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Archive 2012 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches
  
 
ChadAndreo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


After watching Sal Cincotta on CreativeLive this week, I can see the value of not giving a wedding client the Hi-Res files unless they purchase a top package or spent X amount of dollars. He does this by charging an obscene amount for ala cart items so that client will see the package as a better value.
He actually advocates never giving up the Hi-Res files for any portrait session period and he seems to do very well for himself using this philosophy.

In contrast, Ryan Brenizer offers one package. A "Everything you need for coverage and peace-of-mind for $5,500 (plus applicable sales tax)." which comes with all day coverage and the hi-res files. Clients then have the option to purchase products from him afterwards or do so on there own. Although different from Sals philosophy, it would appear he has also done very well for himself.

If the opinion of my fellow FMers, what are the pros and cons of these two pricing strategies?

Edited on Jul 10, 2012 at 07:24 AM · View previous versions



Jul 10, 2012 at 06:58 AM
tobicus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


Different strokes for different folks. Personally, we always provide the high-res files because it's what we believe in.


Jul 10, 2012 at 07:06 AM
TTLKurtis
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


I prefer the Sal guy's approach. I never give files from portrait sessions, though I do include them for weddings, but it's considerably better value to book packages vs a la carte.


Jul 10, 2012 at 07:29 AM
Kittyk
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


include DVD for obscene amount but with print coupon for about the same value, then they have to use you for deliverables and see it as better value




Jul 10, 2012 at 08:15 AM
J.walker
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


I never provide high res files. My clients have no idea where to order good prints, how to send files in to get printed. They do not know what a good price is or how to do a album, etc.

I DO provide a disc with edited images in low res that they can post on fb or something(they are watermarked).

Clients are far happier, from what I see, when we offer them a real product. shoot and burn is not the best representation of your work. The final printed image is your best representation imo. So many things can arise from printing and I just dont feel it does the client service to have them print themself. They may "think" they are getting a better deal but really they are not.

A local wedding guy I know offers a package where he gives the client discs with the images, or lately its been a jump drive. He then ,once delivered, deletes the files from his hd's saying that they bought it, its theirs. This is ludicrous to me as well.

My personal dealings, albeit not as much as I would like yet, are to deliver prints.. I then back everything up twice. years down the road should they want more prints, I am happy to do so. I have never met a couple who truly wants just digital negatives of a wedding. all of them want albums, fusion albums, fine art pieces , prints, etc. I just think you are shooting yourself in the foot and losing half your sales if you give away your images.

I would be curious to see what people like Cantrell think about this topic. maybe im just crazy and need to start shooting and burning. I am really surprised to hear statements like in another thread that state, giving the images on disc is the norm now.



Jul 10, 2012 at 11:32 AM
J.walker
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


tobicus wrote:
Different strokes for different folks. Personally, we always provide the high-res files because it's what we believe in.

could you elaborate on this? Why do you "believe" in giving them the files. I am trying to understand this better. I was taught that we should shoot the same way we did film. shoot,develop/print,deliver. you can elaborate via pm if its easier, im just trying to see this the way a few local guys do. They deliver high res files, but thats all they deliver. their clients dont return and I thought it was because they delivered a "unfinished" product.

I can see this is going to be a 50/50 topic and id like to understand the reasoning behind giving high-res digital negatives(or high res jpeg).



Jul 10, 2012 at 11:40 AM
Kittyk
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


i will not try to convince you about that you are not right or even drag you into 21st century j.walker but there is more into digital files then ordering nice prints right away.

here is reasoning customers of one wedding fair why to have DVD. This was done for wedding mode shop as part of questionnaire to win a dress, so take it with a grain of salt, but anyway.

1) printing prices are unrealistic, want to print it cheaper elsewhere.

Problem: we have to admit that many togs don't put value to the prints just big margin and print it online somewhere anyway. customers then do not see the added value against regular color managed lab because it "looks same".
Solution: Add value, customers will come even with DVD.

2) they don't know what to order now, want to see pics first then decide
Solution: give them credit for prints

3) they lost shots of their dog which were archived by photographer xxx some xx years ago, or have them where they lived xxx miles away or even different country. Would be bad to have it happen to wedding photos.
Solution: There is no other solution then DVD, if they do not trust you being around 20 years from now when they move to new flat and will want bigger print for their wall. You cannot blame them, photo business is nowadays so dramatic and often photographers have bad name as whole brand, exactly because they are not customer oriented. Giving DVD is very customer friendly.

4) want to have high res for their TV, making cards and presents, slideshow, digital archive, family digital chronicle,...
Solution: DVD

In our market only budget brides don't want DVD. Regardless how they like us, they value our work more and want to have it forever for them in never degrading quality.
Exactly for the reason that it means for them a lot: not just let it rot in an album, but play with them and enjoy them all ways possible even many years after.

Edited on Jul 10, 2012 at 01:15 PM · View previous versions



Jul 10, 2012 at 01:13 PM
tobicus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


J.walker wrote:
could you elaborate on this? Why do you "believe" in giving them the files. I am trying to understand this better. I was taught that we should shoot the same way we did film. shoot,develop/print,deliver. you can elaborate via pm if its easier, im just trying to see this the way a few local guys do. They deliver high res files, but thats all they deliver. their clients dont return and I thought it was because they delivered a "unfinished" product.

I can see this is going to be a 50/50 topic and id like to understand the reasoning behind giving
...Show more

No problem. We deliver high-res jpegs as well as low-res ones so clients can handle printing on their own and do whatever they want with the images. We used to offer prints but don't anymore, and we used to bundle albums with certain packages but don't anymore, although we still make albums if they're requested separately and paid for. Basically, it's simpler this way for us.



Jul 10, 2012 at 01:15 PM
brett maxwell
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


J.walker wrote:
I was taught that we should shoot the same way we did film.


Who taught you that? And are they still running a profitable business with that model? How are the people doing who have taken this person's advice starting up a new business?

My wedding clients all get high res files for three primary reasons. 1) It's what I would want and I choose to run my business accordingly, 2) It's what the 25-30 year old, generally tech-savvy, clients I attract want and are willing to pay for, and 3) I find it easier and makes my income more predictable to collect 90-100% of my final income before the wedding and focusing on marketing towards the next clients rather than focusing on getting additional sales from past clients.



Jul 10, 2012 at 01:41 PM
J.walker
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


brett maxwell wrote:
Who taught you that? And are they still running a profitable business with that model? How are the people doing who have taken this person's advice starting up a new business?

My wedding clients all get high res files for three primary reasons. 1) It's what I would want and I choose to run my business accordingly, 2) It's what the 25-30 year old, generally tech-savvy, clients I attract want and are willing to pay for, and 3) I find it easier and makes my income more predictable to collect 90-100% of my final income before the wedding and focusing
...Show more
All of what you said basically states you adjusted your price to offer that service. that makes sense. Im not speaking on people who price accordingly. Im talking about the people who shoot, give up raw files and are done. who dont offer products like albums.

This is all very interesting as it has never been a issue( me not offering the digital negatives). The people I learned from do extremely well. Im not saying the product I offer is the only way to do it. I am trying to understand peoples willingness to for example..to shoot a wedding at lets say 2500 and freely give out all the negatives on a disc. I CAN understand pricing it and including high res jpegs, but raw files?no.
The people I shoot have never said I have to have your digital negatives on a disc. Maybe thats where we are differing, im speaking raw files, not a high res jpeg. I also have never had a problem selling a client a print.Maybe its just me but I have done things along the same lines as Sal. I make no where near what he has but his model and mine are not that far off. I cant imagine mine to be terrible if I have not had any issues with not giving someone a raw file.
People I talk to are 50/50 split on this. A lot of people say they will offer images on disc but only after purchasing albums and etc. some people raise the price of the package and then give pictures on a disc.


as for the comment about 21st century, that was funny thanks.



Jul 10, 2012 at 02:45 PM
 

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hardlyboring
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


We give the edited hi rez jpegs with all packages...
We just price ourselves high enough that we do not have to worry about prints and albums etc. unless someone really wants them.

What does your business model call for? Just because Sal does it one way and Ryan does it another does not mean either way is right or wrong.



Jul 10, 2012 at 03:13 PM
TRReichman
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


There are 2 different issues at stake here. The first is overall earnings, the second is that of deliverable product.

With overall earnings some photographers have a gripe against high-res files because they believe that they restrict earnings - that's simply limited thinking. You can get paid for what you do, how long you do it, or what you sell. If your value is in what you do you're always going to be able to get paid what you need. Everything else is fine but tenuous and more impacted by what everyone else is doing.

I'm not a huge fan of a la carte vs package pricing because it is basically building value through forcing the client to do math. Not very compelling, though it has certainly worked for some. I just think there are better ways of doing it.

The second issue of deliverables really has more to do with what you believe they need to own. Some people want clients to own product because of what they produce ought to mean to their lives. That sounds like a good strategy. Some people want clients to own product because that's how they make money, which is a less valuable approach.

The best thing to do if you are interested in making what you want and pleasing clients is to decide where the value is and get paid for that. Everything else ought to be gravy.

- trr




Jul 10, 2012 at 04:56 PM
amonline
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


Kittyk wrote:
include DVD for obscene amount but with print coupon for about the same value, then they have to use you for deliverables and see it as better value


I kind of like that idea.



Jul 10, 2012 at 05:29 PM
Sergio Mottola
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


with my clientele, i don't think i'd have ever booked a wedding if i didnt include a disc in my base package.


Jul 10, 2012 at 05:30 PM
TomHarmon
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


TRReichman wrote:
There are 2 different issues at stake here. The first is overall earnings, the second is that of deliverable product.

With overall earnings some photographers have a gripe against high-res files because they believe that they restrict earnings - that's simply limited thinking. You can get paid for what you do, how long you do it, or what you sell. If your value is in what you do you're always going to be able to get paid what you need. Everything else is fine but tenuous and more impacted by what everyone else is doing.

I'm not a huge fan
...Show more

I've been finding lately that EVERYONE wants the DVD with their package and are willing to give up physical prints and canvasses to save money. I would love people to have a nice canvass from their wedding day hanging on their wall, but a lot of my couples have stated that they would feel weird with such a large print of themselves on their wall, so I don't push the issue.
And to echo what Brett was saying, I price myself accordingly to offer the DVD with each package and I hardly ever do follow-up sales with the couple and focus on marketing to future clients. I find that my couples haven't been overly interested in physical products other than an album or parent book.



Jul 10, 2012 at 05:41 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


J.walker wrote:
I am really surprised to hear statements like in another thread that state, giving the images on disc is the norm now.


Isn't it?



Jul 10, 2012 at 05:49 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


J.walker wrote:
The people I shoot have never said I have to have your digital negatives on a disc. Maybe thats where we are differing, im speaking raw files, not a high res jpeg.


I think most of us here are talking about high-res jpegs, not raws. Most people aren't giving out raws. Clients are not wanting raws. I've NEVER been asked for raws. They DO want the jpegs.



Jul 10, 2012 at 05:58 PM
bthatton
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


As a wedding photojournalist, it does not make sense to withhold images from my clients. I charge up front.


Jul 10, 2012 at 06:06 PM
J.walker
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Pricing - Two Different Approaches


D. Diggler wrote:
I think most of us here are talking about high-res jpegs, not raws. Most people aren't giving out raws. Clients are not wanting raws. I've NEVER been asked for raws. They DO want the jpegs.

I dont think I had enough coffee this morning and misunderstood when high res was mentioned. I guess thats what i get for staying up so late.




Jul 10, 2012 at 06:32 PM





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