaled when she went to work in the post office and saw guys playing drop kick accross the room into the big hampers. If it missed and hit the concrete floor, it was try try again. The Postmaster was one of the old political appoiintee's and useless. Employees complained to the regional manager, but nothing was done.




Jul 29, 2012 at 11:15 PM
goosemang
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


this is tough because you ok'd the first $275 repair estimate which stated impact damage. so canon is not likely to admit they did anything... they're saying it was damaged from the start. I'm sure the box is gone so there's no way to prove they shouldn't have accepted it from USPS. I think you go to USPS and say, "hey, here are my images of this lens before I shipped it. here it is now. here's a report from canon saying impact damage upon initial inspection. you damaged it, I insured it, you owe me for whatever the damage specific amount is"

of course who knows what they owe you... the lens was damaged to begin with, so you have to incur some cost. I think you try to get the post office to pay for it, requesting the full amount at first, assuming you'll have to concede some $$ and hopefully you can recoup half the cost or something.

I can't see canon paying for anything



Jul 29, 2012 at 11:33 PM
skibum5
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


IMO there is basically no way that damage would happen during shipping, looks to me like someone inside of Canon dropped it, maybe that is even why the price went up, someone panicked after dropping it and just handed it off to the next guy figuring it was already broken so no harm no foul (only there was a foul)



Jul 29, 2012 at 11:33 PM
jay tieger
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


It seems to me that as you already accepted the repair, you admitted to Canon that the damage was done before you sent it...at least tacitly, right?

If so then it seems you are being unfair to expect anything from Canon...unless I'm missing something...

I'm sorry to say that the time to resove any conflict is when you discover it, (in this case when they told you that the filter was damaged....when you say it wasn't...), when damage was done AFTER you sent it.......



Jul 30, 2012 at 01:05 AM
LeTiger
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


Hey All!

Quick/Final update:

First off, thank EVERYONE for their kind advice, it really helped me sort out how I want to deal with this.

I called Canon on Wednesday, and upon reaching a manager, stated my previous reasonings, they informed me that even if all the boxes are signed for, they are still sent back if when at opening, damage is detected. I pointed out that if that was the case, then the damage would have had to occur while at their facility. I referenced the previous call to their customer care where I stated quite clearly that the lens, and filter were not impact damaged, which is on tape for the record. I was then put on with a supervisor who then escalated the issue to canon customer relations.

I re-explained everything as above, and was told that Canon stands 100% behind their technicians, and that the customer rep couldn't explain how or when the damage occurred (assuming it occurred at their factory), or why then, they didn't send the package back if it was damaged. The rep did offer a consolation of trying to find a used replacement filter for the one discarded at the factory, but I am still out about $450.

All I really wanted was to know where in the chain my lens was dropped... but I guess that isn't happening.

Notes based on FM feedback:
1. I had seen no literature canon sent to me indicating I needed to remove filters before shipping
2. Re-Sending in the body attached, probably not the best of ideas, I was in a bit of a rush, which is why I brought the whole thing down to professional packaging services.
3. Small claims court - ugh, no thanks, even more money/headache
4. Just letting it slip by due to small monetary amount in the long run - Money is money, it could be 1k next time, who knows, that was even after my 30% CPS applied, I have no desire to pay any more than I have to for damage I did not incur.


The Future
Based on my experience, I am no longer recommending Canon to others, the process was just too tiring to put anyone else through. (on the same note, I will not be using USPS for high-dollar shipments anymore, though I really do like to support them, as once they're gone, UPS and FedEx prices will inevitably creep upwards)

I am also discontinuing my use of Canon equipment past this point, as the process of sorting this out has no appeal to me over the long term, and one of their "pro" lenses, over normal usage scenarios lasted me under two years before developing quirks.

Thank you again everyone for your kind advice and time taken to reply, it really helped me get my head around this. All the best to you, and to people of the future searching this post, please do what you can to not fall into what happened above.



Aug 03, 2012 at 04:03 PM
VTXT
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


my question is, why did you ship the lens with the filter still attached??


Aug 03, 2012 at 04:53 PM
goosemang
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


LeTiger wrote:
Hey All!

Quick/Final update:

First off, thank EVERYONE for their kind advice, it really helped me sort out how I want to deal with this.

I called Canon on Wednesday, and upon reaching a manager, stated my previous reasonings, they informed me that even if all the boxes are signed for, they are still sent back if when at opening, damage is detected. I pointed out that if that was the case, then the damage would have had to occur while at their facility. I referenced the previous call to their customer care where I stated quite clearly that the lens, and filter
...Show more

sorry the situation stinks, but i think you should call them up again and go through it all over again and refuse to hang up the phone until you can come to some type of agreement you're happy with. sometimes you just have to go this route, no matter how tedious it is.

the alternative is to go to, what, nikon? front page of the nikon board has a thread where their service center is screwing someone. it's all the same, unfortunately.



Aug 03, 2012 at 05:09 PM
PV Hiker
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon/USPS broke my lens: What to do now? [UPDATED]


The lens you got back does it match the serial number you sent??

I sold a camera here and used USPS and packed it very well as I do, It had to be taken to Canon for repairs from USPS drop-kicking it or something. Now stick with Fedex for camera, lens, and harddrives.



Aug 03, 2012 at 05:18 PM
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