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Archive 2012 · 5Dc & mirror issue
  
 
adrianb
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p.1 #1 · 5Dc & mirror issue


Hi
I purchased a used 5dc from somebody a while ago and when I tried to shoot some photos with it, everything was soft ( 24L II on the 5dc). That lens is sharp even at 1.4 or 2.0....not to mention its sharpness at 2.8 or 4.0

But even at f4 i was getting oof/soft results...

Having owned a 5dc 2 years ago, i knew about issues with calibration.

So I send the body to our Canon dealer her for a body calibration.

Here is where it starts to get interesting.
They called me and said that the mirror had been tampered with, meaning: they said that the mirror fell off sometime in the past, and somebody attempted to mount it back, but has done so up side down.
They said the mirror was mounted upside down and it's reaching too far at the lower end.

They said that they can't do any calibration and that they need to change the 'mirror box'.

Which of course is chargeable. A lot.
I asked them if they can't just take off the mirror and put it back accordingly, but they said they don't know what type of adhesive the guy who did this used, because they use a 'special' adhesive bla bla bla...

On top,they said that the shutter gets sometimes err99 or something and it should be changed soon.

They offered to make a discount for the shutter & mirror box.


I smell a rip off here.

I will post some pictures for those of you who are more 'tech' about it, can you tell me,judging by these pictures if indeed the mirror is assembled incorrectly? (upside down etc), or by these pictures, if the mirror had any sort of fix ?

I'm NOT willing to pay 425 euro for repairs for a body which I got for 500 eur.....












Jul 19, 2012 at 01:54 PM
hans98ko
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p.1 #2 · 5Dc & mirror issue


My 5D mirror also came off a couple of years back and before I sent it in for servicing, I took a couple of pictures of the mirror and the mounting frame.
Yes, I can confirmed that your mirror was mounted upside down by the 2 circular glueing marks.
Instead of 2 narrow glue marks at the bottom, it should be 2 wider glue marks, The 2 narrow glue marks should be on top and not below.
As for the center translucent opening to the secondary mirror below the main mirror for exposure control, it is not symmetrical between the top and the bottom. The opening should be sitting below center.
For my case Canon Singapore did a very good job by replacing the mirror plus adding a couple of mounting brackets on the side, and also replace my focusing screen which was scratched.

Edited on Jul 19, 2012 at 04:15 PM · View previous versions



Jul 19, 2012 at 04:01 PM
Monito
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p.1 #3 · 5Dc & mirror issue


The only ripoff is the stupid person who sold you the camera without full disclosure. They were stupid to attempt a fix that Canon does for free and double stupid by botching it spectacularly.



Jul 19, 2012 at 04:03 PM
adrianb
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p.1 #4 · 5Dc & mirror issue


Monito wrote:
The only ripoff is the stupid person who sold you the camera without full disclosure. They were stupid to attempt a fix that Canon does for free and double stupid by botching it spectacularly.


I agree

But can't this dealer/service just take out the mirror and put it back in correctly? Do they REALLY need to change the damn MIRROR BOX ?



Jul 19, 2012 at 04:05 PM
Monito
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p.1 #5 · 5Dc & mirror issue


adrianb wrote:
Do they REALLY need to change the damn MIRROR BOX ?


Yes.

In a recent thread in the last few days, it was explained that there is no point in sending a half-fixed camera back to the user. Either fix it properly, fix it well, and fix it completely or not at all.



Jul 19, 2012 at 04:14 PM
hans98ko
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p.1 #6 · 5Dc & mirror issue


adrianb wrote:
I agree

But can't this dealer/service just take out the mirror and put it back in correctly? Do they REALLY need to change the damn MIRROR BOX ?


If you look at the position of the glue marks, it is almost impossible to remove the mirror without breaking it. Worst still if the previous owner uses super strong glue on it, which I think he did by the look of the vapor residue on your mirror.



Jul 19, 2012 at 04:23 PM
adrianb
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p.1 #7 · 5Dc & mirror issue


it just so happens that I still have the old mirror which fell of from my 1st 5dc, 2 years ago.... it must be FATE))

Should I attempt a fix?



Jul 19, 2012 at 04:34 PM
Monito
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p.1 #8 · 5Dc & mirror issue


adrianb wrote:
it just so happens that I still have the old mirror which fell of from my 1st 5dc, 2 years ago.... it must be FATE)) Should I attempt a fix?


Only you know what tools, materials, and skill you can bring to bear on the problem. It seems you may have little to lose by trying.

However, shipping to and from you in Burkina Faso could mean being without the camera for a long time, though if it is useless without the fix then again there is not much to lose.



Jul 19, 2012 at 04:38 PM
adrianb
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p.1 #9 · 5Dc & mirror issue


I don't have the tools/skill to do it...but I can ask somebody who can...

as you put it out,there isn't much to lose....

I also have a 1d2 as a main body....



Jul 19, 2012 at 04:45 PM
padmasana
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p.1 #10 · 5Dc & mirror issue


Monito -- close your eyes. You don't want to read this ...
Anyway, I was using my old 5D at a recent, casual, family memorial at a park on a very hot day and the mirror fell off.
I pieced it back in with a bit of chewing gum. Worked fine for about 10 shots at a time, then needed repositioning.
Of course, I've cleaned it up since then and had it repaired by Canon.



Jul 19, 2012 at 07:18 PM
 

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Imagemaster
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p.1 #11 · 5Dc & mirror issue


Sounds like your fault for buying from someone not willing to give you your money back. I don't see any fault with Canon's response.


Jul 19, 2012 at 08:30 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #12 · 5Dc & mirror issue


Finding a solvent to loosen an unknown type of glue is gonna be tough. And, if it goes south, you'll need a new mirror box anyway.


Jul 19, 2012 at 08:44 PM
Monito
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p.1 #13 · 5Dc & mirror issue


padmasana wrote:
Monito -- close your eyes. You don't want to read this ... Anyway, I was using my old 5D at a recent, casual, family memorial at a park on a very hot day and the mirror fell off. I pieced it back in with a bit of chewing gum. Worked fine for about 10 shots at a time, then needed repositioning. Of course, I've cleaned it up since then and had it repaired by Canon.


You forgot the baling wire. You have to use baling wire too.



Jul 20, 2012 at 01:22 AM
Wobble
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p.1 #14 · 5Dc & mirror issue


Since you are "NOT willing to pay 425 euro for repairs for a body which I got for 500 eur", and you have a spare mirror, go for the fix yourself. If you screw it up, nothing lost. Then send it to Canon for the mirror box fix and enjoy your new camera.


Jul 20, 2012 at 01:59 AM
adrianb
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p.1 #15 · 5Dc & mirror issue


Monito wrote:
Yes.

In a recent thread in the last few days, it was explained that there is no point in sending a half-fixed camera back to the user. Either fix it properly, fix it well, and fix it completely or not at all.



Removing this mirror and putting it back the way it's supposed to SHOULD be attempted by Canon,instead of ripping me off.

It would be fair for them to say "we'll attempt to remove the current mirror (even if it breaks) and put it back (or if it breaks, put your spare mirror back), but if anything should go wrong,as far as the MIRROR BOX IS CONCERNED, we should not be held responsible".

That is what I would like. At least I stand a fighting chance, instead of handing them over the value of the body for a damn mirror box...

I mean is it really rocket science to remove that mirror from there? we're in 2013, not 1900....

Surely a skilled man whith the right tools should be able to pull this off...

Can you tell me what needs to come off the camera for 'safe work" with the mirror? should I dis-assemble the whole body? (to avoid damaging the sensor & stuff) ?



Jan 10, 2013 at 04:29 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #16 · 5Dc & mirror issue


I think you perhaps did get ripped off by the seller. That is an unfortunate risk when you buy used gear. Usually it works out just fine, but sometimes it doesn't, and then you have little recourse.

I guess the tough questions now include:

  1. whether or not you have any recourse regarding the person who sold it to you - or whether you just have to live with the situation.
  2. the question of whether repair or replacement makes the most sense.

If Canon is offering you a discount on the mirror mechanism replacement, that is probably a good thing and something to consider. You would end up with a camera in much better shape than what you purchased. While Canon probably had some responsibility for the cost of replacing the original mirror, they don't have any responsibility for a previous owner who failed to send it in so that they could fix it and who instead did a DIY "repair" that messed up the camera.

I know it feels awful to find yourself in this situation, but I can understand Canon's perspective, too. Since the "repair" was bungled in obvious ways, they can probably assume that the person doing that repair also screwed up in other ways, likely using adhesives that were inappropriate and which they cannot remove without further damaging things. I really don't think Canon is ripping you off here.

One possibility might be to find a non-Canon repair shop that is willing to take this on. If I were operating that shop, I would be hesitant, given the potential for damaging the camera further - but perhaps if you explicitly agree to hold the third-party shop harmless for that sort of thing (e.g. - you are willing to take the risk yourself, as you did by buying used) they might give it a try.

Good luck sorting this out!

Dan

Edited on Jan 10, 2013 at 10:31 PM · View previous versions



Jan 10, 2013 at 05:01 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #17 · 5Dc & mirror issue


I guess this means the mirror issue was unresolved these 6 months hence. You must realize that modern factory techs are only trained and authorized to remove and replace stocked parts. The "old skool" practice of customized component level repair is normally not done anymore, save for a few old timers in private practice repair shops. As I wrote 6 months ago, finding and testing a solvent for an unknown glue will be tricky and probably take hours more time than simply pulling the works and replacing. One of the joys of owning an older car, motorcycle or camera is you need to do the repairs yourself (to be cost effective).


Jan 10, 2013 at 05:06 PM
anthonygh
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p.1 #18 · 5Dc & mirror issue


Factor in the official labour cost per.hr X time for attempting a repair with no guarantee of success vs the cost of a standard replacement job plus new mirror box.....I suspect there won't be that much in the final bill.

But the 'product' you receive will be a lot different.....I know which one I would prefer even if it cost a bit more. Think resale value as well...new mirror box plus service done by Canon....vs...?



Jan 10, 2013 at 05:56 PM
adrianb
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p.1 #19 · 5Dc & mirror issue


anthonygh wrote:
Factor in the official labour cost per.hr X time for attempting a repair with no guarantee of success vs the cost of a standard replacement job plus new mirror box.....I suspect there won't be that much in the final bill.

But the 'product' you receive will be a lot different.....I know which one I would prefer even if it cost a bit more. Think resale value as well...new mirror box plus service done by Canon....vs...?


I know anthony but I really can't pay for repair 95% of what I paid for the body/ what the body is worth now.

There is something like a paradox in my mind that doesn't allow me to SPEND that money on the repair. I would rather add the 5% and buy a functional BODY and keep this one as it is or sell it for something and recover some money.

I know that repairing it I will have a body with new shutter & new mirror box but that doesn't 'excite' me....

I don't wanna whine like a twat but I'm just trying to see what my options are...



Jan 10, 2013 at 07:10 PM
Monito
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p.1 #20 · 5Dc & mirror issue


adrianb wrote:
Removing this mirror and putting it back the way it's supposed to SHOULD be attempted by Canon,instead of ripping me off.


They haven't ripped you off. You didn't agree to the repair. You had decided to get it done locally in Burkina Faso because you knew someone.

adrianb wrote:
It would be fair for them to say "we'll attempt to remove the current mirror (even if it breaks) and put it back (or if it breaks, put your spare mirror back), but if anything should go wrong,as far as the MIRROR BOX IS CONCERNED, we should not be held responsible".


Companies that tried generosity like that have gotten sued in the past so they don't any more.

adrianb wrote:
That is what I would like. At least I stand a fighting chance, instead of handing them over the value of the body for a damn mirror box...

I mean is it really rocket science to remove that mirror from there? we're in 2013, not 1900....


No, it is not rocket science, but nor is it an everyday kitchen table repair, ... otherwise you would have ordered the replacement mirror box and done it yourself already.

adrianb wrote:
Surely a skilled man whith the right tools should be able to pull this off...


Since you have to ask that question, I can be sure that you are not sufficiently skilled with the right tools.

adrianb wrote:
Can you tell me what needs to come off the camera for 'safe work" with the mirror? should I dis-assemble the whole body? (to avoid damaging the sensor & stuff) ?


Since you need to ask, take it to the Burkina man you know who can do it.


Edited on Jan 10, 2013 at 10:44 PM · View previous versions



Jan 10, 2013 at 07:15 PM
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