p.1 #1 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
To the point, I'm considering the 70-200/2.8 VRII for use on a full frame body. I'm going from Canon to Nikon, at least in part, maybe in full.
When shooting portraits, which I do, I like the 200mm focal length, and do get in close for some shots - but - this 70-200 VRII has, in my mind, an unbelievable flaw left in it's design? Focus breathing at 200m to the point where at minimum focus the 200mm focal length renders as 135mm? Not impressed by Nikon on letting that lens out the door like that, but my question is below as that's a new hurdle I've never had to deal with on the Canon side.
If I'm shooting at say 190mm, and focus at minimum focus distance...do I still get focus breathing? Does it happen a little bit at all focal lengths in others words, but just to varying degrees? Or does it only happen only at exactly 200mm?
Important info for me personally, so all help is appreciated, and thanks for the info.
I'm liking the 70-200 VRII for how well it seems to perform (online reviews) with a TC2XIII or whatever it's called, but the focus breathing and price really make me cringe.
p.1 #2 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
200's more like 165 BUT 70mm on FX is pretty damn close @72. The original is ~78mm and that more than
makes up the "breathing" on the long end for me. The VR II is sharper in the corners, no vignette to speak of
and plays very well with ALL the Nikon TC's. FWIW: you have SOME huevos...as as Nikon noob, coming on here
and pronouncing "an unbelievable design flaw" before you've even had one in YOUR hands. Priceless!
I've made a living the last 2 years with the VR II and 2 years prior with the VR. Any flaws would most likely be
be attributed to the guy behind the camera. Just sayin'....
p.1 #4 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
LocoPhoto wrote:
If I'm shooting at say 190mm, and focus at minimum focus distance...do I still get focus breathing? Does it happen a little bit at all focal lengths in others words, but just to varying degrees? Or does it only happen only at exactly 200mm?
It doesn't happen only at the nominal 200 mm, but it does get worse at longer focal lengths.
Pierre Toscani has an impressive presentation on how these lenses work here. (The translation from French isn't brilliant, but it's understandable.) In particular, look at the red line ("Focal Length") of the chart in Fig. 17, while mousing over that diagram.
Toscani charts the entire development of Nikon's fast tele-zoom lenses on that page, and explains the benefits of Nikon's latest design in addition to its drawbacks.
p.1 #5 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
Reviews are bullsh*t, these are tools...take the time to learn 'em and shoot real world images.
I've never NOT sold a print/file due to "focus breathing" Time to have Fred rename this the Nikkor Whine Forum
...if ya can't take a step, perhaps another line of work is in order. Freakin' cry babies of late.
Besides, if you're SO "hot" then the 200 f2 gets ya obscene 200mm IQ and a stop faster. Oh, wait....
it's too HEAVY
p.1 #6 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
trenchmonkey wrote:
Reviews are bullsh*t, these are tools...take the time to learn 'em and shoot real world images.
I've never NOT sold a print/file due to "focus breathing" Time to have Fred rename this the Nikkor Whine Forum
...if ya can't take a step, perhaps another line of work is in order. Freakin' cry babies of late.
Actually, you are the only one whining in this post. Relax Monkey
It is a design flaw to have that much focus breathing. It does not mean the lens does not have many other nice attributes, but that is a design flaw (or at least a real design compromise). Also, just because a person is new to Nikon does not mean they are new to photography. So -- if you can't just answer his question without being nasty, just don't answer his question. I think you have enough posts already to last a lifetime. Just saying...
p.1 #9 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
OK, that made no sense. But you did get another post (YEAH).
Also - please don't send me any more crude PMs. You are old enough to know how to behave better than that. Perhaps you should go over to dpreview. You would fit right in.
If you don't like my posts, feel free to hide me. I just hid you Monkey.
p.1 #10 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
LocoPhoto wrote:
Focus breathing at 200m to the point where at minimum focus the 200mm focal length renders as 135mm? Not impressed by Nikon on letting that lens out the door like that, but my question is below as that's a new hurdle I've never had to deal with on the Canon side.
You do realize that the canon variant has some focus breathing as well right?
p.1 #12 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
Jan Brittenson wrote:
Errr, FOCUS BREATHING is a FEATURE. It maintains angle of view, and hence perspective, as you change focusing distance. It's DESIRABLE.
focus breathing means that the angle of view changes with focus. Video guys hate it, but it does not bother me as a still photographer. It is certainly not a feature.
General rule of thumb is that IF lenses "shorten" and external focus lenses "lengthen" (as you approach MFD)
p.1 #13 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
trenchmonkey wrote:
KMA, Jerri
Sorry but at the risk of getting a KMA, sent my way too, I'm gonna have to side with Ol Jerry boy here, Girlfriend..
You pretty much always say that anyone's complaints with gear are unjustified, followed by a bif shot. Not everyone shoots what you do or cares for your witty abbreviations.
As for everyone else, take the monkey with a pinch of salt.
Personally, I find it a tad annoying, i.e when I want a tight headshot, I often end up using DX crop factor on my D700. I wouldn't say though that it's a deal breaker. I certainly wouldn't sell this lens to get the VR1.
Ok, so we know that MFD or 1,4metres, you get 135mm. In the shot above I was probably two to three metres away. at 200mm, (according to thom hogans review at this distance, that's around 146-164mm). I can't complain about the shot, but you get the idea.
*edit* just noticed someone already mentioned thom hogans review doh.
p.1 #14 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
If anybody cares to read the excellent article by Pierre Toscani (posted by S Dilworth above), it explains that the focus breathing was a deliberate choice by Nikon to achieve even faster focusing of the VRII compared to the VRI, due to the lower mass of the focus group. They must have made this decision based on that they think is more important to most users, and I think they were right. I never noticed the breathing until it was written about on the internet, but I did notice and appreciate the faster focus speed. You can always crop an image a bit if the lens wasn't long enough, but how do you deblur an image that was not in focus if your subject moved too fast.
p.1 #15 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
First, thanks to all for their posts and efforts, including the quirks that come with those posts? However...
Trench...respectfully...I am going to ask you to ignore my posts from here on out. Will save you time and frustration since you choose to be offended at opinions. And very nice image of the flying geese, you have some talent that's been given to you and I'm glad you're enjoying what none of us can take credit for, and that is natural talent. I hope you don't give yourself all the credit for your ability, as that would make little sense. Noone can give an ability to oneself when it comes to natural talents. I don't have a singing voice, never will, so any singer should be humble in gratitude for having a gift in one area, where others have gifts of equal value in other areas, but with all of us different yet with the same needs for respect and love. And of the above...love and respect trump talent every time.
To the rest, I'll take a good read tonight and look more into your help to me, but the review I read spoke of 200mm becoming 135mm, which to me is like saying a car has a top speed of 140mph...except really you'll be doing barely over a 100mph.
I love 200mm for the compression effect, which 135mm just doesn't give to an equal degree, so it's an important matter for me. The new Tokina 70-200/4 stabilized has my eye as well because of this issue, and the weight, and the price...so I'm really hoping that lens is all I hope it to be when it's released in one of these upcoming months.
p.1 #16 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
Thanks gang...just read through all the posts....
I've had the 80-200/2.8L and 70-200/2.8 IS and 70-200/4 L and 70-200/4L IS and don't remember ever seeing focus breathing, but that's not a challenge against the claim that there is focus breathing on the Canon side...I just don't remember ever seeing it...and certainly not to where 200mm became 135mm, and of course I haven't seen the Nikon in person yet to verify or observe the event of the effect. Does bug me though and it certainly is not a feature. Not even a nice try there my friend Truth is truth and even lens designers don't call it a feature but an effect of the compromises you have to make in designing a lens (not that I'm an expert by any means).
Thanks again everyone, appreciate the help, I'm convinced I'll love the Nikon tools, and the image quality of the D800 especially, just having a bit of trouble changing lanes lens wise. The lack of certain equivalents do make for a couple of somewhat jarring bumps along the transition as the Nikon to Canon lane change happens.
Such a good time to be alive...very grateful...to have these kinds of tools available when so many others of earlier times and equal talent or greater, or just desire, didn't have the benefit of current technologies to pursue their interests. That stops me from complaining too much, but doesn't stop me from being rightfully frustrated with compromises from any company when top dollar is charged and money is considered king rather than excellence and morality.
p.1 #17 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
i just switched to nikon and after a few months i'm seriously considering switching back. i've used both lenses a lot. the focus breathing is annoying. more annoying still with this lens is the crappy lens hood and less flare resistance vs the canon.
p.1 #18 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
Locophoto, the "focus breathing" is a feature! The Nikon 70-200 VR II has a rear floating focusing design, which improves image quality at close to MFD.
The Canon 70-200mm f4 IS and 70-200mm f2.8 II lens do not have the floating focusing system and are pretty bad when used close to MFD. Great lenses otherwise.
I'm a Canon shooter and I'm somewhat familiar with it. Compare the 85mm 1.2 L and the 50mm 1.2 L. Folks say the 85 is sharp and the 50 has a "glow." And they are correct. The 50mm doesn't have a floating focusing system (for whatever reason) and is very soft at MFD. The 85L does.
I have the Canon 70-300L and it has the rear focusing system. It is amazingly sharp at MFD, and exhibits "focus breathing."
If the Canon 70-200 2.8 II had the same focusing system as the 70-300L, I would be very happy.
p.1 #20 · More info needed on focus breathing of 70-200 VRII pleae
Yes, the latest Nikon breathes much more at long focal lengths than previous tele-zoom Nikkors or the Canon equivalents. But it's unfair to call that a design flaw or imply that it was the result of simple cost-cutting. Instead, it's an attempt by Nikon to improve image quality across the focusing range, reduce vignetting, improve focusing speed and accuracy (especially during tracking), and improve focus motor reliability (previously a problem in some of these lenses).
It's a compromise, certainly, but so is every lens. Clever compromising is what engineers are paid to do!
I see much more to complain about in the D800, by the way, though I'm sure Nikon would defend its compromises in that product too!
Priceless! 
Not even a nice try there my friend