Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
  

Archive 2012 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight

  
 
_SBS_
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


Seems to be a BIFs With Sticks theme going on. Nice shots AJay.


Mar 26, 2012 at 09:48 PM
AJay
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


One more thing... I also tried a second 1.4x (non-reporting, Tamron) TC while I was testing Birds-In-Flight autofocus and the acquisition of focus was slightly slower, but it still locked on and worked okay. As I mentioned in another thread, IS seemed to cause occasional jittering of the autofocus with the second 1.4x TC, but by turning off IS, it did quite well autofocusing with the center autofocus point.

I have never had any consistent luck tricking a Canon (non-f/8 autofocusing) DSLR by either taping pins or using a non-reporting TC until now. It works with the 5DM3.

Alan


Edited on Mar 26, 2012 at 10:03 PM · View previous versions



Mar 26, 2012 at 10:00 PM
AJay
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


_SBS_ wrote:
Seems to be a BIFs With Sticks theme going on. Nice shots AJay.


Thanks. Images were taken at a rookery...lot's of nests being built.

Alan



Mar 26, 2012 at 10:02 PM
arbitrage
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


AJay wrote:
One more thing... I also tried a second 1.4x (non-reporting, Tamron) TC while I was testing Birds-In-Flight autofocus and the acquisition of focus was slightly slower, but it still locked on and worked okay. As I mentioned in another thread, IS seemed to cause occasional jittering of the autofocus with the second 1.4x TC, but by turning off IS, it did quite well autofocusing with the center autofocus point.

I have never had any consistent luck tricking a Canon (non-f/8) DSLR by either taping pins or using a non-reporting TC until now. It works with the 5DM3.

Alan


That gives some hope to the rumours that Canon may allow the 1DX (and maybe 5D3) to AF at f/8 via a software update. Maybe they could make it a CF that you would turn on knowing that the outcome may not be ideal.



Mar 26, 2012 at 10:04 PM
Pixel Perfect
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


AJay wrote:
One more thing... I also tried a second 1.4x (non-reporting, Tamron) TC while I was testing Birds-In-Flight autofocus and the acquisition of focus was slightly slower, but it still locked on and worked okay. As I mentioned in another thread, IS seemed to cause occasional jittering of the autofocus with the second 1.4x TC, but by turning off IS, it did quite well autofocusing with the center autofocus point.

I have never had any consistent luck tricking a Canon (non-f/8 autofocusing) DSLR by either taping pins or using a non-reporting TC until now. It works with the 5DM3.

Alan


That trick allows f/11 AF on a 1 series! Tried it on the 400 f/5.6 one day. It was reasonably decent in good light.



Mar 26, 2012 at 10:21 PM
AJay
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight



That gives some hope to the rumours that Canon may allow the 1DX (and maybe 5D3) to AF at f/8 via a software update. Maybe they could make it a CF that you would turn on knowing that the outcome may not be ideal.


That really would be nice. Why not give us the option knowing that the autofocus precision won't be as good with f/8 combos? It would certainly get my vote.



Mar 26, 2012 at 10:22 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


arbitrage wrote:
That gives some hope to the rumours that Canon may allow the 1DX (and maybe 5D3) to AF at f/8 via a software update. Maybe they could make it a CF that you would turn on knowing that the outcome may not be ideal.


Geof, the AF response has never been "ideal" with f/8 combos on any faster action, even with lenses which have a rather fast AF drive such as 400 f/5.6 and 500 f/4. The problem is not the lens AF drive speed, the problem is due to limited light impinging on the camera AF sensors.
The f/8 combos result in a pathetic AF responsiveness by design.

Naturally, you'll always find BIF shots with f/8 combos posted on different fora, however, what those folks do not tell you is what their keeper rate is. Yes, I can shoot BIF even by focusing manually, however, the keeper rate would be totally abysmal on any shots with a bit higher degree of difficulty.




Mar 26, 2012 at 10:26 PM
Schlotkins
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


Thanks for posting this information. I was thinking about a 1D IV, but I believe I'm going to roll with a 5D MKIII, 7D, a 1.4x III and a 600 II. I think the -2 EV will really come in handy during morning/evening shots. Plus, my guess is a 5DIII + 600L II would produce shots with as much resolution as my current 7d + 500L setup even though I have less pixels per duck so to speak. Of course, I'll save some weight too as my wallet will be empty.

Chris



Mar 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM
Pixel Perfect
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


PetKal wrote:
Geof, the AF response has never been "ideal" with f/8 combos on any faster action, even with lenses which have a rather fast AF drive such as 400 f/5.6 and 500 f/4. The problem is not the lens AF drive speed, the problem is due to limited light impinging on the camera AF sensors.
The f/8 combos result in a pathetic AF responsiveness by design.

Naturally, you'll always find BIF shots with f/8 combos posted on different fora, however, what those folks do not tell you is what their keeper rate is. Yes, I can shoot BIF even by focusing manually, however,
...Show more

I wouldn't say it's pathetic by any stretch. Sure it's not fast enough for erratic or fast subjects in general, but you can still get pretty good results with more than a limited keeper rate in good light. I would still mainly use it for static or slower subjects, but I've even used it for dragon flies in flight with pretty good success as in I didn't get much worse keeper rate than I would even with bare lens.



Mar 26, 2012 at 11:32 PM
AJay
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


Schlotkins wrote:
Thanks for posting this information. I was thinking about a 1D IV, but I believe I'm going to roll with a 5D MKIII, 7D, a 1.4x III and a 600 II. I think the -2 EV will really come in handy during morning/evening shots. Plus, my guess is a 5DIII + 600L II would produce shots with as much resolution as my current 7d + 500L setup even though I have less pixels per duck so to speak. Of course, I'll save some weight too as my wallet will be empty.

Chris


Same here. I have had a 600mm II on order for a while now. I also used to own a Mark IV and sold it. I currently shoot with (2) 7Ds and now a 5DM3. All I need is a hand-holdable 600mm and I'm good to go!

Alan





Mar 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM
safcraft
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


AJay wrote:
Well, I personally had very little luck photographing birds against busy backgrounds using the 5DM2. I could do quite well with birds against blue sky, but not busy backgrounds.

Double-Crested Cormorants are not slow-flying BTW. I can't even imagine getting a clean image of a Double-Crested Cormorant against a dark background using the 5DM2.



Agreed on the Cormorants, they do represent a much harder target than herons. Against busy backgrounds i don't think i ever nailed one with the 5D. They do fly high and far away and i do not own a 500/600, so litle experience here.

What i find VERY significative (you falied to mention that on the 1st post) is that you used to own a 5D2.
As Petkal said, noticing a big difference between them is what counts. And the fact that is working for you know is the main reason why you should be happy !

I dont' have the cash for it....so i'll stick with my 1D2 for now.



Mar 27, 2012 at 05:06 AM
Ralph Conway
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


Thank you for sharing, AJay.

R.



Mar 27, 2012 at 05:22 AM
mogud
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


Thx for posting these excellent BIF shots and for the comments. These results have helped me decide between the 5D3 and the 1DIV with the 5D3 getting the nod.


Mar 27, 2012 at 07:24 AM
rprouty
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


I find it hard to tell from a few posted shots. If I go out and shoot a thousand shots and find some sharp and in focus then I can claim that camera is great for birds in flight. "I'm in no way suggesting that's what the original poster did."
We have no problem with our 1DIII or 1DIV and have no immediate plans on getting a 5DIII.



Mar 27, 2012 at 07:51 AM
Lars Johnsson
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


AJay, thank you for sharing your test


Mar 27, 2012 at 08:09 AM
Bones74
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


PetKal wrote:
Never mind that....if 5D MkIII auto focus is not better than 1DMkIV's, then I think we'll hear "Huston, we have a problem", because 1DX AF will not be much different, will it ?


I think the 1Dx has super telepathic tracking ability that the 5Dmk3 doesnt Apart from that the AF is the same...



Mar 27, 2012 at 08:34 AM
uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


rprouty wrote:
I find it hard to tell from a few posted shots. If I go out and shoot a thousand shots and find some sharp and in focus then I can claim that camera is great for birds in flight. "I'm in no way suggesting that's what the original poster did."
We have no problem with our 1DIII or 1DIV and have no immediate plans on getting a 5DIII.


A few random comments--

First, going along with the quote above, it is very difficult to make an accurate assessment of a camera's ability to shoot action from a handful of photos posted on the internet. Such photos give no indication whatever of the camera's ability to track a moving subject over a period of time or of what the keeper rate of in-focus shots is.

Further, much of the success one has shooting birds-in-flight or other action depends on the level of skill and technique used by the photographer. Over the years, I've had excellent results shooting action with cameras like the 20D ...when I was able to successfully lock in focus with the center point and to successfully keep the active focus point(s) on the subject. On the other hand, when I haven't done my job and properly locked in focus or when I haven't been able to keep the active focus point(s) on the subject, I've had miserable results with 1-series cameras. I know that AJ is an experienced and very capable wildlife photographer, and he has taken outstanding photos with both 1-series and non-1-series bodies.

Also, I'm not sure that I know what leads some who have posted to have such a high level of confidence that the 5D Mark III and 1DX AF systems are going to perform at comparable levels. Just because the two auto focus systems share much of the same hardware and have the same arrays of focus points means very little with regard to concluding that the two systems will perform similarly. Differences in processing power and AF algorithms (which might be necessary because of the differences in processing power) could well lead to very different capabilities of the two AF systems. While I'm confident that the 5D Mark III AF system is a major upgrade from that of the 5D Mark II and other previous non-series cameras, I'll be surprised if the 1DX AF system isn't at a whole level higher yet in terms of its ability to capture fast action. With a $3300 price difference between the two cameras, I'd be disappointed if that was not the case, and I'd expect that differences in AF capabilities will be one the distinctions that will continue to allow Canon to justify that price difference.

I fully expect that the 5D Mark III AF system is an excellent one. I would expect that it would be at least somewhat more capable than that of the 7D, which also had an AF system significantly more capable than that of any previous non-1-series body. On the other hand, I will not be shocked if the 5D Mark III AF system is not at the same level of capability for shooting action as that of the 1DX or even that of previous 1-series bodies. To be confident otherwise is likely a case of wishful thinking and cognitive dissonance.

Les



Mar 27, 2012 at 08:47 AM
AJay
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


Hold the phone here! Before you guys start making buying decisions between which camera to buy based on my original comments, this is just a preliminary test of the 5DM3's autofocus system for BIF. It is in no means conclusive.

I have yet to test birds flying towards me or other low-contrast scenarios such as sandhill cranes against brown reed backgrounds, etc.

All I can say for certainty at this point is that it is definitely better than the 5D Mark II. It appears to be close to that of the 7D and 1D Mark IV. That's about it.

I did get some nice shots and some that I missed too, mostly due to not keeping up with the motion of the bird, but I'm not 100% there yet as to blessing the camera's autofocus system. This is just an initial report.

I will also state that 6 fps is about as low as I would go with any DSLR for BIF. There's a lot to be said for the Mark IV's 10fps or 7D's 8fps. Be sure to take that into consideration when determining which camera is best for your needs. Fast flying birds like ducks need at least 8 fps to capture the wing-beats at various stages. 10-12 fps would be best.

Let's not draw any concrete conclusions just yet.



Mar 27, 2012 at 09:00 AM
AJay
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


Les,

Excellent post. I just read it after I wrote my last comments. I don't think I could have stated it better.

One thing to remember is that all these cameras are using contrast to determine focus. As technology advances, these systems are getting better, but still are not perfect. It does take a lot of experience photographing BIF to get good at it. It's not easy keeping a focus point on a bird flying by and especially with full-frame sensors, the field of view is larger making it more difficult to keep the bird from drifting off of the autofocus points.

Thanks Les,

Alan



Mar 27, 2012 at 09:11 AM
Ralph Conway
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 5DM3 Birds-In-Flight


Who does BIF? But beeing able to gives you a lot of freedom for different purposes ...

R.



Mar 27, 2012 at 09:16 AM
1      
2
       3       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.