Dual card slot shooting strategies

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nswelton
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p.1 #1 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Just moved to a pair of 5d3 bodies and am stoked to use dual card slots. Haven't made up my mind how to handle it though. Will shoot with each being backed up to a giant SD card, likely a 64gb one and likely the full RAW image. But for the CF card, wondering what peoples thoughts are on shooting with 1 giant CF card too, or a number of smaller cards. Thoughts?

Jun 26, 2012 at 01:42 AM

Sunny Sra
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p.1 #2 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Maybe this will help

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/24/dont-use-sd-cards-with-your-canon-5d-mark-iii-if-you-care-about-speed/

The CF card technology has matured well over the years. i don't shoot weddings, however i do shoot thousands of wildlife/landscape photos while out on my trips and the last couple of years i've been using only 64GB CF cards (Sandisk or Transcend). The new 5DIII supports UDMA7 so you can go up to 128GB cards.

Jun 26, 2012 at 01:54 AM

RichardLavigne
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p.1 #3 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

I've been doing some testing to determine how many shots you can actually take in burst on the 5DmkIII... and the answer can vary widely based on how you have the camera set up and what cards you're using. For instance.. common knowledge would say that shooting RAW+RAW would be slower because the RAW format has more data, but it seems that shooting RAW+JPEG is slower... I think it has to do with the 5DmkIII only having 1 processor so the processing of the JPEGS takes a toll on burst.

Here are my results.

Shooting RAW/RAW with a Sandisk Extreme CF (60 MB/S) and Sandisk Extreme Pro SD (95 MB/S) I was able to get 18 shots before hitting the buffer

RAW/RAW with a Sandisk Extreme CF (60 MB/S) and Sandisk Ultra SD (30 MB/S) I was able to get 11 shots before hitting the buffer

Shooting RAW/JPEG L with a Sandisk Extreme CF (60 MB/S) and Sandisk Extreme Pro SD (95 MB/S) I was able to get 12 shots before hitting the buffer

RAW/JPEG L with a Sandisk Extreme CF (60 MB/S) and Sandisk Ultra SD (30 MB/S) I was able to get 9 shots before hitting the buffer

Shooting RAW/RAW with a Sandisk Ultra CF (30 MB/S) and Sandisk Extreme Pro SD (95 MB/S) I was able to get 18 shots before hitting the buffer

RAW/RAW with a Sandisk Ultra CF (30 MB/S) and Sandisk Ultra SD (30 MB/S) I was able to get 15 shots before hitting the buffer

Shooting RAW/JPEG L with a Sandisk Ultra CF (30 MB/S) and Sandisk Extreme Pro SD (95 MB/S) I was able to get 7 shots before hitting the buffer

RAW/JPEG L with a Sandisk Ultra CF (30 MB/S) and Sandisk Ultra SD (30 MB/S) I was able to get 9 shots before hitting the buffer

Jun 26, 2012 at 02:25 AM

paparazzinick
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p.1 #4 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

All of our cameras have dual slots now. Starting last wedding season we use 2 64gb cards and put and entire event on them. We never let the camera out of sight. It is always in my hands. If I put it down to take a break or eat, the cards come out and in to my pocket. Same for my assistant.

Whats the likely hood of 2 cards failing at the same exact time? Very slim. Actually, we had one card go on us in the middle of the wedding. Not a problem, just popped 2 new cards in and kept shooting. My assistant downloaded the images from the card to our laptop to make sure we had backups of it and we went back on working full steam.

Some people wil cringe over this but seriously, how in the hell will 2 cards die at the same exact time? Its rare. Plus we get new cards every 15 events. We go through 15 events in a month, so always have fresh cards. technology has come a long way and I am confident we will never lose a gig.

But isnt that what we pay top $ for insurance?

Just hope we never use it. Also, if something major were to happen, no matter what size cards we used, we would be screwed.

Now for type of cards. We get the fastest and top brand. Not whats on sale. This is one area where quality is better over quantity,

Jun 26, 2012 at 02:32 AM

nswelton
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p.1 #5 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Wow, very interesting. Basically the SD card is the limiting factor, but it still makes a big difference between the Extreme Pro SD and the Ultra SD (11 vs 11 shots). I didn't expect the camera to be able to take advantage of the Pro's speed.

Aside from speed, though, what are opinions on data safety? I have lost only a few images in maybe a half million frames and have never had a fully corrupted card. Running dual 64gb cards seems safe, but I don't know if it's possible to corrupt both simultaneously. Like, with mirrored RAID, the computer can just write bad files to both drives. Can that happen and if so can it obliterate everything on a card? Is it safer to run a big SD card and 8 or 16gb CF cards?

Jun 26, 2012 at 02:33 AM

RichardLavigne
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p.1 #6 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

We shoot 32 gb sd's and 16 fb cf's.

Jun 26, 2012 at 03:36 AM

stevez32
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p.1 #7 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

paparazzinick wrote:
Some people wil cringe over this but seriously, how in the hell will 2 cards die at the same exact time? Its rare. Plus we get new cards every 15 events. We go through 15 events in a month, so always have fresh cards. technology has come a long way and I am confident we will never lose a gig.

The two cards might not "die" a natural death at the same time but they are electrically connected to the same camera which may fry/overwrite/format/corrupt both cards at the same time.

Jun 26, 2012 at 04:40 AM

broken-taco
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p.1 #8 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

stevez32 wrote:
paparazzinick wrote:
Some people wil cringe over this but seriously, how in the hell will 2 cards die at the same exact time? Its rare. Plus we get new cards every 15 events. We go through 15 events in a month, so always have fresh cards. technology has come a long way and I am confident we will never lose a gig.

The two cards might not "die" a natural death at the same time but they are electrically connected to the same camera which may fry/overwrite/format/corrupt both cards at the same time.

Theoretically possible, but I've never heard of it happening.

I'm shooting raw to both cards. Both cameras have 32gb sandisk cards. Have yet to hit buffer during a wedding.

Jun 26, 2012 at 05:02 AM

DavidWEGS
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p.1 #9 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Other than the fact I now shoot Nikon, I have been using large cards with redundant backup to the second card for some years now. I never have to change (or loose, or damage or accidentally format) a card while I am shooting.

I don't do that with the second body, but if you are using two bodies with dual cards, why not.

Jun 26, 2012 at 05:02 AM

aborr
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p.1 #10 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

On 1D's I write raws to the CF and jpegs to the SD card. I like the idea of having two copies of the images in different places at the end of the night, even though I never plan to use the jpegs. I've never lost a card or an image, but no doubt "Murphy's Law" will eventually catch up with me.

The raw/JPEg split helps somewhat with two-card burst speeds on some 1 series cameras. From RichardLavigne's tests (above) it doesn't seem to work well on 5d3's.

Jun 26, 2012 at 05:08 AM

jprezant
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p.1 #11 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

paparazzinick wrote:

Some people wil cringe over this but seriously, how in the hell will 2 cards die at the same exact time? Its rare. Plus we get new cards every 15 events. We go through 15 events in a month, so always have fresh cards. technology has come a long way and I am confident we will never lose a gig.

are you serious? you get new cards every 15 events? ..... why? our cards don't have a 15 event shelf life.

Jun 26, 2012 at 05:56 AM

PhilDrinkwater
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p.1 #12 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Sunny Sra wrote:
Maybe this will help

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/24/dont-use-sd-cards-with-your-canon-5d-mark-iii-if-you-care-about-speed/

I think this is a good example of why you should do your own tests. I've been shooting the 5d3 for a month or so with dual cards and it's fine. I'm sure if you shoot sports it might cause problems, but for weddings you're unlikely to hit the buffer very often at all.

OP: I use large cards in CF and SD. Realistically there's very little chance both will get corrupted and if you keep your camera with you - don't let it get stolen - it's likely to cause you no problem.

Jun 26, 2012 at 09:17 AM

DavidWEGS
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p.1 #13 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

stevez32 wrote:
The two cards might not "die" a natural death at the same time but they are electrically connected to the same camera which may fry/overwrite/format/corrupt both cards at the same time.

And while this is theoretically possible, I have yet (been using some form of digital for 15 years) to hear of one instance of this happening... you?

Jun 26, 2012 at 11:08 AM

Mark_L
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p.1 #14 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Shoot jpg to the SD card, jpg is going to be good insurance for most pictures and no speed issues.

Jun 26, 2012 at 11:27 AM

RichardLavigne
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p.1 #15 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

aborr wrote:
On 1D's I write raws to the CF and jpegs to the SD card. I like the idea of having two copies of the images in different places at the end of the night, even though I never plan to use the jpegs. I've never lost a card or an image, but no doubt "Murphy's Law" will eventually catch up with me.

The raw/JPEg split helps somewhat with two-card burst speeds on some 1 series cameras. From RichardLavigne's tests (above) it doesn't seem to work well on 5d3's.

I used to shoot a 1DmkIII and I would shoot RAW to CF and JPEG to SD and never had an issue. I think it is because the 1 series cams have dual processors. My testing says there is a distinct difference when writing both formats with the 5DmkIII and I think that is due to the processing of JPEG shots

PhilDrinkwater wrote:
Sunny Sra wrote:
Maybe this will help

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/24/dont-use-sd-cards-with-your-canon-5d-mark-iii-if-you-care-about-speed/

I think this is a good example of why you should do your own tests. I've been shooting the 5d3 for a month or so with dual cards and it's fine. I'm sure if you shoot sports it might cause problems, but for weddings you're unlikely to hit the buffer very often at all.

OP: I use large cards in CF and SD. Realistically there's very little chance both will get corrupted and if you keep your camera with you - don't let it get stolen - it's likely to cause you no problem.

I have hit the buffer only a few times... I wouldn't say that I'm particularly trigger happy, but there have been moments where I've needed a burst of 8 or more shots. Since switching to RAW/RAW, I have not hit the buffer.

Mark_L wrote:
Shoot jpg to the SD card, jpg is going to be good insurance for most pictures and no speed issues.

Shooting JPEG to the SD card will not help speed issues... it make it worse.

Jun 26, 2012 at 11:50 AM

PhilDrinkwater
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p.1 #16 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Mark_L wrote:
Shoot jpg to the SD card, jpg is going to be good insurance for most pictures and no speed issues.

Sadly not. This makes the situation worse. The buffer reduces from something like 12 to something like 6 shots...

Jun 26, 2012 at 01:02 PM

M. Magallon
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p.1 #17 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

jprezant wrote:
paparazzinick wrote:

Some people wil cringe over this but seriously, how in the hell will 2 cards die at the same exact time? Its rare. Plus we get new cards every 15 events. We go through 15 events in a month, so always have fresh cards. technology has come a long way and I am confident we will never lose a gig.

are you serious? you get new cards every 15 events? ..... why? our cards don't have a 15 event shelf life.

Curious about the rationale too. There's nothing mechanical that can break down w/ CF cards. The new ones you get are just as likely to fail as ones that are a year old.

Jun 26, 2012 at 01:16 PM

DavidWEGS
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p.1 #18 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Its has been discussed a while back (when CF and SD were the new things to write to) about failures. The general consensus is that if a card will fail, its either pretty much right away (like the first time you either fill the card, format the card or use it), or it will fail at the end of its cycle of life (for most cards, that time is around 100k erases, not images, erases as in format cycles).

That's what I recall from this discussion in the past.

Jun 26, 2012 at 02:31 PM

tonyhart
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p.1 #19 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

What I've been doing is shooting to a range of CF cards and one big 64GB SD card per camera. I originally intended the SD card to be the backup, but the CF cards are the backup as that way I can plug in the two SD cards on return to the office and walk away. I shoot RAW to both as I find this allows for more shots before the buffer maxes out.

Jun 26, 2012 at 02:34 PM

nswelton
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p.1 #20 · Dual card slot shooting strategies

Yeah I've been reading another thread where a guy shoots on 3 16 GB CF cards per event and one giant SD card as backup. Kind of a good middle ground between redundancy and safety it seems.

Jun 26, 2012 at 03:29 PM

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