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Archive 2012 · What is APPLE made a camera!?
  
 
sebboh
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Sp12 wrote:
You're basically quoting the NEX-7 feature list.


except apple would probably be able to make it intuitive to use.



Feb 27, 2012 at 12:09 AM
zalmyb
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


sebboh wrote:
except apple would probably be able to make it intuitive to use.


Exactly. And full frame. And apps! Apps!! And wifi! And apps! (and when shooting an event, if you're bored and you don't want the client to think you're wasting time, you could stand in a corner holding the camera up and watch Netflix. Or Hulu. Or iTunes...).

And the ability to truly customize what you see on the screen, and what the camera does, I think would be quite helpful.



Feb 27, 2012 at 12:55 AM
bluetsunami
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Seeing as Apple are more on a streamlining bend I probably wouldn't buy an Apple camera. If you take what they've done with their tablets vs. a traditional computer and translate it to DSLR to mirrorless you'd probably get a camera that has most of its more customizable functions removed in place of streamlining and ease of capture. Pretty, easy to use and high quality. I'd rather get a Fuji or Ricoh made camera.


Feb 27, 2012 at 01:18 AM
chez
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Sp12 wrote:
I don't think it has to be Apple -- I'd venture it would actually be a bad thing if it was them, but if you took everyone over 40 out from every camera company you would see massive changes in the way cameras work. From integration to the removal of mechanical parts to video et photo.


Yeh, unfortunately it is the people who are over 40 that have made some mistakes in their past life that know how to run a business and stay afloat in these trying times. Wizbang is great, but nothing replaces good business knowledge.



Feb 27, 2012 at 01:39 AM
itai195
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Just a few comments:

First, people like to toss around words like 'open' and 'closed', but what do they really mean? They don't mean anything; they are squishy, overloaded, marketing terms. Whether or not a camera is 'open' or 'closed' according to some subjective definition has no correlation to the value or quality of the product.

Second, one thing I can say about my iPhone: for a 'closed' platform, it sure lets me do a ton of things that are much, much more difficult to do on my multi-thousand dollar DSLR.

Third, the camera market is full of entrenched interests and stale business models. It's ripe for disruption. I don't care who does it, but it's going to happen sooner or later.

Edited on Feb 27, 2012 at 02:53 AM · View previous versions



Feb 27, 2012 at 02:49 AM
SteveF
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Using the iPad or iPhone as an metaphor, they would make the camera that was fantastic - with truly new features that broke the mold. It would catch the industry leaders off guard and take them two years to catch up.

Right when others caught up Apple would release Camera 2 that was again the standard that the industry was judged by.

From not being in the camera business they would lead the camera market within a decade.

I expect that were Apple to get into cameras we would all be better off as photographers.

As for the fanboys and fangirls of this brand or that brand ( or this team or that team ) - the brand and the team exist to make money off of you. Unless Nikon (or Canon or Apple or the Yankees or the Giants) is paying you lots of money you have no loyalty to them, and they certainly don't give a **** about you - except as a source of cash.

Being anti- any company with a recent history of ground breaking inovation because of preconceived biases is truly brainstem level thinking.



Feb 27, 2012 at 02:52 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


itai195 wrote:
Just a few comments:

Whether or not a camera is 'open' or 'closed' according to some subjective definition has no correlation to the value or quality of the product.


In case you are not aware, realize you just posted this in the Alternative Gear and Lenses Forum - a place where a cameras "openness" and ability to mount non-native lenses does have value and certainly can (and often does) affect the quality of the final image. Geez!



Feb 27, 2012 at 03:05 AM
itai195
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


That, again, depends on what your definition of 'open' is... which was precisely the point of my post

Last I checked, Nikon and Canon aren't exactly 'open' about the details of their lens mounts, and yet despite the 'closed' nature of those systems this forum still exists. I'm suggesting that we dispense with the use of squishy terms like 'open' and 'closed' and actually say what we mean.



Feb 27, 2012 at 03:13 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


itai195 wrote:
That, again, depends on what your definition of 'open' is... which was precisely the point of my post

Last I checked, Nikon and Canon aren't exactly 'open' about the details of their lens mounts, and yet despite the 'closed' nature of those systems this forum still exists. I'm suggesting that we dispense with the use of squishy terms like 'open' and 'closed' and actually say what we mean.


There are of course many more "open" platforms besides Canon or Nikon. Sony NEX has published and made available all info with regard to their mount. The M mount is open and used by more manufacturers than just Leica. M42 is pretty open, commonly referred to as the "universal" screw mount.

In the context of software, the term open is not "squishy" nor non-defined at all. It's pretty commonly understood that a system that is neither licensed nor openly published and/ or based on open standards is considered a closed system whereas one based on open standards and which is published is considered open. There exists a distinct and specific distinction in the software world for "open" versus "closed" systems. Apple iOS is a closed system. Apple does not licence it for installation on non-Apple hardware. Apple maintains strict control as to what programs they allow a user to load and run on an iOS device. In contrast, Google Android is an open system. It is based on open standards and Google releases the Android code as open-source under the Apache license.



Feb 27, 2012 at 03:46 AM
miloz
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Apple has no reason to make a camera. They (and iOS app developers) been instrumental in getting people to use their phones as 'real' cameras, eliminating the need for a lot of people to carry point and shoots.
They'll just keep upgrading the photo capabilities of the iPad and iPhone.



Feb 27, 2012 at 03:46 AM
 

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sebboh
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


miloz wrote:
Apple has no reason to make a camera. They (and iOS app developers) been instrumental in getting people to use their phones as 'real' cameras, eliminating the need for a lot of people to carry point and shoots.
They'll just keep upgrading the photo capabilities of the iPad and iPhone.


agreed, if we're talking about what will actually happen rather than what we would like to happen.



Feb 27, 2012 at 04:03 AM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


large format camera by apple.

not my image



Feb 27, 2012 at 04:20 AM
bluetsunami
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · What is APPLE made a camera!?





Feb 27, 2012 at 04:31 AM
itai195
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
In the context of software, the term open is not "squishy" nor non-defined at all. It's pretty commonly understood that a system that is neither licensed nor openly published and/ or based on open standards is considered a closed system whereas one based on open standards and which is published is considered open. There exists a distinct and specific distinction in the software world for "open" versus "closed" systems. Apple iOS is a closed system. Apple does not licence it for installation on non-Apple hardware. Apple maintains strict control as to what programs they allow a user to load
...Show more

Yes, that is the literal definition of open source, but it's not the whole story. Things get much more subjective when you move beyond the literal definition. For example, parts of iOS are also open source. Some forks and versions of Android are not open source. OEMs must get Google approval for tweaks they make to the OS if they want support. Google often requires that OEMs use Google services on their devices if they want support. Many Android devices ship with crapware that can't easily be deleted And on and on... Is that open? Shades of gray...

And what's more, the real question is in what way has the purported openness of Android made it a superior product? In what ways has the closed nature of iOS made it an inferior product? I'd argue that 'open' has been turned into a meaningless marketing term that has no relevance for most consumers. The 'closed' iOS has revolutionized photography for millions of people -- it should be self-evident that the closed vs open argument is totally irrelevant. Maybe an Apple-made camera wouldn't be successful, who knows? But I doubt its success or failure in the market would be determined by whether or not it's 'open'.

Also, people who want to hack their devices in crazy ways will always be able to do so anyway, just as we're able to shoot a bunch of non-native lenses on 'closed' or simply incompatible mounts.



Feb 27, 2012 at 09:09 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


itai195 wrote:
Yes, that is the literal definition of open source, but it's not the whole story. Things get much more subjective when you move beyond the literal definition. For example, parts of iOS are also open source. Some forks and versions of Android are not open source. OEMs must get Google approval for tweaks they make to the OS if they want support. Google often requires that OEMs use Google services on their devices if they want support. Many Android devices ship with crapware that can't easily be deleted And on and on... Is that open? Shades of gray...

And what's more,
...Show more

It's much easier to unlock the bootloader and root the majority of Android devices (some methods are literally one click procedures any novice can perform) as most manufacturers, as well as Google, do not actively prevent the owner/ user of the device from doing so with every software update ala Apple. That's one reason there are literally hundreds of available roms and very easy to perform system tweaks for Android. The crapware can be easily deleted with a rooted device. So, on Android, the hacking community enjoys encouragement and the blessing of Google. With Apple, they are considered the enemy, ripe for suing and other adversarial tactics. Big difference and one which epitomizes the contrast between an open versus a closed system.

There are pros and cons to both approaches. They often involve a give and take between functionality, security and possibly ease of use. I have mentioned some of the functional advantages a user can or has enjoyed first for Android earlier in this thread (which does add value to the end user) and others have mentioned the security/ ease of use advantages for Apple iOs. I think we are all much better off due to the existence of both systems.

I have no idea what your getting at with the "revolutionized photography" remark. Camera phones existed way before iPhones.

As this discussion relates to some sort of mythical/ theoretical Apple camera system, it would seem clear from the above that an Apple interchangeable lens system would be closed (though I doubt they would ever offer an interchangeable lens system to begin with). Not just like Canon or Nikon where they don't license their mounts (but cheap adapters are plentiful and third parties who reverse engineer them are not sued!) but closed to the extent that any time the camera sensed that a non Apple lens was mounted, it would shut down and become a paperweight for the user. Apple would also of course actively sue any party which produced adapters or lenses which tried to circumvent this. No, I don't think I would want that myself but I'm sure Apple would also innovate in other ways which would positively affect the whole industry.






Feb 27, 2012 at 01:23 PM
jamesf99
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Zaitz wrote:
It'd be great for more photos of cross-processed Starbucks coffee cups when the hipsters are there writing on their Macbooks.


Exactly! It would also have to have great DR to insure that all the black turtle necks maintained detail against the white cups...

To the OP... What "if" apple made a camera? Then apple fans could have a new way to try and buy that elusive "cool" they're always searching for but never finding, and it would be limited, sandboxed, and TBI (to be ignored) IMO... YMMV..



Feb 27, 2012 at 02:46 PM
jamesf99
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


SteveF wrote:
Being anti- any company with a recent history of ground breaking inovation because of preconceived biases is truly brainstem level thinking.


Actually, what is brain-stem level thinking is blind allegiance to any company (e.g., Canon, Nikon, Leica, Apple, et.al.) as you said, however, giving too much, and undue, credit to a company that has simply modified the seminal ideas of others and then claims and markets it as their own "innovation" is not exactly evolved IMO.

Of course, everyone has selective vision, and apple relies on this more than any company in the world.



Feb 27, 2012 at 03:06 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Who cares about open or closed. Just make a great product that I want to use. So far android has failed on every point except price. Sure it's better than Symbian or BB but that is a low bar.

I couldn't care less about hacking roms, it's a waste of time and unstable.



Feb 27, 2012 at 03:08 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


FlyPenFly wrote:
Who cares about open or closed. Just make a great product that I want to use. So far android has failed on every point except price. Sure it's better than Symbian or BB but that is a low bar.

I couldn't care less about hacking roms, it's a waste of time and unstable.


Even without any hacking, Android offered things like wireless printing and turning your phone into a wireless hotspot long before Apple. Even today, Apple still does not offer native hands free, voice activated turn by turn navigation, something I have used on my Android smartphone for quite some time every single day. That's real functionality if you need it.

I do agree though that in the end, whatever makes someone happy with it's functionality and use is what matters but closed vs open does affect functionality and versatility in this case.



Feb 27, 2012 at 03:19 PM
jamesf99
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · What is APPLE made a camera!?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Even without any hacking, Android offered things like wireless printing and turning your phone into a wireless hotspot long before Apple. Even today, Apple still does not offer native hands free, voice activated turn by turn navigation, something I have used on my Android smartphone for quite some time every single day. That's real functionality if you need it.

I do agree though that in the end, whatever makes someone happy with it's functionality and use is what matters but closed vs open does affect functionality and versatility in this case.



not to mention the total lack of an iOS file system...



Feb 27, 2012 at 03:22 PM
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