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Archive 2012 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?
  
 
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #1 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


I'm taking a big trip soon to Central America, actually in about a month and a half. I'm trying to brainstorm my travel kit so I can practice with it before I go.

In my travels to Iceland and Europe, this lens combo served me very well. I adapted a ZF.2 21mm F2.8 Zeiss to my Alpha Mount full frame 24mpx A850, I chipped the adapter so I was able even use Steady Shot which helped in some situations especially in Iceland when it was hard to deploy a tripod in some of the rocky areas.

I enjoyed the Zeiss 21mm F2.8's high contrast and micro contrast even fully open. I also really like that it is almost completely free of purple fringing and CA. Perhaps its greatest weakness is vignetting wide open but by F5.6, it's pretty negligible.


Now, I have the NEX-7. In RAW tests, it seems the NEX-7 matches the noise and dynamic range performance of the A850. Perhaps even beating it slightly in dynamic range at base ISO. This is a very interesting situation as that means I don't have to lug a big heavy FF camera around.

Given that, can you think of a wide angle lens that is in the 20-24mm EQUIVALENT (to 35mm) range with F2.8 that will be useable on the NEX-7. It doesn't have to be a range finder lens but not something as huge as the Samyang 14mm.

Lets say the budget is $3000 hard limit.



Feb 28, 2012 at 09:39 PM
JimUe
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p.1 #2 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


so a compact 14-16/2.8 lens that's zeiss 21 like?

i thought the samyang 14 was reasonably sized...




Feb 28, 2012 at 10:10 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #3 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


Yes, part of the motivation in getting a compact WA solution than my A850 + 21 Zeiss is that I'll be roaming around in Central America.

In Western Europe, this was fine, but I'd like something slightly more discrete that doesn't paint me as a big target.

I used to own the Sammy 14mm and it was huge, IIRC, it felt bigger than the Zeiss 21.

The closest reasonably priced lens I found was a Sigma 10-20mm HSM F4-5.6.

I'm sure it won't have Zeiss like rendering but the market for APS-C extremely good WA lenses seem to be very limited.



Feb 28, 2012 at 10:11 PM
Jacob D
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p.1 #4 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


JimUe wrote:
so a compact 14-16/2.8 lens that's zeiss 21 like?

It's a tall order... especially with the 7. I don't think such a thing exists.


NEX 5N + ZM18 is what you're after.


Edited on Feb 28, 2012 at 11:19 PM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2012 at 11:16 PM
corposant
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p.1 #5 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


Is it too late to buy/borrow a 5N?


Feb 28, 2012 at 11:18 PM
Jacob D
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p.1 #6 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


^ You beat me to it.


Feb 28, 2012 at 11:19 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #7 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


I also have a C3 which I will be bringing with me. But I really prefer to have 24mpx.

The ZM 18 is only 28mm though. Ie kit lens perspective. :P



Feb 28, 2012 at 11:20 PM
philip_pj
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p.1 #8 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


'i thought the samyang 14 was reasonably sized...'

Opinions will vary, according to people's take on the facts of the matter:

Samyang 14/2.8 length: 3.8 inches, weight: 530 grams
Zeiss 21/2.8 (ZF) length: 3.35 inches, weight: 600 grams

I'd say Fly has a case. The Samyang is similarly huge at the front end.

The Zeiss is designed to accommodate 1-2 filters, a choice not available to the Samyang user, as the lens can accommodate no filter at all.

It is also highly recommended for fans of 'hellacious' distortion, to use Ken Rockwell's term. He also has a very demonstrative (read hilarious) image showing just how ugly photographs can get from this lens, about 70% down this copiously white-spaced page:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/samyang/14mm-f28.htm#spex

To think people moan about the moustache distortion of the 21mm Zeiss, lol.

The sentiment that 'it won't have Zeiss like rendering' (let alone the 21mm signature look) is a worthy candidate for understatement of the month.



Feb 28, 2012 at 11:26 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #9 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


I doubt you will currently find anything that will equal your A850 + Zeiss 21 for the NEX-7.


Feb 28, 2012 at 11:43 PM
Jacob D
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p.1 #10 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


FlyPenFly wrote:
I also have a C3 which I will be bringing with me. But I really prefer to have 24mpx.

The ZM 18 is only 28mm though. Ie kit lens perspective. :P

Well, you're the one coming up with the criteria here. If you think such a lens exists, let us know your thoughts

I think the 5N + ZM18 is the closest fit to your criteria (compact, Zeiss-like, under $3000, and near 24mm equiv).

Looks like the WATE does a good job at 16 and 18mm, but it's a $5-6k lens... or 3 $1700 lenses rolled into one small package if you want to look at it that way. Reports from a couple of folks here seem to indicate it does well on the NEX 7.

Maybe the CV15, but I doubt you will be happy comparing it to the Zeiss 21 on a full frame SLR.

I think you're going to have to budge on one of your criteria



Feb 28, 2012 at 11:45 PM
 

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Sp12
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p.1 #11 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


CV15 is the obvious choice.


Feb 28, 2012 at 11:55 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #12 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


Sp12 wrote:
CV15 is the obvious choice.


Is it? Seems there are color vignetting issues - and possibly detail smearing- with the NEX-7 and this lens.



Feb 29, 2012 at 12:08 AM
RCicala
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p.1 #13 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


Not quite as wide as you'd like, but the Leica 18mm and 21mm Elmars meet the size, cost, and sharpness criteria. A used Zeiss 15 f/2.8 might be found close to the budget range, but a too high new.


Feb 29, 2012 at 12:53 AM
michaelwatkins
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p.1 #14 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


Choose your camera and then lens? Or choose the lens and then the camera? That's the dilemma we will probably continue to face until sensor technology changes. Maybe the X-Pro1's sensor will solve all this and play nice with everything. Or use a 5N as folks are suggesting. Or borrow a GXR just for the wider wides - it will do well with the CV12, CV15, ZM18, actually I'm not sure we've seen the GXR do poorly with any lens.


Feb 29, 2012 at 01:10 AM
JimBuchanan
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p.1 #15 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


For NEX 7, my suggestion is the Tokina 11-16 or Sigma 8-16 for Sony mount with the LA-EA-1. The APS-C ultra-wide zooms have advanced optics designs and with the long registers, should eliminate corner color shifts and smearing. There really isn't anything else shorter than the ZM18 or old SLR 17-18s. The price one pays is size and weight. There also appears to be sample variance.

I'm not there yet, but that may be where I end up...



Feb 29, 2012 at 03:49 AM
nalahm
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p.1 #16 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


Thanks to FlyPenFly for start this question
Let me ask more , how about distagon ZE 21/2.8 VS contax N 17-35/2.8 converted to EF base on canon system.
I list them in wishlist for long time and I need one this year now.



Feb 29, 2012 at 04:15 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #17 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


I had the Sigma 8-16 in Nikon when I used to shoot the D7000. Amazing lens but no character beyond it being ultra wide.

I need to be able to use filters though so I'm more likely going to go 10-20 HSM this time.



Feb 29, 2012 at 04:25 AM
Massimo Foti
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p.1 #18 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


FlyPenFly wrote:
I had the Sigma 8-16 in Nikon when I used to shoot the D7000. Amazing lens but no character beyond it being ultra wide.

I need to be able to use filters though so I'm more likely going to go 10-20 HSM this time.

I would expect better results from Tokina 11-16. Still not comparable to Zeiss 21



Feb 29, 2012 at 04:46 AM
corposant
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p.1 #19 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


FlyPenFly wrote:
I had the Sigma 8-16 in Nikon when I used to shoot the D7000. Amazing lens but no character beyond it being ultra wide.

I need to be able to use filters though so I'm more likely going to go 10-20 HSM this time.


The Tokina 11-16 takes filters (77mm) and (in my opinion) delivers awesome IQ compared to Sigma.



Feb 29, 2012 at 04:54 AM
mawz
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p.1 #20 · What is better than a Zeiss 21mm F2.8 and A850?


The only possibility I can think of is the Pentax DA 14/2.8 on a aperture-engaging K adapter.

It's not a ZF21. But it is a pretty damned good performer and both compact for a 14mm SLR lens and supports filters (77mm). I'd expect performance close to the Samyang at a higher cost but a smaller package.



Feb 29, 2012 at 05:20 AM
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