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Archive 2012 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness

  
 
chez
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


teebat wrote:
Thank you captain obvious.


If it is so obvious...why are you asking the question?



Mar 19, 2012 at 09:45 PM
chez
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


Peter Figen wrote:
Chez - I'm not advocating that people don't get a permit, only reporting what I see. Hmmm. Salmon Arm BC. I bet it's really beautiful up there, but I also bet there's little if any bureaucracy up there. The sad fact is that in many areas of Southern California there is no distinction made between small still photography shoots and major motion pictures, with the fee structures always going toward the film industry. Some state parks and some county parks are reasonable with fees of around a hundred dollars a shoot, but some aren't, and that's why a lot
...Show more

Here is a link detailing requirements and fees for shooting in the Rockies.

http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/ab/banff/plan/reglements-regulations/plan10.aspx

Not much different from shooting at the beaches.



Mar 19, 2012 at 09:54 PM
jetmutant
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


THe permit is "per session" and like someone else posted it is not only the fine it is the taxes & fees that are tacked on, depends if you are lucky the life guards will ask you to just leave (they are the ones usually watching), I did have some hassle me when i was just down there shooting because it looks nice, the fine with fees will top 1K and they are given by cops from Newport or Park Rangers... hard to sneak because there were /are some rude jerks down there causing issues


Mar 19, 2012 at 09:58 PM
Peter Figen
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


Well, that's for shooting in a National Park, and the fees for a small crew are still far less than half of many of the fees here for a city or county beach. That's about what I'd expect for shooting up there. The problem here is that you can move a half mile up or down the coast and it can run you ten times more - or less. Some places are reasonable and others outrageous, and there are many different authorities to deal with.


Mar 19, 2012 at 10:05 PM
chez
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


jetmutant wrote:
THe permit is "per session" and like someone else posted it is not only the fine it is the taxes & fees that are tacked on, depends if you are lucky the life guards will ask you to just leave (they are the ones usually watching), I did have some hassle me when i was just down there shooting because it looks nice, the fine with fees will top 1K and they are given by cops from Newport or Park Rangers... hard to sneak because there were /are some rude jerks down there causing issues


You were trying to sneak in and shoot for free and the cops were being the jerks...really.



Mar 20, 2012 at 07:27 AM
cineski
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


Big government eventually leads to desperation for money when the rich people run out of it or (in California's example) leave the state. LA was recently trying to fine people $1000 for playing football on the beaches for criminy sakes! While it's one thing to try curbing photoshoots because of over saturation (not really happening due to pros because almost every tourist on the beach are taking pictures of their kids or friends), what's really going on is just desperation for money which makes it a bit harder to take. OP, Laguna Beach, from what I remember is a lot cheaper for a permit so you might consider going there. Otherwise it's up to you. Do you want to make a big donation to the government or a bigger donation? If your clients expect you to break the laws (even stupid ones) it's time to find new clients.


Mar 23, 2012 at 09:37 AM
Micky Bill
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


chez wrote:
You were trying to sneak in and shoot for free and the cops were being the jerks...really.


I think he means that there were so many rude jerks (photographers) shooting there things got out of hand which in turn caused increased enforcement by the popo.



Mar 23, 2012 at 10:58 AM
teebat
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


Micky Bill wrote:
I think he means that there were so many rude jerks (photographers) shooting there things got out of hand which in turn caused increased enforcement by the popo.


Exactly



Mar 23, 2012 at 08:38 PM
marti.g3
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


There are plenty of other beach areas other than Newport that are great for engagements and families. I use them all of the time.

And yes photographers created this mess. Are they pros or wannabes ? Who knows.
Isn't anyone with a camera nowadays a " photographer".

Thank you digital imaging.

Edited on Mar 25, 2012 at 08:52 PM · View previous versions



Mar 24, 2012 at 10:34 AM
RDKirk
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


If you are a city resident, take it to the city council. Point out that the price is too high for ordinary still camera work, and the high price causes most photographers to shoot without permits. Argue that the price is suitable for film or video productions, but still camera photographers should be granted either a much lower per-session fee or that the $800 should be an annual fee.

Wouldn't hurt and you might be successful, especially if you bring in a group of other professional photographers...and add that the increased fee must be passed on to the town citizens who are your customers, unlike film/video productions.



Mar 25, 2012 at 04:54 PM
teebat
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


RDKirk wrote:
If you are a city resident, take it to the city council. Point out that the price is too high for ordinary still camera work, and the high price causes most photographers to shoot without permits. Argue that the price is suitable for film or video productions, but still camera photographers should be granted either a much lower per-session fee or that the $800 should be an annual fee.

Wouldn't hurt and you might be successful, especially if you bring in a group of other professional photographers...and add that the increased fee must be passed on to the town citizens who
...Show more

That's a real good idea, but I am not a city resident. I feel that something is going on, I was stopped yesterday at a different place that I take a lot of military wedding couples to.
I have shot at this area ( 20 yeasr) and have done events there, I know the director and they have many of my photos on the walls of the offices and in their arhcive.

For the last 2 years they have hired a security service that partols the are ( this is federal land and a open to the public national moument area ) The security guard stopped and told me that photography has NEVER been allowed at this place, this is a lie . There is a sign posted that states recreational activity's such a jogging, bicycling and walking are not permitted. This guy told me it states that NO PHOTOGRAPHY IS ALLOWED, and it has been that way for years. This is bull, I am going to seen the director this week. The bride is an officer in the Air Force who works with the Pentagon, her fahter is the CO of the local airbase. This couple wanted photos their to honor their affliation with the US Air force, we saw literally 3 other people in the entire are, that included the security officer.

He told that I had just never been caught before, like we were trying to be sneaky, and now that he is on the job I won't be able to "get away with it anymore".

Luckily we we're done, but I am pissed. I asked the guy, "so families that come here to feed the ducks are in violation because it's recreational " and he said technically yes they are in violation. This is ludicrious, this kid was barely 21 and on an obvious power trip.

Well I am venting, but has photography become such an issue? I am hoping that the current attitude against photography does not become a state wide trend. We have some property and a business license that allows us to run a photography business on our land, I am thinking that we may have to invest a sizealble amount and have the area landscaped and built specifically for photography so that we can have a area to shoot in without being hasseled.




Mar 25, 2012 at 08:14 PM
marti.g3
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


RDKirk wrote:
If you are a city resident, take it to the city council. Point out that the price is too high for ordinary still camera work, and the high price causes most photographers to shoot without permits. Argue that the price is suitable for film or video productions, but still camera photographers should be granted either a much lower per-session fee or that the $800 should be an annual fee.

Wouldn't hurt and you might be successful, especially if you bring in a group of other professional photographers...and add that the increased fee must be passed on to the town citizens who
...Show more

Interesting note, many of the out of town photographers who "come to town to use the beaches" for photo shoots bring their out of town clients also.



Mar 25, 2012 at 08:54 PM
marti.g3
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


teebat wrote:
That's a real good idea, but I am not a city resident. I feel that something is going on, I was stopped yesterday at a different place that I take a lot of military wedding couples to.
I have shot at this area ( 20 yeasr) and have done events there, I know the director and they have many of my photos on the walls of the offices and in their arhcive.

For the last 2 years they have hired a security service that partols the are ( this is federal land and a open to the public national moument area
...Show more


Thank you digital imaging that allows ANYONE to call themselves a photographer.

That security guard was an idiot.



Mar 25, 2012 at 08:56 PM
RDKirk
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


Interesting note, many of the out of town photographers who "come to town to use the beaches" for photo shoots bring their out of town clients also.

Which does not invalidate the argument for the local photographers to demand reasonable fees--which the out-of-town photographers would also be subject to.

This guy told me it states that NO PHOTOGRAPHY IS ALLOWED, and it has been that way for years. This is bull, I am going to seen the director this week.

Or just check the law and then see his boss. There is no federal land with open access that is absolutely closed to photography. There are areas where a permit is required--and not always at a cost--but there are no areas where photography is prohibited that don't require you to climb a fence or go through a guarded gate to get there.



Mar 26, 2012 at 05:39 AM
alohadave
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


marti.g3 wrote:
Thank you digital imaging that allows ANYONE to call themselves a photographer.


Can you please stop beating this horse? We get it, you have a problem with "professional" photographers.



Mar 26, 2012 at 04:49 PM
marti.g3
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


alohadave wrote:
Can you please stop beating this horse? We get it, you have a problem with "professional"
photographers.


OH get over yourself.....WE, the professionals, have to put up with crap by amateurs who have no
ethics or caring for being a true professional. I'll beat that dead horse day and night because it has
lowered the standards of our profession and they're never coming back...and that translates into lost $$$$ as a career.



Mar 26, 2012 at 05:26 PM
chez
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


marti.g3 wrote:
OH get over yourself.....WE, the professionals, have to put up with crap by amateurs who have no
ethics or caring for being a true professional. I'll beat that dead horse day and night because it has
lowered the standards of our profession and they're never coming back...and that translates into lost $$$$ as a career.


Then raise your own standards above the amateurs and clean up on the clients that care about such standards. You have lost the game when you blame others.



Mar 26, 2012 at 10:53 PM
alohadave
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


marti.g3 wrote:
OH get over yourself.....WE, the professionals, have to put up with crap by amateurs who have no
ethics or caring for being a true professional. I'll beat that dead horse day and night because it has
lowered the standards of our profession and they're never coming back...and that translates into lost $$$$ as a career.


Like I said, we get it. You don't have to put it in every post.



Mar 26, 2012 at 10:57 PM
jetmutant
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


@ Chez...

Uh NO! you missed the point... there were photographers there taking over the beach being jerks to the residents and the beach goers... going as far to kick people out of "their area"... got bad enough the city had to get involved.
I bought a permit but know those who have not... 1 got fined 2 others were just asked to leave... IF you are thinking about sneaking... you WILL probably get busted... and ruin your shoot... just wasn't worth it for me so I paid for a permit cause that's where the couple wanted to shoot



Apr 06, 2012 at 09:36 AM
marti.g3
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Is it better to get permission or ask for forgiveness


chez wrote:
Then raise your own standards above the amateurs and clean up on the clients that care about such standards. You have lost the game when you blame others.


Blah blah blah....what ?



Apr 07, 2012 at 10:45 PM
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