Pentax 67II ??

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Pentax 67II ??

Gyroscope
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p.1 #1 · Pentax 67II ??

Back in the day when I was a bumbling idiot with a camera and just starting to learn photography I lusted after a Pentax 67ii. Now that I know what I am doing (I think) I shoot with a 5Dmk2 and 7D have a range of L-lens from 17-500 with a 24ts-e on order. I shoot mainly landscape with some wildlife and becoming more and more drawn to black and white images.

So now that the costs have come down so much and second hand stuff still comes up for sale regularly should I buy a used Pentax 67ii with a 45mm lens and some tri-x film to have a play around with and shoot a bit of landscape? I've never used a MF camera before and have no idea what to expect in image quality - I know it was always considered good but surely its not going to be any better than what I am getting out of the 5D2?

Any thoughts from those who have actually used or still own this legendary camera? Anyone use it alongside digital and what does it give you that digital doesn't? I might just get one to satisfy my curiosity and keep it as a bit of history to have on my shelf

I do have a decent Epson V700 scanner and I know somewhere I can get quality developing done so that side of things should be easy and there still seems to be plenty of film on ebay.

Jun 16, 2012 at 09:40 AM

JohnJ
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p.1 #2 · Pentax 67II ??

I can't comment on the Pentax 67ii specifically but I think you will find that sharpness from a 5D2, or most digital cameras, already exceeds that of a 6x7 neg. What you will get is a different rendering and DOF due to the larger sensor. This might be enough.

Are you aware that a 45mm lens on a 6x7 give you a very wide field of view? A 'standard' lens in in the 100mm range.

JJ

Jun 16, 2012 at 11:55 AM

AhamB
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p.1 #3 · Pentax 67II ??

JohnJ wrote:
Are you aware that a 45mm lens on a 6x7 give you a very wide field of view? A 'standard' lens in in the 100mm range.

Well, he said he wanted to shoot landscapes with it, so wide angle seems like a natural choice?

Jun 16, 2012 at 12:25 PM

mawz
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p.1 #4 · Pentax 67II ??

AhamB wrote:
JohnJ wrote:
Are you aware that a 45mm lens on a 6x7 give you a very wide field of view? A 'standard' lens in in the 100mm range.

Well, he said he wanted to shoot landscapes with it, so wide angle seems like a natural choice?

45mm is very wide on 6x7, I'd be looking at a 65-75mm myself for 6x7 and most landscape work for a field of view in the 28-35mm-e range

Jun 16, 2012 at 02:24 PM

Gunzorro
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p.1 #5 · Pentax 67II ??

I think a good scan on 6x7 neg/trans still gives it the edge over a 5D2 or 5D3. With a drum scanner, you can easily get over 50MB, I don't have the exact limit, but it is high.

The Epson 700 will work, but not be stellar. But it will get you going. The scanning has always been the main thing that stopped me from pursuing more shooting with my 6x7s. That, and the hassle and expense of film developing. It's amazing how fast costs add up compared to buying a new hard drive or memory card!

As noted, the 45mm is quite wide. 6x7 format is roughly double the field of view of 35mm. So a 45mm is really like a 21mm view. 75mm is close to 35mm, and 55mm is similar to 28mm.

As John said, the "look" is quite different due to the relatively shallow DOF, unless greatly stopped down. f/8 gives closer to what you are used to with f/4 on 35mm size format. For landscape, this isn't a problem with a tripod, as you can go into f/16 and f/22 without diffraction problems on the larger format size, giving a DOF look more like f/8-11.

I'm just starting to use my 67II again, and bought on eBay (from Calumet) a used 135 Macro add to my collection of lenses. That should be fun! A couple weeks ago, I got a "beater" 165mm f/2.8 for $80 on eBay, which cleaned up really nicely! Great deals are to be had.

Jun 16, 2012 at 03:17 PM

corposant
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p.1 #6 · Pentax 67II ??

Get some PanF or other low speed film and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how much detail you can pick up in a 6x7 image.

I have some experience with the 55mm for the P67 and I think you may want to start with that over the 45mm - the newest version is stellar.

Jun 16, 2012 at 03:34 PM

redisburning
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p.1 #7 · Pentax 67II ??

if you like wides, the 45 is quite wide.

the P67 is a great camera. Im not sure I would recommend tri-x though if you are looking for the ultimate in image quality; it has a great tonality and is easy to control but resolution isn't it's strong suit. I like Acros, personally.

comparison of lots of cameras:

http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2011/12/big-camera-comparison/

if your technique is good you can get a lot more out of 6x7 than a 35mm dslr. I mean, the 5d II does what, 80 lp/mm? Well let's say you hit that max, don't you think 60 on 6x7 is going to give you more detail than 80 from a 35mm sensor? And mr. perez tested the takumar 45mm at higher resolutions anyway, on tmax.

anyway, that is all a waste to think about IMO, MF film looks great. you should do it because the overall result is so nice, not because of a few numbers.

Jun 16, 2012 at 08:28 PM

mawz
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p.1 #8 · Pentax 67II ??

corposant wrote:
Get some PanF or other low speed film and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how much detail you can pick up in a 6x7 image.

I have some experience with the 55mm for the P67 and I think you may want to start with that over the 45mm - the newest version is stellar.

If you really want to be amazed track down some Adox CMS20. You'll need to be very careful with technique to get the best from it (MLU and a tripod are a MUST), but the resolution is insane. It's the closest equivalent to the now discontinued Kodak Technical Pan and is readily available in 120.

Jun 16, 2012 at 09:25 PM

philip_pj
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p.1 #9 · Pentax 67II ??

As to the 45mm FL, it's around 23mm equivalent on 35mm but of course the aspect ratio is very different, so the usual method of determining this is not the full story - the elongated rectangle of 35mm is very different to the rectangular square of 67. What this means is you better have plenty of good foreground because you will be dealing with it every shot, that or crop.

The Pentax 67 is perhaps the funniest camera ever made, many people just laugh when they first lay eyes on one! It's staggeringly huge and yet is a perfect copy of a 35mm film SLR. Be warned the mirror slap is massive. Do try and see one in a adult human hand, it will look like a 3 year old's hand.

Michael Reichmann used one for some time (link below) but I recommend a Mamiya rangefinder for this work - an exquisite camera for landscapes, light, small, fabulous lenses, no vibration (leaf shutter), easy handholding...

67 film done right - it depends on type of film. Fine grain E6 (Astia, Velvia, Provia) will exceed the ~24Mp DSLRs by a small but significant amount, we are talking good exposure, film scanner/drum scanner, film kept flat, then good PS work. Huge files even by todays standards, several hundreds of Mbs of 16 bit goodness to play with.

B&W is a different matter. Digital may never get on par with this superb hi-res technology, a century old or thereabouts, with huge DR and fantastic detail rendition. Ask Zeiss.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax67ii.shtml

Jun 16, 2012 at 11:42 PM

Gyroscope
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p.1 #10 · Pentax 67II ??

Thanks for all the info. Yes I was aware of the fact that 45mm was wide angle. I admit I hadn't thought about the aspect ratio so a 55mm might be fine. I do like landsacpes with nice close foregrounds. Yes I would be talking about using ONLY black and white and shooting the most fine grained best black and white film I can get. It sounds like I might get some good shots out of it. I do know a bit about the Mamiya 7 but I am put off my it being a rangefinder. I feel I am more comfortable shooting SLR style wih a metered viewfinder and my Z-pro filter system on the front. Yes I amare its a handful to handle but would only be interested in using it on a tripod with MLU.

Food for thought. Might be worth it just for the experience of shooting MF film which I missed out on before digitial starting taking over and just for a bit of fun occasionally.

Jun 17, 2012 at 12:01 AM

chez
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p.1 #11 · Pentax 67II ??

The P67 kicks ass when it comes to B&W compared to the 5D2. I have used both and Acros 6x7 is amazing. You need to use a dedicated film scanner like the Nikon 8000/9000 to really do justice to the negatives.

Jun 17, 2012 at 12:17 AM

redisburning
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p.1 #12 · Pentax 67II ??

Gyroscope wrote:
Food for thought. Might be worth it just for the experience of shooting MF film which I missed out on before digitial starting taking over and just for a bit of fun occasionally.

I think you should.

Film for me is about enjoyment/involvement of/in the process. When you pull your first batch of a new film, or your favorite out of a new camera, it's really special. A great and rewarding feeling that I just dont get out of raw.

Jun 17, 2012 at 01:54 AM

corposant
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p.1 #13 · Pentax 67II ??

Gyroscope wrote:
I do know a bit about the Mamiya 7 but I am put off my it being a rangefinder. I feel I am more comfortable shooting SLR style wih a metered viewfinder and my Z-pro filter system on the front. Yes I amare its a handful to handle but would only be interested in using it on a tripod with MLU.

Pentax 67ii with the (light) 105mm lens: 3.9 pounds
Mamiya 7 with the 80mm lens: 2.5

And both viewfinders are metered. And I am not just saying this because I have a Mamiya 7 for sale. :-P

Jun 17, 2012 at 03:56 AM

philip_pj
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p.1 #14 · Pentax 67II ??

I would not want to turn you off the 67II - just having some fun. All 67 cameras deliver great results, but you are on a tripod with an SLR to my mind.

The Mamiya is special as the rear element is placed oh so close to the film, it has industry best film flatness outside the 645 Contax, and they are top of the tree in clarity and resolution - almost too contrasty for colour film also. What is to like is that they looked after each step of the process chain - no mirror, leaf shutter, brilliant shutter button, great grip, light weight, film flatness, excellent film path, lens design.

Some more information on lens tests for these and other systems, an a disclaimer: I am not in cahoots with corposant ;-/ I hope you like the 67II, an excellent camera in its own right.

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

Jun 17, 2012 at 06:19 AM

carstenw
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p.1 #15 · Pentax 67II ??

mawz wrote:
corposant wrote:
Get some PanF or other low speed film and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how much detail you can pick up in a 6x7 image.

I have some experience with the 55mm for the P67 and I think you may want to start with that over the 45mm - the newest version is stellar.

If you really want to be amazed track down some Adox CMS20. You'll need to be very careful with technique to get the best from it (MLU and a tripod are a MUST), but the resolution is insane. It's the closest equivalent to the now discontinued Kodak Technical Pan and is readily available in 120.

I love Adox (or Efke, same product) CMS 25 ART. I get about 20MP of information with 645 and an Epson V750, so there should be room for a bit more with high-end scanning.

Jun 17, 2012 at 07:34 AM

chez
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p.1 #16 · Pentax 67II ??

corposant wrote:
Gyroscope wrote:
I do know a bit about the Mamiya 7 but I am put off my it being a rangefinder. I feel I am more comfortable shooting SLR style wih a metered viewfinder and my Z-pro filter system on the front. Yes I amare its a handful to handle but would only be interested in using it on a tripod with MLU.

Pentax 67ii with the (light) 105mm lens: 3.9 pounds
Mamiya 7 with the 80mm lens: 2.5

And both viewfinders are metered. And I am not just saying this because I have a Mamiya 7 for sale. :-P

The Mamiya system will set you back at least $1000 whereas the p76 system can be had for $400. You also have a larger range of lenses with the Pentax system, many going for dirt cheap these days whereas the Mamiya lenses still command a premium price.

Jun 17, 2012 at 12:09 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #17 · Pentax 67II ??

Some of my best black and white work was on pan f! But I can't bear to go back to film. Les depth of field on medium format. Make sure it has mirror lockup. I think this one has that.

Jun 17, 2012 at 05:15 PM

Gyroscope
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p.1 #18 · Pentax 67II ??

Well if I do get an MF camera I think its going to have to be a P67ii. I'll watch ebay to see if a deal comes up I can't refuse

Jun 17, 2012 at 07:10 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #19 · Pentax 67II ??

Get an enlarger and some fiber base paper too!

Jun 17, 2012 at 10:02 PM

Jewced
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p.1 #20 · Pentax 67II ??

Do it!! I've been using a Mamiya RZ67 and scanning with a V700. The quality is awesome. With a 4800dpi scan, file sizes are HUGE (a little over 400MB in TIFF format) and there is still more detail that could be brought out with better scan settings or a better scanner. It's a world far far beyond what my D3100 could ever bring me, and although the D3100 is no 5D2, I believe that a 6x7 neg can definitely give a 5D2 a run for its money.

Jun 18, 2012 at 07:54 PM

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