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Archive 2012 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

kevinsullivan
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

While the 5D III seems to "crush" the D800 for noise at higher ISOs, I read that the D800 greatly outshines the 5D III in pattern noise at low ISO's. I've seen the technical tests with lens caps on, and that sort of thing, but what I'm hoping to see are examples of the problem from real shooting situations, particularly those where the shot exposure might have been just a little off, or where the dynamic range really required stretching darks up by realistic amounts. In other words, with examples, how serious a problem is low-ISO pattern/other noise in real practical settings? Under what assumptions about style of shooting would this factor justify one's switching from Canon to Nikon (if any)?

Apr 06, 2012 at 08:41 AM

arbitrage
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

As you can see not much problems pushing almost 3 stops on the lighter areas but the dark trees show some patterns and color noise. In the first set I'd upped the color NR but the second set I didn't just left it on default. The exposure was adjustments were done in both cases by hitting the AUTO Tone button.

Apr 06, 2012 at 09:09 AM

dfresh
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

kevinsullivan wrote:
I'm hoping to see are examples of the problem from real shooting situations, particularly those where the shot exposure might have been just a little off, or where the dynamic range really required stretching darks up by realistic amounts.

I'm still waiting to see the same sorts of samples from the 5DII

I have a feeling this thread will derail into arguments within the next 5 responses...

Apr 06, 2012 at 09:32 AM

arbitrage
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

I'm heading out ice fishing in a few hours and will have both 5D2 and 3 along so will shoot some poorly exposed examples and then post them when I get home. We shall see what the real differences are if any.

Apr 06, 2012 at 09:53 AM

DmitriM
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

The question is , why would you want to push an image 3 stops?
In case you didn't know, your camera has an LCD screen where you can preview your images and reshoot if an image is too dark. Since I've discovered this thing called LCD screen, I've never seen low or high ISO banding

Apr 06, 2012 at 11:03 AM

arbitrage
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

DmitriM wrote:
The question is , why would you want to push an image 3 stops?
In case you didn't know, your camera has an LCD screen where you can preview your images and reshoot if an image is too dark. Since I've discovered this thing called LCD screen, I've never seen low or high ISO banding

I agree those couple of pics were my only screw-ups because I don't know what I was fiddling around with but normally I have no need to push more than 1 stop when I'm shooting properly.

Apr 06, 2012 at 11:30 AM

mttran
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

The real question is why canon tool has this 2003 DR constraint

Edited on Apr 06, 2012 at 11:44 AM · View previous versions

Apr 06, 2012 at 11:40 AM

joeisayo
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

Why do you have to say things that make sense?

Apr 06, 2012 at 11:43 AM

mttran
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

This is much better sense if canon was not behind.

snapsy wrote:
Hand-held image #8, 12MP
Hand-held image #8 before PP/push

Apr 06, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Bruce Sawle
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

kevinsullivan wrote:
While the 5D III seems to "crush" the D800 for noise at higher ISOs, I read that the D800 greatly outshines the 5D III in pattern noise at low ISO's. I've seen the technical tests with lens caps on, and that sort of thing, but what I'm hoping to see are examples of the problem from real shooting situations, particularly those where the shot exposure might have been just a little off, or where the dynamic range really required stretching darks up by realistic amounts. In other words, with examples, how serious a problem is low-ISO pattern/other noise in real...Show more →

I think everyone on both canon and Nikon can agree that neither camera outshines each other at high ISO. You must be looking at .jpg. The Raw files are dead even with the slightly better ISO going to Canon above 6400 and slightly more detail for nikon. So the word crush is not accurate unless you like shooting smoothed over .jpg with little or no detail. On to banding in real world unless you completely blow the exposure and then try and resurrect it the canon should not give you any problems.

Apr 06, 2012 at 12:12 PM

form
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

dfresh wrote:
I'm still waiting to see the same sorts of samples from the 5DII

I have a feeling this thread will derail into arguments within the next 5 responses...

Here are my 5D1 and 5D2...

5D1:
http://www.joeyallenphoto.com/5D2Noise/5D1Noise.jpg

5D2:
http://www.joeyallenphoto.com/5D2Noise/5D2Noise.jpg

I will add that the 5D1 samples had red, green, magenta and purple saturation increase and orange and yellow decreases while the 5D2 colors started with 0 color modification whatsoever.

Apr 06, 2012 at 12:19 PM

form
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

joeisayo wrote:
Why do you have to say things that make sense?

If everything could be re-shot, then it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately nailing exposure between very different exposure levels in a back-and-forth manner within a few seconds because the bride is walking down a sunny ceremony aisle with extreme highlights on the faces while the groom's face is in deep shadow with a brighter background can't be handled perfectly by a human being OR any kind of automatic exposure system. So when things are happening that can't be repeated, and aperture priority wouldn't be able to get the exposures right...you get exposures either clipping highlights, making shadows too dark, some amount of both, etc...then you have to fix in post.

Lucky be those who control every aspect of the photography experience and who can simply reshoot EVERYTHING.

Apr 06, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Dawei Ye
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

+1 to what form says above

In an ideal world, we can all nail the exposure in camera. Unfortunately the world we live in has complications like:
- Dynamic Range limitations
- Time constraints
- Fast changing/moving subjects
- Photographer error, inexperience, forgetfulness, carelessness etc.

Apr 06, 2012 at 01:58 PM

DmitriM
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

form wrote:
If everything could be re-shot, then it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately nailing exposure between very different exposure levels in a back-and-forth manner within a few seconds because the bride is walking down a sunny ceremony aisle with extreme highlights on the faces while the groom's face is in deep shadow with a brighter background can't be handled perfectly by a human being OR any kind of automatic exposure system. So when things are happening that can't be repeated, and aperture priority wouldn't be able to get the exposures right...you get exposures either clipping highlights, making shadows too dark, some...Show more →

Form, I am a full time wedding photographer and been for many years. While what you said is somewhat true, I've never had to push an image more than 1.5 and I've shot in different conditions throughout the years. One thing you can do is shoot on manual and balance the exposure for fixing it later in PS. If I would have to push something 3+stops that in my mind a not a good picture in the first place and editing will hardly make it better.

Apr 06, 2012 at 02:13 PM

form
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

I always shoot manual, including when I took those photos that I used for samples. Under many circumstances, pushing 3 stops isn't necessary because the dynamic range of the scene is not so extreme. However, bright daylight ceremonies with intermittent shade are the exception, and IMO they happen much more often than I would prefer.

From that same wedding, there were certain shots of the bride waiting in such deep shade (1/200 ISO160 f/2.8) vs the wedding party walking along the extremely bright sunlit aisle (1/4000 ISO160 f/2.8)....which is roughly 4-1/3 stops difference if I did the math correctly...and some bride shots I could not salvage because I had only dropped 1-2 stops of exposure (via shutter speed) between shots. The best shots were the ones I had to throw away because they were the ones that happened first. Then came the adjustment and I had to settle for a less timely but closer-to-correctly-exposed shot.'

I actually could have salvaged the first shots if I was using a Nikon because of the type of noise (pattern vs organic) and less shadow noise overall.

Apr 06, 2012 at 02:28 PM

Daan B
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

It is not always a matter of incorrect exposure. It is a matter of exceeding the DR of the sensor. For example... if you shoot a low key portrait in the studio involving correctly exposed (not blowing out skin detail) punchy highlights and deep shadows, the banding will be revealed when opening up the shadows slightly (using fill light or levels/curves). At least, that is what always happens when I use my 5D2 for this. The 5D3 is somewhat better because it shows only banding on one axis, whereas the 5D2 shows a criss-cross pattern.

Apr 06, 2012 at 02:46 PM

fotosculptor
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

Another place where this gets you is when doing B&W tone mapping. So you want your reds to be your highlights, and your blues to be in your shadows? You can easily get into the multi-EV adjustments to get the L&F of the photo right. The shadows have the hardest time coping with this, and if you're not careful, you can turn them completely to mush.

Apr 06, 2012 at 02:50 PM

dfresh
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

form wrote:
I always shoot manual, including when I took those photos that I used for samples. Under many circumstances, pushing 3 stops isn't necessary because the dynamic range of the scene is not so extreme. However, bright daylight ceremonies with intermittent shade are the exception, and IMO they happen much more often than I would prefer.

From that same wedding, there were certain shots of the bride waiting in such deep shade (1/200 ISO160 f/2.8) vs the wedding party walking along the extremely bright sunlit aisle (1/4000 ISO160 f/2.8)....which is roughly 4-1/3 stops difference if I did the math correctly...and some bride...Show more →

Serious question, why would you shoot manual mode in these kind of circumstance with such dynamic lighting?

Apr 06, 2012 at 03:32 PM

Hrow
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

You don't have to blow the exposure to be able to appreciate the benefits of more DR as lots of images exceed the DR of the camera. Bright skies and heavy shadow areas are a simple, common example. Another is night photography. I have a friend who just switched from a 5DII to D800 who shots pretty much only at night (yes, I wonder about him too). He won't shut up about his new found ability to find detail in shadows rather than noise. I've seen a couple of shots and have to agree he may have a point. He is exposing for the highlights and pulling the shadow areas out of the muck without any issues and staying away from needing to do multiple exposures to get what he wants.

Apr 06, 2012 at 03:40 PM

Daan B
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Real-world pics of 5D III low-ISO banding?

I don't have the 5D3, but here is a 5D2 example of what I was talking about in my previous post:

5D2 ISO 100 low key shot exposed for the highlights. Notice how the shadows are clipping. This means the DR of the camera is exceeded.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7117/7051674023_4c90c01f41_b.jpg

After an exposure compensation of +0,40 and opening up the shadows by +20 fill light, I get this:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5321/7051674037_d3ecc6f88a_b.jpg

100% crop to show the banding:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7092/7051674047_1354330659_b.jpg

Notice how in this case some very slight adjustments in LR reveal the banding. Basically I can't do much in PP with the black background. The 5D3 files are somewhat better in that they have only one axis banding, but it will be there too.

Apr 06, 2012 at 03:44 PM

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