Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2012 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter
  
 
Daan B
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


Anybody know if the Olympus XZ-1 built-in ND filter is applied to RAW files?


Feb 25, 2012 at 12:48 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


I'll tell you in a minute...


Feb 25, 2012 at 12:52 PM
kosmoskatten
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


It's been twelve minutes already. I'm afraid to blink, I might miss it.


Feb 25, 2012 at 01:05 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


OK, 20 minutes...

Anybody know if the Olympus XZ-1 built-in ND filter is applied to RAW files?

Yes.

I guess this makes good sense, as the reason you're likely to use it is to reduce light intensity, to make up for shutter speeds lower that you would use with a "more capable" camera.

Here's two sample shots, using the XZ-1 in M mode, first without the ND filter and second with. The ORF files are opened in PS CS5, and haven't been touched by any Olympus PP software. In ACR, the images don't have any selectable controls at pre-conversion time, except for red eye (?), maybe because "roses are red...".

Anyway, FWIW.













Feb 25, 2012 at 01:12 PM
kosmoskatten
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


Jim; phew, my eyes were drying up...

Nice clarification BTW.



Feb 25, 2012 at 01:34 PM
Daan B
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


Jim, thanks a lot. It was worth the wait

jcolwell wrote:
I guess this makes good sense, as the reason you're likely to use it is to reduce light intensity, to make up for shutter speeds lower that you would use with a "more capable" camera.


Exactly this ^



Feb 25, 2012 at 02:39 PM
millsart
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


The ND filter is an actual physical filter and not some sort of digital facsimile on the XZ1 isn't it ? I know on the Canon G series it is as you can see it slide over the lens element.


Feb 25, 2012 at 02:57 PM
AhamB
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


millsart wrote:
The ND filter is an actual physical filter and not some sort of digital facsimile on the XZ1 isn't it ? I know on the Canon G series it is as you can see it slide over the lens element.


If it wasn't a physical filter there would be no point in calling it an ND filter, so I don't understand the question about whether it's "applied to the RAW files". A "digital ND filter" would imply simply increasing the shutter speed or stopping down further, or lowering ISO sensitivity, which doesn't achieve what an ND is used for.



Feb 25, 2012 at 03:49 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


millsart wrote:
The ND filter is an actual physical filter and not some sort of digital facsimile on the XZ1 isn't it ? I know on the Canon G series it is as you can see it slide over the lens element.


True. Same as the X100. OTOH, there's nothing like some practical examples.



Feb 25, 2012 at 03:57 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


AhamB wrote:
If it wasn't a physical filter there would be no point in calling it an ND filter, so I don't understand the question about whether it's "applied to the RAW files". A "digital ND filter" would imply simply increasing the shutter speed or stopping down further, or lowering ISO sensitivity, which doesn't achieve what an ND is used for.


I think a "digital ND filter" could be accomplished by attenuating the sensor analogue output before it's converted A-to-D. This implies that there's at least slightly more dynamic range in the sensor analogue output than in its "matched" AtoD converter, but this is certainly possible. A pre-sampling method for "lowering ISO" could provide effectively the same results as a physical ND filter, but only if it's acccomplished before the RAW file is created (i.e. before the sensor analogue output is sampled and converted to digital). Of course, this would also require super signal-to-noise performance.



Feb 25, 2012 at 04:16 PM
millsart
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


Thats what I naturally assumed, but if it was a physical filter, then it would make no sense not being applied to a RAW file, as the type of file output a user chooses wouldn't affect a physical filter in the optical path and would be a silly question for the OP to ask given his posting history here.

As such, I thought maybe it actually its a digital version and wondered if thats the case. My Leica X1 for example says it had "image stabilization" when there is neither no sensor based nor lens based stabilization effect.

Camera makers are increasingly calling software effects their hardware names. Sometimes the affect can be quite similar (X1 wasn't lol) but it does make things confusing.

Just you watch, some compact is going to have a "polarizer" option in the menu and rather than a physical filter, its just going to be some software thing that saturates blue skies more. Thus people are going to wonder why their polarizer setting isn't doing anything to cut glare off wet rocks etc


AhamB wrote:
If it wasn't a physical filter there would be no point in calling it an ND filter, so I don't understand the question about whether it's "applied to the RAW files". A "digital ND filter" would imply simply increasing the shutter speed or stopping down further, or lowering ISO sensitivity, which doesn't achieve what an ND is used for.




Feb 25, 2012 at 08:14 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


millsart wrote:
...As such, I thought maybe it actually its a digital version and wondered if thats the case. My Leica X1 for example says it had "image stabilization" when there is neither no sensor based nor lens based stabilization effect.


Exactly. My Fujifilm F31fd has "Picture Stabilization". It simply biases the program modes towards high shutter speeds.



Feb 25, 2012 at 08:40 PM
alundeb
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


jcolwell wrote:
I think a "digital ND filter" could be accomplished by attenuating the sensor analogue output before it's converted A-to-D. This implies that there's at least slightly more dynamic range in the sensor analogue output than in its "matched" AtoD converter, but this is certainly possible. A pre-sampling method for "lowering ISO" could provide effectively the same results as a physical ND filter, but only if it's acccomplished before the RAW file is created (i.e. before the sensor analogue output is sampled and converted to digital). Of course, this would also require super signal-to-noise performance.


The charge storage ("well") is the bottleneck at the lowest ISO for all sensors I know. It is possible to lower the ISO sensitvity by attenuating the signal electrically between the photodiode and the charge storage. It would have the benefit of getting a very low photon shot noise and a very clean image, since all the photons are converted (as opposed to a physical ND filter where the photons are converted to heat in the filter). On the other hand, it would increase the read noise and higher ISO will suffer. If this method is applied, it would however be no reason not to make this available simply as lower ISO.

Since RAW often has more highlight headroom than JPG, it is reasonable to ask if the ND filter is just eating the headroom. This would be feasible up to about 1 stop, but hardly 3 stops. But again, it would be better to make this available simply as lower ISO, like ISO 50 in Canon DSLRs.



Feb 25, 2012 at 08:57 PM
jcolwell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


For some subjects, I'd be happy with ISO even lower than the 50 offered in my Canon bodies.


Feb 25, 2012 at 09:06 PM
alundeb
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


Native ISO 25, bring it on!



Feb 25, 2012 at 09:20 PM
millsart
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Olympus XZ-1 built-in BD filter


Heck, give me an iso of 1 so I could not have to bother with a 10 Stop ND filter and the color cast it sometimes causes


Feb 25, 2012 at 11:55 PM





FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password