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Archive 2012 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Pleas...
  
 
Hulot
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p.3 #1 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


splathrop wrote:
The D800 is going to be a great, great camera in its next, sorted out implementation. For now, for every application but extremely large prints, the 5D III beats the D800. The commenters who are trying to suggest autofocus deficiencies in Canon's present lineup don't know what they are talking about. The 5D III or 1 Dx will deliver more keepers (judged on focus sharpness) than any Nikon body.



I strongly disagree! Canon is sitting on a 5 years old sensor. The D800 offers a higher quality file that is way ahead of the 5d3. I often have to push about a stop in post because I want to keep the highlights under control and I often use orange or red filters in b/w RAW processing, truth is that the Canon file just doesnt hold up here. Sometimes I used to do bracketing on the Canon to conter or set up more lights. Now I use a D800 with the 24-70 VC and I get files like never before.

I can see that the 5D MKIII is a great camera, better than previous 1Ds and 5D camera. The sensor has not improved a lot though, only at hi ISO's, it really doesnt have to offer anything over the D800 for slow photography



Apr 09, 2013 at 01:09 PM
2of9
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p.3 #2 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


I believe either Canon or Nikon can just be as sharp. When a co-worker(Canon 5d2) and I (Nikon D90) took identical photos and showed it to our receptionist, she couldn't really tell the difference. All she knew was that the quality on both was just amazing compared to her Sony P&S. All in all, the money we spend on these investments will give what we need and it's supremely up to the user's end to make sure that image is 'sharp'

But, I can definitely add that the 50 1.8G is probably sharper than the 24-70...or am I going crazy? lol!



Apr 09, 2013 at 01:47 PM
mco_970
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p.3 #3 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


splathrop wrote:
For now, for every application but extremely large prints, the 5D III beats the D800. The commenters who are trying to suggest autofocus deficiencies in Canon's present lineup don't know what they are talking about. The 5D III or 1 Dx will deliver more keepers (judged on focus sharpness) than any Nikon body.


Hmmm. I am over in Nikon camp because my 5D3 could not focus it's way out of a wet paper bag with the side points. There is some body variation and it did not leave me feeling like the AF issues were sorted out with the 5D3.

I have not felt the need to focus adjust my Nikon lenses on my D600. It just works.

I did focus adjust my 300mm lens on my D7100, and I find with Nikon the AF is reliable enough I can take 1 or 2 photos at each MA setting and get a very reliable result. With Canon I had to shoot larger series of photos at each MA setting to get a somewhat reliable result.

Overall, I'm much happier with Nikon's AF. Just my $0.02 and YMMV.



Apr 09, 2013 at 03:15 PM
NathanHamler
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p.3 #4 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


2of9 wrote:
I believe either Canon or Nikon can just be as sharp. When a co-worker(Canon 5d2) and I (Nikon D90) took identical photos and showed it to our receptionist, she couldn't really tell the difference. All she knew was that the quality on both was just amazing compared to her Sony P&S. All in all, the money we spend on these investments will give what we need and it's supremely up to the user's end to make sure that image is 'sharp'

But, I can definitely add that the 50 1.8G is probably sharper than the 24-70...or am I going crazy? lol!
...Show more


Lenses get sharper as you stop down from wide open (to a point)....both lenses at 2.8, i'd say the prime will most likely be sharper, if only b/c it's already stopped down more than 1 stop....by f/5.6 i bet you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference...



Apr 09, 2013 at 03:18 PM
Airphoto
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p.3 #5 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


There is a fluidity and dynamic range that goes with full frame. It is not as easily duplicated on the dx format.
The lens on Canon are equally sharp. I would suggest a 1ds on the canon side,
But another factor is 75% of the market is canon. And the Nikon autofocus is generally better with the exception of the the 1d series on Canon.
I am currently Nikon and I was canon for the last 10 years. I personally hate the 5d and the 5dII for their autofocus system.
THe other issue is even if you are looking at a jpg on line it could have been made from a raw file with talented post processing. I currently use capture one for sharpness, then lightroom for sorting and photoshop for final file adjustments, after that my jpgs look incredible,( I also have dxo which also does incredible work on dynamic range).
And my monitor is rated for photoshop and calibrated.
Sony and Nikon have a slightly better dynamic range but that is usually fixable in post processing,
The point is only 50% of your photo comes straight form the camera and either system will work great, and Sony has some great stuff although their 900 and 850 are dated they create a great image. and their 16-35 is second to none.

And now DX vs FX . If you use good glass the results are incredible using any of the fx systems.
You just have to control your variables. Proper use of your tools is important as good optics.



Apr 09, 2013 at 03:41 PM
Mark_L
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p.3 #6 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


binary visions wrote:
Comparing forum-posted images and coming to a conclusion about Canon vs. Nikon is like buying a stove because you ate a good dinner cooked with it. You're seeing the output, the end result of a combination of camera, glass, circumstances, light, and (most importantly) photographer. It might be the best stove in the world but a good output is a mixture of a lot of things.


Even beyond that they are tiny images. A iso6400 misfocused shot can look noiseless and sharp at web size and super sharp 36MP shot can look soft if sharpening is not applied after resizing.



Apr 09, 2013 at 04:06 PM
MDoc9523
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p.3 #7 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


I switched to Nikon a couple years ago because of the D7000's dynamic range and aesthetics. I did notice that my photos improved greatly even though with Canon I had spent a lot of money to secure their L series lenses.
The second reason for my switch was the ability to use the AIS manual focus lenses. I had mostly used zoom lenses and wanted to go to a collection of prime lenses. I have now upgraded to the D600 and I can tell you this: when I shoot with my 85mm 1.4 AIS on my D600 I get the sharpest most detailed photos that I have ever taken!



Apr 09, 2013 at 04:35 PM
splathrop
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p.3 #8 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


Some commenters have mentioned as a Nikon advantage the D800's dynamic range, which I did not mention specifically in my original comment. Their points are well taken, and I wish I had that kind of dynamic range available on my 5D III. But I wouldn't always use it. My admiration comes with some caveats.

First, it doesn't matter much on many, many images—at least among the ones I take using natural light. Because in the majority of outdoor venues where I shoot, the natural light available isn't usually even dynamic enough to use the 5D III's full capabilities. So it's a non-issue on most of my images. If I lived in the mountain west, it would probably be different.

Second, big dynamic range invites problems, in addition to conferring advantages. Image threads from the D800 are loaded with extremely dull-looking images, more of that than I have seen from any other camera. They probably don't have to be that way. A judicious exposure or curve adjustment would spread some of the flattened tones, and confer some life-giving contrast. But that would throw away some of that coveted dynamic range, by pushing some tones into the blacks—from which I suspect they were initially lifted, inadvertently producing those tonally compressed flat-looking images in the first place. Also, remember that if you plan to print your images, there is only limited use for more dynamic range in your image than your printer can match.

Note too that real world scenes are full of opaque shadows. Look around. You will see them everywhere. It's not a sin to have them in your pictures.

A great example of where big dynamic range helps is when you are showing shadows and brighter areas that are discontinuous, with a tonal gap between. A classic example is the indoor/outdoor through-the-window shot. For now, nothing beats the D800 for that kind of image.

But if what you are trying to do is capture continuous tones from deep shadow to bright highlights, you need to remember that spreading tones apart is contrast's friend, and pushing them together can suppress perceived detail. Using that great D800 dynamic range to best advantage is something you can do with only a minority of typical images. And doing it requires judicious post-processing that seems to challenge many users.



Apr 09, 2013 at 05:40 PM
Hulot
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p.3 #9 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


you obviously never owned or even used a D800


Apr 09, 2013 at 06:19 PM
workerdrone
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p.3 #10 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


I switched to Nikon a while back solely due to focusing issues with my Canon gear. I didn't really want to switch, because I like to buy used and the market is much easier with Canon - a lot more and a lot better deals out there vs. Nikon. Even with fine tuning ('microadjust'), and a collection of nice L glass, I was frustrated with a lot of just-out-of-focus shots. There was widespread wailing on the Canon forum that I frequented with the same complaints.

Sold the whole bag, picked up a D700 and a few lenses, and was blown away. Same techniques, completely different results. Nearly every shot was in focus. It was really a revelation. I've had similar great results with a couple of D7000's and a D800.

Now it seems Nikon has had its share of focus issues, with many users complaining about the D7000 and D800. I think a lot of these are due to user error or misunderstanding, but some not. I just know that I didn't change anything about my technique and switching to Nikon made all the difference at that time.

And I'd be willing to believe that Canon has made strides with the newer bodies to improve. With either system, I consider AF fine tuning to be critical. It's great that, in the absence of the wonderful prisms of film days that made focus confirmation so much easier, manufacturers have put in this capability.

Your mileage may vary.



Apr 09, 2013 at 06:41 PM
 

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PhilDrinkwater
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p.3 #11 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


How did sharpness of a small online jpeg turn into an AF contest?

Well these things happen on the Internet I suppose...

Those who are still claiming Nikon af superiority in the higher end cameras would do well to do some research. You might be surprised. My wedding photographer friend ditched his d4 / d3s for 1dx / 5d3 after trying my 5d3. He's amazed that it is way more positive and accurate. The 1dx is lightning fast. He's happy as larry

As for either brand looking sharper? This is just totally false. It will be down to the lens used or the post production.



Apr 09, 2013 at 11:04 PM
caad4rep
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p.3 #12 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


splathrop wrote:
Some commenters have mentioned as a Nikon advantage the D800's dynamic range, which I did not mention specifically in my original comment. Their points are well taken, and I wish I had that kind of dynamic range available on my 5D III. But I wouldn't always use it. My admiration comes with some caveats.

First, it doesn't matter much on many, many images—at least among the ones I take using natural light. Because in the majority of outdoor venues where I shoot, the natural light available isn't usually even dynamic enough to use the 5D III's full capabilities. So it's a
...Show more

Well said!



Apr 09, 2013 at 11:28 PM
brian_sp
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p.3 #13 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


PhilDrinkwater wrote:
Those who are still claiming Nikon af superiority in the higher end cameras would do well to do some research.


funny thing is, quite a few here claiming it are ex canon shooters, instead of the "my friend did this and told me that" kind of bull



Apr 10, 2013 at 12:44 AM
DocsPics
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p.3 #14 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


Ryder wrote:
It's because Nikon shooters are stronger, smarter, and all their children are above average.



You left out that their wives are better looking and more tolerant of purchasing expensive (black) lenses.

These are all evidenced based truths.



Apr 10, 2013 at 02:14 AM
colincarter46
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p.3 #15 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


brian_sp wrote:
funny thing is, quite a few here claiming it are ex canon shooters, instead of the "my friend did this and told me that" kind of bull


I'm an ex Canon shooter having had all their pro cameras upto and including the 1dmk4 and most of their lenses from the 24-70 upto the 300 f2.8, 400f2.8, 500 and 600 f4is lenses and I loved all of them except the 1dmk3 which was a pile of c**p compared to the superb 1dmk2n, I act it was the diabolical way canon treated its pro customers with 1dmk3's that led me down the path to sell everything and move to Nikon.

So I sold off £50,000.00 worth of Canon gear and bought a d3 and some pro lenses including the 300 f2.8vr just as the d3 was launched and I must say I've never looked back.ive now switched to the d800 and looking at getting a d5 when it's launched if its over 24mpixels.

As I said in an earlier post another shooter I go out with has a new Canon 1dx and some pro lenses including the superb 300f2.8is, probably one of Canon's fastest focusing and sharpest lenses.

My d800 and 500f4 was easily the equal and possibly better than his 1dx and 300 at tracking the motorbikes at 180mph and above. My files are just as sharp and certainly larger, more detailed and have greater dynamic range.

I also came home with more keepers, the 1dx still seems jumpy and nervous always see,ingly to be trying to change af, which is great for initial lock on and not so good as Nikon for staying locked on when tracking. Anyone saying the af on the 1dx is in a league of its own is diluded, it just isn't and Canon's lenses aren't sharper than Nikon's in real world usage. Both Companies have strengths and weaknesses in the lens ranges, so perhaps the way forward is having both systems?

Both systems produce superb images at the end of the day and it is still down to the photographer at the end of the day. Good gear helps but it certainly isn't the biggest factor in the equation.



Apr 10, 2013 at 07:09 AM
PhilDrinkwater
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p.3 #16 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


brian_sp wrote:
funny thing is, quite a few here claiming it are ex canon shooters, instead of the "my friend did this and told me that" kind of bull


That's the point - they're ex Canon shooters who, on the whole, had previous generations of cameras where AF was shocking.

That's not the case any more.

You'll of course find the occasional person who doesn't like what's there now or has an error of some kind, but generally what you see on the Canon forums now is issues with sensor DR at low ISO whereas on Nikon forums now you see to see a lot of QC issues.

Times have moved on. This is now, not then.

Edited on Apr 10, 2013 at 10:41 AM · View previous versions



Apr 10, 2013 at 10:24 AM
PhilDrinkwater
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p.3 #17 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


colincarter46 wrote:
As I said in an earlier post another shooter I go out with has a new Canon 1dx and some pro lenses including the superb 300f2.8is, probably one of Canon's fastest focusing and sharpest lenses.

My d800 and 500f4 was easily the equal and possibly better than his 1dx and 300 at tracking the motorbikes at 180mph and above. My files are just as sharp and certainly larger, more detailed and have greater dynamic range.

I also came home with more keepers, the 1dx still seems jumpy and nervous always see,ingly to be trying to change af, which is great for
...Show more

Honestly.. in all of the testing I've seen done I'm not sure about that at all. Something else was wrong. Even with the 1dx compared with the d4, the 1dx comes out on top, certainly with stills. It's way faster to focus than any other system. However, whereas the Nikon seemed to produce more hits, those hits were consistently not as accurate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNFOPrIKmQ
(See about 8:30)

Possibly the wrong AF mode was selected on the 1dx. Possibly there was an issue.

I'm not saying that everything in Canon land is perfect. The same is true of Nikon. No one said that the 1dx was in a league of it's own - you've just made that up. However, my friend is happier compared with his previous cameras. The 1dx IS faster to focus. It drives the lens 2-3 times faster. That's a fact.

Go to the Canon forums and see how many people are complaining about AF now. Pretty much no one.

At the very least the two systems are virtually identical and have slight edges in particular areas.

I restate my point, which seems to have been lost in slight misreading: anyone saying Nikon is superior in AF should do a little more research. Be fair to both systems *now* or we might as well start saying "Nikon has terrible resolution" since, last generation, 12mp was all you could get.

I don't know why you brought up lenses or sensor or detail or DR. None of those were mentioned? If you want to compare all of the differences, compare ALL of the differences and not just the ones you want to mention.



Apr 10, 2013 at 10:37 AM
colincarter46
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p.3 #18 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


PhilDrinkwater wrote:
Honestly.. in all of the testing I've seen done I'm not sure about that at all. Something else was wrong. Even with the 1dx compared with the d4, the 1dx comes out on top, certainly with stills. It's way faster to focus than any other system. However, whereas the Nikon seemed to produce more hits, those hits were consistently not as accurate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNFOPrIKmQ
(See about 8:30)

Possibly the wrong AF mode was selected on the 1dx. Possibly there was an issue.

I'm not saying that everything in Canon land is perfect. The same is true of Nikon. No one said that the 1dx
...Show more

Lets just agree to disagree, it's not work arguing. I tried all the setting on the 1dx and I stand by my findings, as you do yours. If either of these systems can't get the shot then its likely the photographer at fault.



Apr 10, 2013 at 11:22 AM
Gary Irwin
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p.3 #19 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


At the risk of turning this thread into a Nikon love fest I thought I'd chip in my 2 cents. Been shooting Nikon for a number of years but last year tried out Canon (1D4, 800L , 70-200 etc.). At the margin, both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. No doubt there are slight performance differences in the way AF works with the latest and best of breed from both Nikon and Canon and I have no idea which is better. Both vendors have some great glass and some not so great glass, features etc. Unfortunately Nikon is currently suffering through a bout of QC issues of the type that used to plague Canon.

But for me, it all comes down IQ potential -- resolution, ISO performance and DR -- and in that department Nikon's sensors trump Canon's across the board. It's not even close.

So as much as I admire Canon's recent QC, system options and supertele lineup, I couldn't consider going white until/when Canon revamp's it's sensor lineup.

For years, the rule of thumb has been it's better to invest in glass rather than bodies, but I no longer agree with this; sensor performance has become the trump card.

In the words of Trenchmonkey: just sayin'!



Apr 10, 2013 at 02:30 PM
bipock
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p.3 #20 · Why do Nikon images look sharper and better to me? Please help another undecided.


As an ex-Canon shooter, I made the switch due AF challenges, including the new 5D3. My version of that camera couldn't track a moving object consistently despite trying numerous settings in the different AF settings. My 1D4 was pretty good at that. The 7D, well, it was the 7D.

I made the switch because I liked the Nikon SYSTEM better - not necessarily one body or one lens. It's all personal preference at the end of the day. I will say that I am more impressed thus far with my pictures from the Nikon side than I was with Canon. Haven't put my finger on it yet, but there is something different between the two and the Nikon is more pleasing.



Apr 10, 2013 at 03:00 PM
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