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Archive 2012 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system
  
 
FlyPenFly
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


18mm wide in 3:2 ratio would make it much smaller than APS-C.

Perhaps it is the G1x sensor, that would make a lot of sense, that one is 18.7mm wide but I don't believe that is the right ratio.

Edited on Jul 20, 2012 at 03:06 PM · View previous versions



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:06 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


okay so it's a 3:2 15mm wide sensor?


Jul 20, 2012 at 03:08 PM
joychris
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


FlyPenFly wrote:
18mm wide in 3:2 ratio would make it much smaller than APS-C.

Perhaps it is the G1x sensor, that would make a lot of sense, that one is 18.7mm wide but I don't believe that is the right ratio.


I've always e-speculated that Canon's mirrorless would use the G1X sensor, if the endless stream of DSLR's with the 18mp APS-c sensor is any indication, Canon likes to spread its sensor investment over multiple cameras.



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:16 PM
Visuals
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


All I can say is thank you Olympus for the OM-D!


Jul 20, 2012 at 03:16 PM
mirkoc
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


This topic really raises dust. We shouldn't wine a lot if it won't have every possible characteristic, it is only the first generation. For now it obviously hasn't got an eye viewfinder and tilt/swivel screen. And it is definitely not an eye catcher. This is only a small wine.


Jul 20, 2012 at 03:23 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


I'm still betting it's a APS-C sensor. Even with a low-res file and my roguh measure it's too close to the officail measure of APS-C, and let's not forguet the 3:2 ratio.

Anyway from what I've read the official announcement should be this Monday.



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:27 PM
JimBuchanan
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


Remember, Canon's version of the APS-C sensor is 1/1.6 full frame, versus 1/1.5 for everyone else, re, 1.6x crop versus the larger 1.5x crop sensor.


Jul 20, 2012 at 03:34 PM
phigment
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


Here's a quick illustration of what I did (sorry for the bad choice of annotation colours).
http://phigmenttech.ca/ef-m.jpg



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:35 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


phigment: That would imply a new sized sensor between APS-C (22.3 wide) and the G1X (18.7 wide).

If I'm not mistaken a sensor with that size would have a 1.45 crop factor meaning the lens would be a 32mm equivalent (a bit odd focal lenght).



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:42 PM
phigment
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


I'm just doing the math.. not speculating anything about new sensor tech.
Also note.. the 20.2 mm is to the housing edge. That means the sensor underneath is smaller yet.



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:44 PM
 

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Sr.Cordeiro
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


Sr.Cordeiro wrote:
phigment: That would imply a new sized sensor between APS-C (22.3 wide) and the G1X (18.7 wide).

If I'm not mistaken a sensor with that size would have a 1.45 crop factor meaning the lens would be a 32mm equivalent (a bit odd focal lenght).


Ignore this message, I'm clearly essencially a visual guy and not very apt for math



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:46 PM
douglasf13
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


If this sensor is around 20mm wide and a 3:2 ratio, the lens would be about a 40mm equivalent lens.

If this sensor is around 18mm wide, like the G1X, then we're looking at about a 45mm equiv.

If this sensor is actually Canon's 1.6x crop sensor, and the lens is a 35mm equiv., then Sony should take notice of this lens design, because the Zeiss 24 is huge in comparison, despite being a little faster.



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:50 PM
mawz
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


douglasf13 wrote:
If this sensor is about 20mm wide and a 3:2 ratio, the lens would be about a 40mm equivalent lens, which would make sense, since it looks similar in proportion to the m4/3 20mm pancake. If this sensor is actually Canon's 1.6x crop sensor, then Sony should take notice of this lens design, because the Zeiss 24 is huge in comparison, despite being a little faster.


Remember we don't know how the lens performs or what the register of the camera is. Canon could have gone with a much longer register (as Samsung did) to make compact lens design easier, or included compensating microlenses on the sensor or accepted the quality tradeoffs that Sony did with the similar-sized 16/2.8. And the Zeiss 24 is unusual in that it is extremely telecentric, which is why it is so large and also one reason why it performs so well on the NEX-7.

Frankly I suspect the large size of the Zeiss 24 is in part a reaction to the response the 16/2.8 got, the originally shown prototypes were much smaller and it grew to the current size late in the game. The 16 gets widely panned for its poor edge performance, ignoring the simple fact that it is in fact a very good performer across most of the frame and that for the cost, it's an excellent performer. Even the Sigma 19/2.8, which is widely considered a remarkable performer, is only a little better at the edges than the Sony 16, and the Sigma is both larger and less wide, making the design simpler to execute.



Jul 20, 2012 at 03:59 PM
morpheus2891
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


Hoping the normal fast primer for NEX will be a 35/1.4 - preferably a zeiss I can dream right? Alright, cards on the table what I'd really love is the handling/portability of a NEX (the 7 is fine) and the image qualities afforded to me by the 5D + 35/1.4 distagon. Oh... and I don't want to pay Leica M9 prices (or deal with the rangefinder)... oh well, maybe one day


mawz wrote:
That won't happen anyways, Sony already does a 30/3.5 Macro for E system, they won't bring out a second one so close. I'm expecting a 35/1.8 based on the A mount optics and something longer in a ZA (I'd kill for a ZA E 50/1.4 Sonnar)




Jul 20, 2012 at 04:03 PM
douglasf13
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


mawz wrote:
Remember we don't know how the lens performs or what the register of the camera is. Canon could have gone with a much longer register (as Samsung did) to make compact lens design easier, or included compensating microlenses on the sensor or accepted the quality tradeoffs that Sony did with the similar-sized 16/2.8. And the Zeiss 24 is unusual in that it is extremely telecentric, which is why it is so large and also one reason why it performs so well on the NEX-7.

Frankly I suspect the large size of the Zeiss 24 is in part a reaction to the
...Show more


I think Sony's problem could be in the inconsistent design of the sensor assembly and how it handles oblique light rays, so they have to design the lenses to work with the lowest common denominator. Vivek on another forum took apart the NEX-7 sensor and found an extra piece of coated glass between the dust shaker and sensor that the 5N doesn't apparently have. It's all pretty odd, and I wish that Sony had a clearer handle on it. I sold the ZA 24 after a while, partly because I wasn't a fan of the size.

Judging by the pics, the registration looks maybe slightly longer than NEX, although not nearly as long as NX, but we'll see. I'm still not convinced that the sensor is a full 1.6x crop aps-c.


Edited on Jul 20, 2012 at 04:14 PM · View previous versions



Jul 20, 2012 at 04:12 PM
douglasf13
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


morpheus2891 wrote:
Hoping the normal fast primer for NEX will be a 35/1.4 - preferably a zeiss I can dream right? Alright, cards on the table what I'd really love is the handling/portability of a NEX (the 7 is fine) and the image qualities afforded to me by the 5D + 35/1.4 distagon. Oh... and I don't want to pay Leica M9 prices (or deal with the rangefinder)... oh well, maybe one day



I'm actually hoping for a 35/2, so it is a little smaller.



Jul 20, 2012 at 04:13 PM
aleksanderpolo
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


From the lack of control looks like they are more concerned about not cannibalizing their APSC line than to compete against other mirrorless.


Jul 20, 2012 at 04:15 PM
goosemang
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


anybody wanna throw me a few bones for an M9?


Jul 20, 2012 at 04:27 PM
mirkoc
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


aleksanderpolo wrote:
From the lack of control looks like they are more concerned about not cannibalizing their APSC line than to compete against other mirrorless.


I guess it has a touchscreen so I wouldn't say so.



Jul 20, 2012 at 04:37 PM
buggz2k
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · EOS-M - Canon mirroless system


Sad, everyone wants to build the same low end ridiculous stuff.
I see no differentiation.
I would still say Sony is the leader, everyone else being lemmings...



Jul 20, 2012 at 04:42 PM
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