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Archive 2012 · Vagabond or UPS?

jzucker
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p.1 #1 · Vagabond or UPS?

So in doing some searches, it turns out some folks are using UPS or homemade battery packs as an alternative to the vagabond.

Just wondering if anybody here has done that?

Mar 08, 2012 at 02:08 PM

RustyBug
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p.1 #2 · Vagabond or UPS?

Hmmm, UPS ... interesting (given the various sizes available) ... if it is safe for use (i.e. safe for computer electronics, so why not ??).

Mar 08, 2012 at 02:20 PM

jzucker
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p.1 #3 · Vagabond or UPS?

RustyBug wrote:
Hmmm, UPS ... interesting (given the various sizes available) ... if it is safe for use (i.e. safe for computer electronics, so why not ??).

as long as it produced a pure sine wave it's ok to use. See this link for an explanation

http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/

Mar 08, 2012 at 02:33 PM

RustyBug
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p.1 #4 · Vagabond or UPS?

Interesting link ... even for just general info @ UPS diff vs. $$$ diff.

Too bad marketing people have to muck everything up with "smart" lingo that can turn Einstein into an ignoramus due to BS terminology. If it uses a sine wave converter, just say so, if it uses a step converter, just say that. BS @ back-ups vs. smart.

How is a guy without a scope supposed to tell the diff when everything is masked by marketing lingo? I'm pretty sure the store clerk isn't going to be versed in the diff ... "Oh, this one's better because it cost more and they put more stuff in it." ... I can hear it now.

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:03 PM

jzucker
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p.1 #5 · Vagabond or UPS?

RustyBug wrote:
Interesting link ... even for just general info @ UPS diff vs. $$$ diff.

Too bad marketing people have to muck everything up with "smart" lingo that can turn Einstein into an ignoramus due to BS terminology. If it uses a sine wave converter, just say so, if it uses a step converter, just say that. BS @ back-ups vs. smart.

How is a guy without a scope supposed to tell the diff when everything is masked by marketing lingo? I'm pretty sure the store clerk isn't going to be versed in the diff ... "Oh, this one's better because it cost more and they put more stuff in it." ... I can hear it now.

Well, I guess the assumption is that you are plugging computers into them and the power supply in the computer will smooth out the power. They aren't expecting you to plug a studio flash into them but yeah, a sine wave should be a sine wave.

Even though the UPS units are half the cost of the vagabond, they are 3x the weight and size.

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:15 PM

kenyee
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p.1 #6 · Vagabond or UPS?

jzucker wrote:
Even though the UPS units are half the cost of the vagabond, they are 3x the weight and size.

Hence why people don't do it

cthew on this forum has done that w/ an APC SmartUPS (pure sine wave) w/o problems, but the weight/size makes it not useful for location shoots.
Get a VML per strobe and your back will be happier...

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:43 PM

cwebster
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p.1 #7 · Vagabond or UPS?

All the sine wave inverters I've seen on the market say "pure sine" somewhere on the product or in the specs. If it doesn't say "pure sine" it may well just fry your strobes.

There are a lot of them out there, but by the time you buy, wire, and package the components (battery, inverter, and battery charger) you will end up spending almost as much as a Vagabond II or a VML will cost you.

<Chas>

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:45 PM

jzucker
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p.1 #8 · Vagabond or UPS?

so if they say "sine wave" that's a clipped sine then? Yikes!

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:55 PM

cwebster
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p.1 #9 · Vagabond or UPS?

jzucker wrote:
so if they say "sine wave" that's a clipped sine then? Yikes!

No, it's the other way around

Mar 08, 2012 at 04:20 PM

jzucker
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p.1 #10 · Vagabond or UPS?

cwebster wrote:
jzucker wrote:
so if they say "sine wave" that's a clipped sine then? Yikes!

No, it's the other way around

But you just said unless they say "pure sine wave" and many specs just say "sine wave".

Mar 08, 2012 at 04:26 PM

PeterBerressem
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p.1 #11 · Vagabond or UPS?

Just "sine wave" = modified sine wave vs. "pure / true sine wave".
As for UPS and flashes... most will simply shut down ("overload") due to the hefty initial load of the usual capacitor bundles.

Mar 08, 2012 at 05:32 PM

jzucker
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p.1 #12 · Vagabond or UPS?

ok, so I was right then. If it says "Sine Wave" it's not a true/pure sine wave...Sheesh.

Mar 08, 2012 at 05:53 PM

RustyBug
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p.1 #13 · Vagabond or UPS?

jzucker wrote:
ok, so I was right then. If it says "Sine Wave" it's not a true/pure sine wave...Sheesh.

Yup ... Marketing lingo ... that's a law suit waiting to happen when someone buys a "Sine Wave" and fries some gear with it.

So, I guess while a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet ... the same is true @ a crappy signal will still fry your gear, no matter what you call it.

BTW ... I have a couple VML's.

Mar 08, 2012 at 07:02 PM

jzucker
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p.1 #14 · Vagabond or UPS?

How do you like the VML's? Even though it looks like you can find cheaper options, the buff unit seems small and lightweight. Does the battery last enough for a day's shooting?

Mar 08, 2012 at 08:12 PM

RustyBug
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p.1 #15 · Vagabond or UPS?

I'm not a good guage of a "day's shooting" ... I use them sporadically, so I've never exhausted one. I keep one in my truck as backup power for my cameras should I ever run out of juice and need to go on A/C while remote ... or for when I want to do some long exposure night work.

I've even used mine to run my cable modem / wireless router during power outages.

BUT, I can say they do a really good job @ holding a charge for a long period of time. Other than the awkward clamp scenario (I ordered mine on the very first day), I have really liked mine, even if I don't use them as much as others.

Edited on Mar 08, 2012 at 09:14 PM · View previous versions

Mar 08, 2012 at 09:10 PM

jzucker
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p.1 #16 · Vagabond or UPS?

Cool, thanks for the info. Sounds like it's well worth it to get a cbuff version since it's small and light.

Mar 08, 2012 at 09:13 PM

alohadave
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p.1 #17 · Vagabond or UPS?

RustyBug wrote:
jzucker wrote:
ok, so I was right then. If it says "Sine Wave" it's not a true/pure sine wave...Sheesh.

Yup ... Marketing lingo ... that's a law suit waiting to happen when someone buys a "Sine Wave" and fries some gear with it.

So, I guess while a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet ... the same is true @ a crappy signal will still fry your gear, no matter what you call it.

BTW ... I have a couple VML's.

Why would it be a lawsuit waiting to happen? They aren't marketed to photographers and they make no claims to be safe for photographic equipment. If they did either, then yeah, there could be a case.

Mar 08, 2012 at 10:49 PM

PShizzy
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p.1 #18 · Vagabond or UPS?

Unless you're on a shoestring budget, the VML's are totally worth their cost.

Mar 09, 2012 at 12:05 AM

RustyBug
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p.1 #19 · Vagabond or UPS?

I wasn't referring specifically to photographic equipment ... there is other electronic gear that could be dependent upon a true sine wave signal ... and the labeling is misleading ... i.e. sine wave when it really isn't one. But, I don't recall any warnings that preclude it from being used @ photo gear (or other specifics) either.

Although, I guess it wouldn't matter too much if they would honor their guarantee @ $$$$$ for damaged gear. But ... if they were to try and wiggle out of their guarantee by saying you really needed to buy the true sine wave product ... that's where the suit would be viable @ the misleading labeling.

I just find it to be very misleading labeling regarding something that is fundamentally characteristic of the product.

Mar 09, 2012 at 12:22 AM

rico
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p.1 #20 · Vagabond or UPS?

jzucker wrote:
Even though the UPS units are half the cost of the vagabond, they are 3x the weight and size.

Besides the lead-acid cell, Smart-UPS has a transformer (big hunk of iron): this is used to normalize output during input brownouts and over-voltage conditions while remaining on mains power. Would be nice for outdoor photogs if that deadweight could be removed.

Mar 09, 2012 at 07:55 AM

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