fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3              13       14       end
  

Archive 2012 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread

  
 
VladiD
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I figured instead of discussing what other outside sources have to say about the Fuji X-Pro 1, shall we focus on what this community has to say about the camera instead?

My first impressions after owning this camera for about a day now.

- The 35's aperture clicker-clacker is pretty annoying. The lens' metal aperture blades open/close regularly during metering, turning the silent camera into what sounds like a rattlesnake on acid. Edit: power save mode helps with the noise but slows AF to a crawl.

- The files look gorgeous, no matter what the ISO, the JPGs retain a lot of crispy detail.

- Exposure compensation dial in full manual mode with auto-ISO doesn't work. You can set 1/125th @ f/8 and Auto-ISO will compensate for proper exposure, but you can't dial in a bias that would affect the ISO. Not a biggie, I am sure firmware can patch that.

- Why did Fuji get rid of adjusting the Auto-ISO min shutter speed setting? From what I understand, it selects the ISO on a 1/FL basis. Sometimes I want faster that 1/52 of a second, especially after having one too many coffees. Jittery hands demand 1/80 or faster.

- I am positively surprised by how lightweight this camera is. I know it's not meant to be a direct competitor to the M9, but compared to a 35 Lux setup, this camera weighs what feels like half of the Leica while retaining a solid construction. Well done, Fuji.

- A big thumbs up for improving ergo on the buttons. The X100 was painful to operate for someone with hands larger than a 3 year-olds'. Now even my clumsy thick thumbs can swiftly navigate around.

- OVF framing is tricky because the framelines are not even close to what the sensor area captures. Try it for yourself and you'll realize that the actual capture area is significantly larger than what the framelines suggest you shoot. Fortunately you can switch to EVF on a whim for critical compositions.



Any ideas on a RAW-DNG converter? I am bummed that the Lightroom team has no ETA on when support for this soon-to-be-popular camera will come, so an alternative will have to do. I didn't bother to install the Fuji-provided software yet, so I can't comment on the quality of the conversions there.



Apr 06, 2012 at 08:23 AM
olelovold
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I have had my XP1 for over two weeks now. I've shot mostly street, but also a fashion editorial with it.

The files are gorgeous. Best I've ever seen from an APS-C, and certainly it's up there with 5DII and D700. It has unbelievably good detail. The colours are also swell. In low light it's fantastic too. The noise is very film grain-like, as opposed to i.e. the 5DII which has ugly colour blotches and banding covering the images at higher ISOs.

The lenses are great. I've the 18/2 and the 35/1.4, and I find both very impressive, considering their weight and size. Esp. the 35 is so very good, even wide open. Manually focusing them isn't a pleasure as it is with a Leica, but it still does the job, and the focusing rings are much better than on the X100.

The AF is good too. The problems people have with the AF seem to be mostly user error, and not knowing how to operate the camera properly. For example, people say in regards to focusing, "focus on an edge". Much like you would with an SLR. Well, that's wrong, because the CDAF in the digital Fujis doesn't work that way. In fact, if you point it at an edge, it's likely that the focus will struggle more. This is because the CDAF tries to make everything within the AF box sharp, and if you have several planes in different lengths from the camera within the box, the focus will struggle. The correct way to focus is not on an edge, but rather on contrasty areas on the subject. Yet, people who obviously don't know the camera spread misinformation about this all over various forums. It's not an obvious thing, but it only goes to show one important thing: the X-Pro 1 is not an SLR, and it therefore shouldn't be expect to work like one either.

Focusing mode should be Area, and power save mode should be OFF. Otherwise, the autofocus is positively retarded. I also prefer to have the focus switch on M and use the AE-L/AF-L button to focus.

Handling is great. It's just a pleasure to use, I think. The manual controls are so nice, and the grip is very nice too. I like the subtle rise on the front, and the thumb rest under the EV compensation dial at the back.

The weight is fantastic. I have to laugh when people complain that it's too light. If you want it to be heavier, tape some led to it or something, and let the rest of us who actually like not having to work out whilst photographing enjoy our lightweight setup. The camera with all three lenses weighs less than a kilogram - less than my D700 body alone was, while delivering output that comes very close.

Also, call me vain, but I like how it looks.



Apr 06, 2012 at 08:41 AM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I've had mine for about two weeks, too. So far, so good. The three lenses all produce fine IQ for my purposes, which is primarily intimate events. I hope to shoot some semi-candid portraits with manual focus Alt telephotos this weekend.


Apr 06, 2012 at 09:53 AM
theophilus
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I don't understand why the aperture needs to change when it is metering. Or why its metering without a half-press of the shutter?

Would turning off the live histogram make it stop?



Apr 06, 2012 at 10:07 AM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


theophilus wrote:
I don't understand why the aperture needs to change when it is metering. Or why its metering without a half-press of the shutter?

Would turning off the live histogram make it stop?


I'll know more when mine shows up but apparently they could have just used gain on the live image rather then having the aperture perfectly correct exposure on the fly for the live view. That would result in a poorer quality EVF/ LCD image in bad light but I suspect many might prefer that over the current situation. A firmware fix could adjust the bias either way I would think. Apparently, the Leica X1 did this at first and it was later fixed via firmware.

What I would try is to turn off the rear LCD and the histogram and only use the OVF. That might stop it?



Apr 06, 2012 at 10:20 AM
NikonDeb
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I have been looking at this camera and the Lumix Gx1x. Just curious why you all decided on this camera.
Have any of you shot at hi iso-1600 and above? Thoughts?



Apr 06, 2012 at 10:59 AM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


Well, my X-Pro 1, 35 1.4 lens and acc. grip arrived. I'll just add my 2 cents worth as I experience it. As to my biases, I'm not tied to keeping it (I have 30 days to decide), I owned and really loved shooting with the X100 (but I did suffer the SAB issue which made me suspect of Fuji quality) and I recently bought the NEX-7 but was not happy using the EVF at all. Oh yeah, I also owned a Texas Leica, many Fuji 4x5 lenses and my first serious digital camera was the Fuji S2 PRO.

First impressions:

1) The body feels really good in the hand - particularly with the overpriced acc. grip (well, I guess a Thumbs Up is about the same cost so the price for the thing is debatable. It does provide a really good one handed, secure grip). Everything is exactly where a photographer would expect it to be. A+ ergos from me.
2) The body feels much larger than the X100 and will not fit in the same, compact Crumpler 1 Million Dollar home I had purchased (I love how that reads ) for my X100.
3) The body with battery does not feel overly light or cheap as I had feared. It feels like the perfect weight to me and the build quality is fine with the body.
4) The OVF feels tight with less eye relief than the X100. The projected frames and info also seem lighter/ dimmer than the X100. The rear LCD screen is very good.
5) The lens feels cheap. It feels way too light and, in particular, the aperture click stops do not move with the same precision, smooth ball-bearing like way that they do on the X100. The detents are also too light so it does not take much to move them. The hood also feels very cheap. Like really light tin that would bend in the wind. The bends/ flat area on the end of this hood look cheaply pressed/ stamped with some irregularity in the pressing.
6) AF is slow in movement and sounds like what the first AF cameras sounded like in the late 80's/ early 90's. NO excuse for that in 2012 imo.
7) The clicking is real and sounds like a Geiger counter. It's really not that loud but it's the sort of unusual sound that would draw attention (Hey, what's that slight ticking. Is something about tho blow up!). I'm sure a user could get used to it but it should not be there. I found no setting to make it stop.

Now, to look at the images...



Apr 06, 2012 at 11:41 AM
rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


Re: the aperture clicking. I read somewhere that if you set it to movie mode it will force the aperture to stay constant. There was also something about using depth of field preview, though not sure if either of these options allow AF. I think what I read was related to forcing the aperture to remain at a set position, i.e. wide open, for proper, accurate manual focus. The problem with manual focus and the varying aperture is at a given moment it could be stopped down to f/4 or 5.6 in bright situations, making it nearly impossible for you to determine in magnified EVF mode where the exact plane of focus will be when shot at a wider aperture.


Apr 06, 2012 at 12:36 PM
FlyPenFly
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I would guess the aperture is clicking for probably a good reason we don't understand yet, not sure if it's a good idea we try to rid it.


Apr 06, 2012 at 12:51 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I'm just starting to look into this but the Silkypix raw converter, while a major pain to use, does seem to get a LOT more out of the raws than the Fuji jpegs. The jpegs, to me at least, seem to be a step down in quality as compared to the jpegs I'm used to seeing out of the X100. Perhaps this is due to the additional processing required for the special RGB color filter arrangement, I don't know, but the jpegs from the X-Pro1 do seem to have some weird artifacts in them and certainly don't hold the dynamic range/ color info which is contained in the raws. I'll post more later with examples but it's clear more third party raw support (ACR) is desperately needed.


Apr 06, 2012 at 01:26 PM
kosmoskatten
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


So, you took the bait huh Tariq?

Keep pouring out the information, I am still interested in finding out how good the X Pro 1 is as a stand alone system, i.e. with their own lenses. As an alt lens platform I think the last nail has been sunk into the coffin with linked findings like these:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/review/dressup/20120406_524161.html?ref=rss

The Contax G Biogon 21/.28 is a lens I know inside and out after having used it for many years with excellent results, always. On the X Pro 1 not only the corners are smeared, but the sides too, both wide open, stopped down and close and far = always. The center of the image looks fantastic but that does not help much.

I look forward to seeing what the Fujinon lenses are capable of. The sensors shows fantastic potential for an APS-C sensor.

Back to the X Pro 1:
Ron, by setting it to Movie mode to avoid iris/aperture clicking, can you really shoot normally in that mode?

Jim Colwell; have you tried out the 60 macro yet? I am curious to find out if you get the internal reflections that have been reported in tests. Shooting a macro of a coin head on seems to be able to provoke it.




Apr 06, 2012 at 01:47 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


kosmoskatten wrote:
So, you took the bait huh Tariq?

Keep pouring out the information, I am still interested in finding out how good the X Pro 1 is as a stand alone system, i.e. with their own lenses. As an alt lens platform I think the last nail has been sunk into the coffin with linked findings like these:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/review/dressup/20120406_524161.html?ref=rss

The Contax G Biogon 21/.28 is a lens I know inside and out after having used it for many years with excellent results, always. On the X Pro 1 not only the corners are smeared, but the sides too, both wide open,
...Show more

Yeah, I took the bait. One thing is for sure, the 35 1.4 optically is amazing.

I do have the Kipon M adapter and I'm waiting on NIkon F to M and a M42 to M adapter to show up so I will at least be able to see how some SLR lenses perform. I don't have any M lenses to try myself and I don't expect they would do so well anyway.



Apr 06, 2012 at 01:53 PM
millsart
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


kosmoskatten wrote:
The Contax G Biogon 21/.28 is a lens I know inside and out after having used it for many years with excellent results, always. On the X Pro 1 not only the corners are smeared, but the sides too, both wide open, stopped down and close and far = always. The center of the image looks fantastic but that does not help much.




Its a great lens, but shaved down on the NEX, which shares the APS-C sensor size it had the same smeared corners.

I think the XPro is going to have the same issues adapting non retrofocus lenses as any other mirrorless sadly.

Sadly Fuji doesn't have their 14mm prime or UWA zoom listed til 2013 so it could be a while to wait for Xpro users to have a good wide angle solution



Apr 06, 2012 at 01:54 PM
kosmoskatten
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


Ok, Tariq, let's hope the X Pro1 will suit you well.

I think it might be a solid performer with SLR optics, albeit at an unwanted weight penalty.

I think it is a bit sad that the X Pro1 is an APS-C camera with a large footprint (same size as full frame RF) and that alt users will have to stick even larger glass on it.

There is always hope that the excellent sensor Fuji has cooked up will reincarnate in a better solution - the X Pro 1 is just the beginning of new things to come from Fuji. I have been kicking the X Pro 1 for a while, but I think there is promise and that quirks and kinks are going to be ironed out.




Apr 06, 2012 at 02:12 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


Ok, here is some very preliminary image quality testing of raw vs jpeg. In camera jpeg was set to Astia/ Soft AND the profile to AdobeRGB. Fine Jpeg + Raw of course. I also set in camera noise reduction to -2, the lowest setting as I don't like noise reduction applied to jpegs but this could very well explain this result. It's also worth noting that in the X100, AdobeRGB is broken for in camera jpegs (results in odd colors) and I have not tested that yet on the X-Pro1 but these colors do look off for the jpeg. AWB was chosen by the way. I'll probably be away from the PC for a few hours so it may take awhile for a reply if you have a question.

So, first the full image out of Silkypix taken with the 35 1.4 wide open at 1.4 and below that are the 100% crops with the raw obviously on the left.
http://www.gibranstudio.com/hydrantF.jpg
http://www.gibranstudio.com/hydrant.jpg



Apr 06, 2012 at 02:19 PM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


kosmoskatten wrote:
Ok, Tariq, let's hope the X Pro1 will suit you well.

I think it might be a solid performer with SLR optics, albeit at an unwanted weight penalty.

I think it is a bit sad that the X Pro1 is an APS-C camera with a large footprint (same size as full frame RF) and that alt users will have to stick even larger glass on it.

There is always hope that the excellent sensor Fuji has cooked up will reincarnate in a better solution - the X Pro 1 is just the beginning of new things to come from Fuji.
...Show more

Didn't you say you will be using an X-Pro1 over the weekend? Curious to here what you think of it.



Apr 06, 2012 at 02:22 PM
rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


Interesting Tariq. I think you're the first one here on FM with the XP1 to state output from Silkypix can be better than the camera's JPEGs. And I agree, the crop on the left does have better fine detail on the hydrant. Whatever magic Fuji is applying to JPEGs in camera seems to increase the apparent depth of field of the image too... must be some additional sharpening and clarity-type contrast boosts, to my eye.

Henrik - I'm not sure. I think it will work. It reminds me of the issue with Canon cameras using live view. Here too, the aperture will stop down off the shooting aperture if the scene is very bright, so if accurate manual focusing is needed, one sets the live view mode to video, which locks the aperture at the user selected setting and allows accurate manual focusing at that aperture. Activating depth of field preview will do the same. So when I read someone suggesting these options with the XP1 it sounded logically similar to what I experienced with my live view and video capable Canon DSLR. I don't have an XP1, so I'm just throwing this out there for someone else to try and determine whether it's a realistic solution.



Apr 06, 2012 at 02:34 PM
itai195
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I've had mine for a day or so as well. So far I'm pleased. The image quality to my eyes is a cut above what I've seen from m43, particularly at higher ISO like 3200 and higher. So this is exactly what I was looking for in that regard. I was concerned about the body size and weight, but I actually find the size to be spot on. I've found every m43 body I've handled to be too small and cramped, leading to frequent accidental button and dial presses. In contrast, the X-Pro1 fits well in my hand and I have yet to inadvertently press any buttons. With the 35mm f/1.4 mounted, the combo has a very nice heft to it–not too heavy to be burdensome, and not so light that it feels like a toy. This camera isn't pocketable, but most m43 body/lens combinations aren't really pocketable either. I love having the OVF, that's a killer feature. Even if I don't use it all the time, having the option is really great.

There are a lot of quirks and bugs, particularly with the firmware, that I'd like to see ironed out. A non-exhaustive list off the top of my head:

1) The camera rotates shots taken in portrait orientation automatically, but the playback of rotated photos is implemented in an idiotic manner. As you zoom in, the image retains its rotated width, so only a tiny portion of the LCD is utilized.
2) The lack of a histogram in image review is annoying, but there is one in playback mode.
3) Auto ISO needs work: it should let you choose a minimum shutter speed, it should go up to ISO 6400, and it should be affected by exposure compensation in manual exposure mode.
4) The AF could be much faster, but it's actually decent for most of my style of work. I'd like to see an option to use the AFL button for back-button focus. You can approximate it in the current firmware, but it's not really the same.
5) With the 18mm lens, the bottom frame line is sometimes occluded by the distance meter, which triggers my OCD. I'd like to see an option to automatically hide the distance meter when that occurs, rather than having to resort to always having the meter off.
6) If you change the view mode to OVF only, then hitting the macro button doesn't automatically bring up the EVF as it does if the view mode is set to 'eye sensor.'
7) As mentioned in the LuLa review, I'd like the option of mapping the AF point selection function to the Fn button. I didn't think this would be a big deal, but it is kind of irritating.
8) If you focus and recompose, you can only take one shot. For the subsequent shot, the camera will relock focus, even if you hold the shutter button down halfway. Without a decent back-button focus option, this definitely needs to be fixed.

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention this, but I think the Q menu is implemented very nicely. I like it better than the comparable implementation on my G3, because all of the items are visible in one screen. Fuji did a pretty good job of selecting which items should appear in that menu, but there are some oddities. For example, AE bracketing only appears in the Drive menu, but self-timer only appears in the Q menu. In my mind, these are both 'Drive' options, so they should both be in that menu.

Edited on Apr 06, 2012 at 02:46 PM · View previous versions



Apr 06, 2012 at 02:37 PM
kosmoskatten
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


I didn't get to snatch it for this long weekend, truth be told I've been exhausted from work, so I am saving up my tryout to a more suitable weekend. Also, I need to give the vendor a little bit of notice before picking one up. One of the reasons I am holding it off a bit is that I might to get to have one long term, like two three months, so I am waiting for the demo unit to get a little scuffed.

If the X Pro 1 is as good as it seems as a stand alone system I could be perfectly happy with it my only camera, it's just that I don't do as much photography as I used to, so I can't really justify the price tag of the X Pro 1 with the three lenses, which are all to my taste. If they add an even wider lens I know I'd have to snatch that too.

I am tired trying out "promising" new stuff and I am happy with the GXR but I look forward to trying out the X Pro 1 for sure, and I will post my findings with non less emphasis on the merits than on the quirks.




Apr 06, 2012 at 02:38 PM
kosmoskatten
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · The FM X-Pro 1 Thread


itai195: thank you, very informative.






Apr 06, 2012 at 02:41 PM
       2       3              13       14       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3              13       14       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account