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Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

brownchl
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p.1 #1 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

I had the longest wedding of my career yesterday... it my first Muslim wedding and we were onsite for 14 hours. I'm exhausted and bitter. Why? Because the couple took the model release out of my contract and wish their images to remain completely private. I understand and respect that it was for religious reasons, but they were a gorgeous couple and it was a beautiful venue. I wasn't upset about it before, but I'm sure as hell bitter about it now. I've run into this four times since I've started doing weddings and I've never charged a fee, but I'm considering charging one now.

Am I out of line in thinking that I can charge an additional fee if I lose the right to use images for promotion?

Jun 30, 2012 at 04:09 PM

sherijohnson
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p.1 #2 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

you can definitely charge a premium for loss of use of the images or only shoot for people who don't change your contract

Jun 30, 2012 at 04:15 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.1 #3 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

You can absolutely charge for that if you want to. They are requesting changing standard personal usage licensing terms to basically full copyright ownership if you can't use them yourself. That is worth $$$, no doubt. How much, well that depends.

Now, is it possible they're willing to compromise and will allow physical samples from their wedding if you agree not to put anything online?

Jun 30, 2012 at 04:45 PM

alohadave
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p.1 #4 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

brownchl wrote:
Am I out of line in thinking that I can charge an additional fee if I lose the right to use images for promotion?

You could do that, but are you okay with a couple not hiring you to maintain their privacy?

I wouldn't charge a fee to a couple that wanted privacy, it just smells like profiteering.

Jun 30, 2012 at 05:02 PM

brownchl
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p.1 #5 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

TTLKurtis wrote:
Now, is it possible they're willing to compromise and will allow physical samples from their wedding if you agree not to put anything online?

The bride had all her portraits done without her hijab, and I guess men (besides her husband) are not allowed to see women uncovered, in a photograph or live. That's what I understand anyway. Bridals took forever because the bride kept having to duck behind something every time a car drove by. I felt bad because the bride was getting pretty frustrated, but that's what happens when you pick a semi-public venue. It was out of my control.

I'd pretty much have to guarantee that only women would see the products, which would be nearly impossible.

Jun 30, 2012 at 05:08 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.1 #6 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

Ohhhhh. Gotcha... might wanna be sensitive about that sort of thing if that's the case, if that's your market.

Jun 30, 2012 at 06:12 PM

bagochips
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p.1 #7 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

In general, I would say it's fine to charge extra because the photos have value to you and your business. Future couples book you based on past weddings. If you don't have past wedding photos to show, you will have trouble booking. You can also bet that people shooting celebrity weddings, for example, are charging a lot extra when said celebrities want to keep those photos private.

Whether or not you want to lose bookings (and future referrals) over this is up to you.

I would ask (beforehand) if I could use the pictures as long as they didn't show the bride without her hijab, and put this in the contract.

Jun 30, 2012 at 09:30 PM

Mark_L
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p.1 #8 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

Bill them but it sounds like you signed, they signed, you shot it so it's far far too late though. At the price and standard contract you use the pictures, with their demands you can't so they should pay more for that. If all couples did this you would have a website with nothing on it, a facebook page with nothing on it and blank albums to show clients.

Paging TRR to thread...

Jun 30, 2012 at 09:39 PM

amonline
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p.1 #9 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

Been discussed before. You should have read that thread. You definitely should (have) charged a premium for the loss of marketing material. Especially, if it was your first/only wedding of this type.

I would sit down with them and ask for a reconsideration of some of your favorites.

Jun 30, 2012 at 10:52 PM

TRReichman
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p.1 #10 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

Mark_L wrote:
Bill them but it sounds like you signed, they signed, you shot it so it's far far too late though. At the price and standard contract you use the pictures, with their demands you can't so they should pay more for that. If all couples did this you would have a website with nothing on it, a facebook page with nothing on it and blank albums to show clients.

Paging TRR to thread...

Yes, I would have a fee to release levels of usage. If a client doesn't want you to show the work to anyone they are effectively dictating what you can do with your copyrighted material. That's totally fine, but there ought to be a cost for that kind of exclusivity. I am now working on a millionaire's wedding. They spent $250,000 on decor alone. It was amazing, and we can't show it. No problem, because the venue and coordinator know we can do the work and the exclusivity check cleared. Everyone walks away getting what they want.

If this happens once a year I wouldn't necessarily make a big deal about it. Having said that, I think everyone ought to have a policy on how to manage privacy requests. We sell them, and we're happy to do it. I like money better than padding out my portfolio. YMMV of course.

- trr

Jun 30, 2012 at 11:07 PM

DavidCZ
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p.1 #11 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

Yes the privacy should be sold with a fee. But this should have been ironed out before you shot the wedding, not after that.

If they took out the model release when they signed the contract and you still shot the wedding without saying anything about the extra fee, they I would suggest let it go.

Jul 01, 2012 at 02:12 AM

D. Diggler
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p.1 #12 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

brownchl wrote:
Am I out of line in thinking that I can charge an additional fee if I lose the right to use images for promotion?

Yes, you're out of line. That's pretty ridiculous to charge extra. Just don't take the job if it bothers you that much. There's plenty of desperate photogs standing in line who will take the job if you don't.

Actually, I've been in your shoes and have had this same request. It always seems like it's the nicest-looking weddings that don't want it shown.

I still get bummed whenever I think about a particular wedding I couldn't show from years back.

Jul 01, 2012 at 05:43 AM

brownchl
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p.1 #13 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

I was never considering going back and attempting to charge these particular clients with an extra fee. I signed the contract, so it's a done deal. I was thinking about altering my contract for cases in the future.

Jul 01, 2012 at 06:42 AM

marti.g3
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p.1 #14 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

D. Diggler wrote:
brownchl wrote:
Am I out of line in thinking that I can charge an additional fee if I lose the right to use images for promotion?

Yes, you're out of line. That's pretty ridiculous to charge extra. Just don't take the job if it bothers you that much. There's plenty of desperate photogs standing in line who will take the job if you don't.

Actually, I've been in your shoes and have had this same request. It always seems like it's the nicest-looking weddings that don't want it shown.

I still get bummed whenever I think about a particular wedding I couldn't show from years back.

Yeah but what if HIS work is such that the client really wants to hire HIM and not some clown who will underbid and under deliver ?

Jul 01, 2012 at 04:42 PM

coreymatthew
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p.1 #15 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

Its easy to justify the extra fee. Would that client have booked you if they couldn't see any samples from your previous weddings?

Jul 01, 2012 at 06:09 PM

tobicus
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p.1 #16 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

Agree with most here that it's fine to charge extra in the future for such cases. Make a plan and save it for next time.

Jul 02, 2012 at 05:54 AM

hendrikm
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p.1 #17 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

My "non-usage" price is a little bit more than 10%. And just another add on like an album or photobooth. About 20% of my couples choose it, mostly lawyers and IT-people(!). They can imagine what Google can do with your pictures 5 years from now...

Jul 02, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Kittyk
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p.1 #18 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

not an issue, show it on personal meeting.

50% of our couples want photos kept private.

Jul 02, 2012 at 12:36 PM

RDKirk
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p.1 #19 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

Kittyk wrote:
not an issue, show it on personal meeting.

50% of our couples want photos kept private.

I agree. A lot of my clients don't mind images shown hardcopy--even on public hardcopy display--but don't want to be posted on the internet.

That's a characteristic of that particular market, and if you want to enter it, you have to show that you're knowledgeable and sensitive to their proclivities.

You didn't need this couple's images on your website to get their business, so you won't need their images on your website for the next. You will, however, need their good word of mouth, which you won't get by charging them extra to accommodate their religious beliefs. In their minds, that's like charging extra for honoring a priest's requirement not to use a flash or shoot during mass.

Jul 02, 2012 at 03:25 PM

Tom Dix
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p.1 #20 · Fee for taking out the model release in contract?

I have charged extra, yet I have also let it pass it situations such as your clients. I would take the gig as is w/o additional fee. good luck

Jul 02, 2012 at 03:53 PM

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