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Archive 2012 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800
  
 
cameron12x
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


ISO 6400 is available on the 60D and ISO 12800 is available as an enhanced ISO.

Questions:

How usable is ISO 6400? How much noise is present and, after reducing noise in post, what size prints can be made (e.g. 12 x 18")?

Ditto for ISO 12800.

Thanks!



Apr 03, 2012 at 03:43 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


all the 18mp sensors are pretty good. as long as you expose well . I find LR3 does a very good job (I have a 7D).
OK the results wont be in FF territory like the 5D3/5D2 but they are usable.

12800 is pushing things a bit far but is still OK if thats all you could use (Id rather have a noisy image than no image at all).

and printed in general doesnt show the noise as much as on screen



Apr 03, 2012 at 04:17 PM
cameron12x
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
all the 18mp sensors are pretty good. as long as you expose well . I find LR3 does a very good job (I have a 7D).
OK the results wont be in FF territory like the 5D3/5D2 but they are usable.

12800 is pushing things a bit far but is still OK if thats all you could use (Id rather have a noisy image than no image at all).

and printed in general doesnt show the noise as much as on screen


Thanks Ian... I suppose I'm mostly interested in results at ISO 6400.

Does anyone have any 100% crop examples to share?



Apr 03, 2012 at 04:33 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


It all depends on who is judging what is usable, and what is not.


Apr 03, 2012 at 04:34 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


I use 6400 on 7d all of the time.


Apr 03, 2012 at 04:36 PM
cameron12x
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


I'm certainly in agreement about the subjective nature of what is "usable" or not.

Does anyone have any 100% crop examples to share?

How large has anyone printed at ISO 6400?



Apr 03, 2012 at 04:41 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


cameron12x wrote:
Does anyone have any 100% crop examples to share?



see this is where people fall down and start accusing the 18mp crops sensor of being too noisy.
what are you going to judge a 100% crop against? you need to bear in mind it WILL look noisy.
but you also have to remember that your looking at a much smaller part of a total image than any other canon sensor .



Apr 03, 2012 at 05:21 PM
cameron12x
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
see this is where people fall down and start accusing the 18mp crops sensor of being too noisy.
what are you going to judge a 100% crop against? you need to bear in mind it WILL look noisy.
but you also have to remember that your looking at a much smaller part of a total image than any other canon sensor .

I totally agree, Ian... I should have placed some context around this question.

Part of what I'll be using the 60D (or 60Da) for is astrophotography. I may need to crop heavily in order to show distant galaxies and nebulae.

In addition, I'll need to find a "sweet spot" for both ISO and exposure relative to the accuracy of the polar alignment and tracking that I'll be able to get from my CG-5 equatorial tracking mount/tripod.

That being said, I'm still interested in seeing "Earthly" examples of 100% image crops shot at ISO 6400. There are likely some events on "Terra firma" that I'll also need this ISO for. Bring 'em on!



Apr 03, 2012 at 05:46 PM
 

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Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


yeah I saw the other thread on the Da .
Now I know absolutly zip about astro so maybe my next comment will be completly wrong .
if you have a tracking mount can you not just use a longer expossure at a much lower iso ? or are you needing the high iso's and still need long expossures?

if the latter is the case it wouldnt surprise me if the 60Da is more re engineered than just changing the filters on the sensor.



Apr 03, 2012 at 05:52 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


20x30


Apr 03, 2012 at 06:00 PM
curious80
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


Good part is that you are not dealing with artificial indoor lights because thats typically where the noise artifacts come up in the worst ways. In my (fairly limited) experience the high-iso noise in astro shots is typically of the less objectionable / well behaved type. However, if you need heavy cropping then I am not too sure. Shots at iso 6400 / 12800 are good enough to look fine when displayed at screen size but if you want to crop a lot then I think noise will be too much.


Apr 03, 2012 at 06:10 PM
cameron12x
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


The most concern that I have about noise is the "pattern" variety, which is almost impossible to remove in post. Is there much (if any) pattern noise at ISO 6400/12800 with this sensor?

Robert--I take it that you've made decent 20x30" prints from ISO 6400 images?

Ian--for deep sky objects you need: fast glass and long exposures (sometimes hours). The chosen ISO will depend on the "sweet spot" I mentioned earlier. By that I mean where you get the maximum signal-to-noise ratio and still capture enough light to actually discern the object.



Apr 03, 2012 at 06:58 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
...Now I know absolutly zip about astro so maybe my next comment will be completly wrong... ...if you have a tracking mount can you not just use a longer expossure at a much lower iso ? or are you needing the high iso's and still need long expossures?


cameron12x wrote:
The most concern that I have about noise is the "pattern" variety, which is almost impossible to remove in post. ...Ian--for deep sky objects you need: fast glass and long exposures (sometimes hours). The chosen ISO will depend on the "sweet spot" I mentioned earlier. By that I mean where you get the maximum signal-to-noise ratio and still capture enough light to actually discern the object.


The best way to minimize noise in these shots is to use multiple shorter exposures that equal one longer exposure, and then combine the images via "stacking." Since noise is random but image objects are fixed, the object pixels will multiply more times than the noise pixels will.



Apr 03, 2012 at 07:32 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


FYI:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=933773

http://www.centralds.net/en/astro60d.htm

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/dslr/EOS300Dastro.html

http://www.astropix.com/HTML/I_ASTROP/NIK_CAN.HTM

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/canon_eos_60d_review/

http://edenbrackstone.com/tag/canon-60d/

http://www.stark-labs.com/



Apr 03, 2012 at 07:43 PM
cameron12x
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


BrianO wrote:
The best way to minimize noise in these shots is to use multiple shorter exposures that equal one longer exposure, and then combine the images via "stacking." Since noise is random but image objects are fixed, the object pixels will multiply more times than the noise pixels will.


Brian--you're absolutely right. "Stacking" often times consists of hundreds of images (or frames, in the case of webcams used for afocal astrophotography). I should have clarified before by stating that the long exposures were actually "cumulative" exposures, where you build up "signal" and algorithmically remove the random noise in post.

That being said, there still are "sweet spots," where the best ISO chosen may not be the maximum ISO of the body. And some of that is dependent on the viewing location, as background light pollution will vary from site to site.

For anyone who has tried their hand at astrophotography, you know how frustrating it can be. Mother nature (viewing) trumps everything. It doesn't matter if you have the fastest and sharpest glass, terapixels of resolution, the fastest image processor, or the most stable and accurate tracking mount. If you don't have clear and dark skies, you won't easily get the final image that you want. It's a very time-consuming craft!



Apr 03, 2012 at 08:31 PM
CW100
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 60D @ ISO 6400 and 12800


Imagemaster wrote:
FYI:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=933773

http://www.centralds.net/en/astro60d.htm

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/dslr/EOS300Dastro.html

http://www.astropix.com/HTML/I_ASTROP/NIK_CAN.HTM

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/canon_eos_60d_review/

http://edenbrackstone.com/tag/canon-60d/

http://www.stark-labs.com/



lots of examples but astrophotography is specialized - do a search for the best techniques




Apr 04, 2012 at 11:20 AM





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