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Archive 2012 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px d...
  
 
pompo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


The Nikon D800 can obviously capture lots details with its 36 mpix for print work.But for screen only/internet I wonder if we compare two images shot with an 8 mpix camera and a 16 mpix camera after cropping the images at same size for web, with the same subject magnification (assuming the two cameras had the same exact noise and DR)...

is the amount of details on both images going to be the same ?



Apr 09, 2012 at 01:58 AM
eskimochaos
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


You don't but a 36mp camera for web images.


Apr 09, 2012 at 02:07 AM
cputeq
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


Just do the test for yourself using your own camera, assuming you have a zoom, that is, if I'm reading your hypothetical setup correctly (you're wanting to crop the 16 Mpix image to the same point of view as the 8MP camera?)




Apr 09, 2012 at 02:15 AM
chez
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


eskimochaos wrote:
You don't but a 36mp camera for web images.


Bingo....



Apr 09, 2012 at 02:26 AM
pompo
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


eskimochaos wrote:
You don't but a 36mp camera for web images.



I know that....of course for print work if you print an image @ 300 dpi it will be always better than one printed @ 150



Apr 09, 2012 at 02:34 AM
Bones74
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


A friend of mine shot a wedding on Saturday; the first with his new D4 and D800 (replacing D3 and D700). He said the D4 was amazing, the D800 produced the worst moire on clothing he's ever seen. It's multi coloured, never mind just patterns. I dont think that type of moire can be corrected. So it's IQ blows the 5D3 away does it? Dynamic range and mp arent everything to all photographers. I'll take a moirless 5Dmk3 thank youuuu


Apr 09, 2012 at 06:35 PM
deepbluejh
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


Bones74 wrote:
A friend of mine shot a wedding on Saturday; the first with his new D4 and D800 (replacing D3 and D700). He said the D4 was amazing, the D800 produced the worst moire on clothing he's ever seen. It's multi coloured, never mind just patterns. I dont think that type of moire can be corrected. So it's IQ blows the 5D3 away does it? Dynamic range and mp arent everything to all photographers. I'll take a moirless 5Dmk3 thank youuuu


Was this the regular D800 or the D800E?



Apr 09, 2012 at 06:38 PM
Chris Beaumont
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


deepbluejh wrote:
Was this the regular D800 or the D800E?


Exactly, I'd expect more pixels to result in less moire not more.



Apr 09, 2012 at 06:41 PM
deepbluejh
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


Also, what many people fail to realize is that while a D800 will ALWAYS give you more pixels and a bigger file, without an optimal lens, you really won't get any more detail. If you aren't shooting with a VERY sharp lens AND stopping down, you're getting nothing out of a D800 you couldn't have gotten with A 5DIII. Even under optimal conditions, the difference is relatively minor.


Apr 09, 2012 at 06:41 PM
chez
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


deepbluejh wrote:
Also, what many people fail to realize is that while a D800 will ALWAYS give you more pixels and a bigger file, without an optimal lens, you really won't get any more detail. If you aren't shooting with a VERY sharp lens AND stopping down, you're getting nothing out of a D800 you couldn't have gotten with A 5DIII. Even under optimal conditions, the difference is relatively minor.


Some of the images I saw were quite remarkable as far as the detail being pulled from the D800. Yes, you might need a good lens...but what is wrong with that? I'd rather have the choice of getting a great lens and achieving more details than not even having that option...no?



Apr 09, 2012 at 06:43 PM
 

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AGeoJO
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


The D800E is not readily available yet for another month or so. So, it must be a regular D800 but that one has an AA filter and it shouldn't produce colored moire.... Maybe it was a D800E, one of the first few out there.


Apr 09, 2012 at 06:45 PM
davenfl
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


There would be no reason why a D800 would have moire, that doesn't make any sense. I have both the D800 and 5D3 and that statement is just plain silly.

Dave



Apr 09, 2012 at 06:47 PM
Bones74
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


deepbluejh wrote:
Was this the regular D800 or the D800E?


Regular D800. Under the same lighting conditions with the same subjects the D4 files produced no dicernable moire. I'd like to be able to show the examples he sent me, but as they arent mine and he asked me not to share them, I cant. Needless to say he's a bit disillusioned with his D800 now. Thankfully for wedding album size the moire is not very apparent. His first comment to me was "If the D800 is this bad, I'd hate to see the D800E".



Apr 09, 2012 at 06:50 PM
dmward
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


If the D800 is showing moire did he get the version that does not have an anti-aliasing filter?
That camera by definition with have more moire but they claim to have a corrective algorithm in the RAW converter.
It sounds like Lightroom has also addressed the issue, although Adobe was motivated by digital medium format.



Apr 09, 2012 at 06:56 PM
Bones74
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


davenfl wrote:
There would be no reason why a D800 would have moire, that doesn't make any sense. I have both the D800 and 5D3 and that statement is just plain silly.

Dave


It's not plain silly, I've seen the samples The D800 obviously has a weak AA filter. Being that you have both D800 and 5D3, it would be interesting if you could test your cameras to see if the D800 produces more moire than the 5D3 under the exact same conditions (clothing, repeating patterns etc).



Apr 09, 2012 at 06:57 PM
Bones74
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


AGeoJO wrote:
The D800E is not readily available yet for another month or so. So, it must be a regular D800 but that one has an AA filter and it shouldn't produce colored moire.... Maybe it was a D800E, one of the first few out there.


Definitely a standard D800 I'm pretty sure no one in the UK has a D800E yet. Just looking at the sample crops he sent me and there are repeating bands of blue and yellow moire on the subjects jacket lapel. In a different crop (jacket sleeve) it looks very much like a rainbow with reds, blues, yellows and purples. I'm not sure this can be corrected in PP? I'm not a "moire expert" so I dont know if it was caused by the lighting, angles etc..



Apr 09, 2012 at 07:06 PM
AGeoJO
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


Bones74 wrote:
Definitely a standard D800 I'm pretty sure no one in the UK has a D800E yet. Just looking at the sample crops he sent me and there are repeating bands of blue and yellow moire on the subjects jacket lapel. In a different crop (jacket sleeve) it looks very much like a rainbow with reds, blues, yellows and purples. I'm not sure this can be corrected in PP? I'm not a "moire expert" so I dont know if it was caused by the lighting, angles etc..


Wow, OK. The D800 is not a good wedding photographer camera anyway. The RAW files from that camera are definitely more cumbersome to handle than those coming from the D4. The low lighting capability and AF of the D4 would make that camera more suitable than the D800 for wedding photographers shooting a Nikon system. Granted the D800 with its 36MP is more intriguing to shoot with but sooner or later the Nikon shooting wedding photographers will realize that that novelty will wear out pretty fast. If I were a wedding photographer using Nikon system and I could not afford to get a D4 as my main camera, I would get a D3s, plain and simple.



Apr 09, 2012 at 07:22 PM
artd
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


deepbluejh wrote:
Also, what many people fail to realize is that while a D800 will ALWAYS give you more pixels and a bigger file, without an optimal lens, you really won't get any more detail. If you aren't shooting with a VERY sharp lens AND stopping down, you're getting nothing out of a D800 you couldn't have gotten with A 5DIII. Even under optimal conditions, the difference is relatively minor.

Well, you do get to spend $500 less But perhaps not having to worry about using better lenses to get more detail is now a 'feature' we should expect to pay more for?

Still, my contention would be if you are not concerned about using good lenses, you probably should not be spending more than $3k on a high end camera in the first place whether that's a D800 or a 5DIII. Most people who spend this much on a camera body are (at least in theory) serious about their photography and so are not likely to be using cheap lenses in the first place. These are not entry level cameras and I don't expect a lot of people will be using entry level lenses with them.



Apr 09, 2012 at 07:31 PM
Dave_EP
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


AGeoJO wrote:
Wow, OK. The D800 is not a good wedding photographer camera anyway. The RAW files from that camera are definitely more cumbersome to handle than those coming from the D4. The low lighting capability and AF of the D4 would make that camera more suitable than the D800 for wedding photographers shooting a Nikon system.


So, I agree that the D4 and D3s are probably better for general purpose wedding photography, especially when lighting is low, but there's nothing wrong with the D800 for large group shots designed to be put across a large double page spread

AGeoJO wrote:
Granted the D800 with its 36MP is more intriguing to shoot with but sooner or later the Nikon shooting wedding photographers will realize that that novelty will wear out pretty fast. If I were a wedding photographer using Nikon system and I could not afford to get a D4 as my main camera, I would get a D3s, plain and simple.


We'll see. I don't plan on shooting it all the time, but for some shots it's going to be the right tool for the job.

Now, on to the moire. I've shot the same scenes with the 5D2 and D800. Yes, the D800 can show moire in scenes that the 5D2 doesn't, but guess what..... the 5D2 can show it in other scenes that the D800 resolves perfectly well.

The problem is not how much resolution there is or isn't. The problem is the frequency of the subject and how it meets the frequency of the sensor. That frequency will be different for each camera and both cameras will suffer from it once that frequency is present.

In terms of D800 for web shots only - that's just crazy.



Apr 09, 2012 at 07:36 PM
Bones74
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · all this talking about D800 detalis details and more px details!


AGeoJO wrote:
Wow, OK. The D800 is not a good wedding photographer camera anyway. The RAW files from that camera are definitely more cumbersome to handle than those coming from the D4. The low lighting capability and AF of the D4 would make that camera more suitable than the D800 for wedding photographers shooting a Nikon system. Granted the D800 with its 36MP is more intriguing to shoot with but sooner or later the Nikon shooting wedding photographers will realize that that novelty will wear out pretty fast. If I were a wedding photographer using Nikon system and I could not afford
...Show more

I think he was very much taken in by the novelty of using his D800 after having two 12mp bodies previously. The primary use for a D800 at weddings is probably for the group shots (as Dave says above ), but IF it produces excessive moire on clothing repeatedly, it kind of defeats the purpose. He is using some of Nikon's better lenses in the 24-70 f/2.8 and the 70-200 f/2.8 VR2 (500 f/4 VR for nature). I think from now he'll use the D4 for 90% of his wedding images. Maybe the next wedding, the D800 peforms flawlessly with different light subjects angles etc... Hope so anyway, otherwise there will be more tears

Absolutely loved your Renaissance Faire images BTW. cant wait to receive my 5Dmk3 now!




Apr 09, 2012 at 07:44 PM
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