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Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

niXer
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p.1 #1 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

I know more Nikon 1 stuff is coming up for Photokina but do you think they'll answer Canon's APS-C sensor or continue with the current Nikon 1 sensor?

I don't see how they can just abandon CX but I could see them adding another line that would continue DX as mirror-less instead of entry level DSLRs (Unless a wild D400 appears).

Jul 24, 2012 at 11:57 PM

krickett
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p.1 #2 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

I would guess that making a new mount is a major endeavor, and it'll be hard to create yet another mirrorless mount.

In my mind, Nikon took an egg to the face on this one, and I'm not sure if and how they'll make up for it.

Jul 25, 2012 at 12:41 AM

brett maxwell
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p.1 #3 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

I think the 1" sensor was a big mistake, and I think they realize it. The tricky part is how to start something new when you've already made a pretty big commitment to a small sensor. I think they'll let the 1 fade away for a couple years, all the while developing a killer APS-C competitor.

Jul 25, 2012 at 01:59 AM

Kerry Pierce
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p.1 #4 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

I am lost, I guess. I don't see much point in the V1 or this new Canon. Slow lenses, slow performance, and the V1 sensor doesn't seem to have a very high ISO capability. Seems like pretty much like any average digicam. Why would the EOS M force Nikon to do anything? They've already invested big in the V1, so I can't see them throwing it in the can already. This is especially true since they came up with this with the Oly 4/3rds system already well established and other players in that market.

I expect them to give the V1 time to mature and see what kind of market penetration it gets, so unless the EOS M takes the market by storm, it's not likely to have much impact on Nikon. That's my guess anyway.

Kerry

Jul 25, 2012 at 02:51 AM

hans98ko
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p.1 #5 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

Like I said a year or so ago that all DSLR will go full frame sooner or later. Nikon, Canon and Sony will all release a full frame entry level DSLR later this year or early next year.
APS-C will go to MIL sytems like "M4/3", NX, NEX and so on.
CX will just die off because it is not a standard that can be useful to any other format users.
Professional DSLR will not go mirrorless for some time to come mainly due to the image processing delay of the EVF. No EVF will ever replace an OVF mainly due to the speed of an electron will never attain the speed of light, because if it does it will be converted to energy (E=MC² or Einstein = Mong Char char)

, the other thing is that the resolution of an EVF in low light situation can never be equal to an OVF due to noise.

Edited on Jul 25, 2012 at 06:31 AM · View previous versions

Jul 25, 2012 at 02:51 AM

philipj
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p.1 #6 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

brett maxwell wrote:
I think the 1" sensor was a big mistake, and I think they realize it. The tricky part is how to start something new when you've already made a pretty big commitment to a small sensor. I think they'll let the 1 fade away for a couple years, all the while developing a killer APS-C competitor.

I don't think the 1" sensor was a mistake at all. Point and shoot cameras are going away, there is just no growth in that sector of the digital camera market now, so Nikon had to come up with some alternative for the low end. Is it the camera you or I wanted? Likely not, but I suspect it's more important for Nikon to have an answer to the death of P&S cameras than a response to m43 and similar mirrorless competition.

I just hope Nikon's working on a mirrorless FX camera too, as the only other competition in that space right now is Leica, and that's just such a different ballgame.

Jul 25, 2012 at 02:55 AM

A.Y.
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p.1 #7 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

Nikon 1's greatest threat, IMO, will be the new Sony pocketable P&S RX-100 with an 1" sensor, F1.8 lens, 1080 60p HD, and better high-iso IQ: RX-100 ISO6400 JPEG vs. V1 ISO6400 JPEG

Overall mirrorless ISO6400 IQ: NEX vs. EOS-M (same T4i/650D sensor) vs. M43 (E-M5 uses Sony M43 sensor) vs. Nikon 1 (Nikon sensor)

Edited on Jul 25, 2012 at 01:52 PM · View previous versions

Jul 25, 2012 at 01:28 PM

nikt
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p.1 #8 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

No. Nothing will change. The CX mount was a couple of years late, but will fill the gap between point and shoot and SLR's nicely.

If they release the prime lenses and turn it into more of a serious segment, they will have an even more interesting camera on their hands.

Timing is everything with the current economic climate.

Jul 25, 2012 at 01:50 PM

Hrow
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p.1 #9 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

I can't see the value of the EOS M. For serious users it is pretty much a dud because of the lack of a VF and accessible controls. For the non-forum addicted market out there do the buyers really care if the sensor is an APS-C? No. Do they care that care that it costs a lot more than many other options that will perform as well or better FOR THEIR NEEDS? Yep.

I think both Nikon and Canon blew it for this round and have ceded the small camera market to Sony and Olympus for the foreseeable future.

Jul 25, 2012 at 01:59 PM

VinnieJ
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p.1 #10 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

Kerry Pierce wrote:
I am lost, I guess. I don't see much point in the V1 or this new Canon. Slow lenses, slow performance, and the V1 sensor doesn't seem to have a very high ISO capability. Seems like pretty much like any average digicam. Why would the EOS M force Nikon to do anything? They've already invested big in the V1, so I can't see them throwing it in the can already. This is especially true since they came up with this with the Oly 4/3rds system already well established and other players in that market.

I expect them to give the V1 time to mature and see what kind of market penetration it gets, so unless the EOS M takes the market by storm, it's not likely to have much impact on Nikon. That's my guess anyway.

Kerry

^^^ I agree with this.

There are advantages of the 1 system over the EOS M and the same goes for the other way around. What is so special about the EOS M that would make Nikon or any of the other brands worry about? The biggest thing Canon has going for them is brand recognition.

Someone can easily argue that the NEX will have better IQ or the Pen series will have faster auto focus. APS-C in a smaller body has already been done. Nothing new hear except the Canon name on a mirrorless ILC.

Jul 25, 2012 at 02:09 PM

LMT1972
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p.1 #11 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

Well there were quite a few mirrorless APS-C cameras on the market before the V1/J1 were released but Nikon still went with a small sensor. I doubt the Canon announcement will have any effect on what Nikon does. Both Canon & Nikon are playing catchup in this segment anyway. They are not innovators or market leaders, so no pressure on either company to one up the other since both are lagging far behind the opposition.

When third party mirrorless offerings start taking a significant slice of the entry level DSLR sector, we may see something more compelling from Nikon, however I may also die of old age before that happens

Cheers
Leigh

Edited on Jul 26, 2012 at 06:19 AM · View previous versions

Jul 25, 2012 at 02:13 PM

brett maxwell
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p.1 #12 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

Simple PnS cameras are being replaced by cell phones.

Specialty PnS cameras (particularly waterproof) will always have a place.

Advanced PnS cameras will all go to 1" or greater sensors and still be easily pocketable (RX-100 is setting the bar)

MILC cameras will need 4/3 as a minimum to survive and the APS-C models will be the top tier.

DSLR cameras will move more and more to full frame, but there will always be an APS-C entry level tier or two.

Just my predictions, but it all makes logical sense when you consider that the most camera purchasers are having to make decisions primarily choosing between image quality, bulk, and cost. Larger sensors and lenses have inherent advantages that will keep them leading the pack in image quality, but there will always be compromise in how much bulk people want to carry and how much they are willing to spend.

Jul 25, 2012 at 02:20 PM

Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #13 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

Small sensors will get increasingly better. Large sensors need larger lenses. Long term, I think Nikon has played the best card. If I hadn't been an m4/3 user already, I would have chosen the V1.

Jul 25, 2012 at 03:43 PM

Sami Ruusunen
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p.1 #14 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

I was dissapointed about the sensor size of V1, but to be honest most people don't understand/care about the sensor size of a camera. It's also much easier and cost efficient to design a lens for a smaller sensor. Size, price and brand matter much more for average consumer than the size of the sensor.

Jul 25, 2012 at 04:07 PM

bbvaj
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p.1 #15 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

1" sensor is not a mistake at all... but PRICING and CATEGORIZATION of Nikon 1 system is the MISTAKE... J1 should go for $299 and V1 for $349-$399 with $99 F-mount adapter... What the heck i just got a used NEX-C3 for $200.. (It has an APS-C sensor comparable to D7000 or 1.5x crop of D800).. The only mistake Nikon did is by pricing it GROSSLY WRONG.

If priced appropriately, Every Nikon mid to pro level DSLR owner will carry a backup in J1 or V1 for a light weight situation or when they need more reach... Wildlife and birders will love it if the F-mount adapter also works in AF-C mode (my understanding is it doesn't right now and is a firmware thing)

Jul 25, 2012 at 05:36 PM

EOS20
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p.1 #16 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

I was looking at the prices on ebay (HK sellers) and the J1 10-30 kit currently sells for $20 less then a Canon S100!

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Nikon-J1-Digital-Camera-10-30mm-Kit-White-Gifts-1-Yr-Warranty-Nikon1-/180865462654?pt=AU_Digital_Cameras&hash=item2a1c6bf17e

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Canon-PowerShot-S100-12-1-MP-Digital-Camera-USJ-/290720114400?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item43b044e6e0#ht_4348wt_1037

Jul 25, 2012 at 06:00 PM

altern3
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p.1 #17 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

Nikon knew best in the case of V1 and one has to give them credit for that. They knew exactly the response this camera will get and yet they went ahead with it.

But since Nikon has always been a camera maker for photographers first, they knew exactly what market this camera will appeal to and there they got it right.

When V1 was released I dismissed it, to me it was a complete failure. Then I had a Eureka moment when I realized that the Nikon V1 is the perfect discreet point-&-shoot camera, literally! In a sense the Nikon V1 is the camera that you point and click and the camera takes of care of everything and leaves you to concentrate on pictures only. This makes Nikon V1 a true successor to something like Ricoh Gr1v (named similarly as well) especially with its inbuilt EVF. This is the camera that Diado Moriyama would love to use or any photographer who's out there to take pictures and not play videogame with camera buttons.

Nikon V1 is back to the basics of photography, to the old style f8 and be there sort of deal where the camera is all preset and you simply take photos.

Jul 25, 2012 at 06:07 PM

soupcxan
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p.1 #18 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

The Sony RX100 is the nail in the coffin for Nikon's 1-series.

Jul 25, 2012 at 06:34 PM

altern3
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p.1 #19 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

I think, I'm about tired of getting shilled by Sony outsourced marketing affiliates every time I mention Nikon V1.

No serious photographer will compare the two.

Its easy to shill but its hard to fake being a photographer.

soupcxan wrote:
The Sony RX100 is the nail in the coffin for Nikon's 1-series.

Jul 25, 2012 at 06:45 PM

M Lucca
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p.1 #20 · Will the Canon EOS M force Nikon's hand?

For mirror-less, Olympus OM-D is royalty. The other ones are just courtesans with the EOS M the latest of the jesters.

Jul 25, 2012 at 08:25 PM

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