Upgrading to a 7D

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Archive 2012 · Upgrading to a 7D

Quanger
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p.1 #1 · Upgrading to a 7D

I was introduced to photography in 2008 and have since really enjoyed it as a hobby. I started off with a basic 450D with grip and invested in glass and a flashgun. Over the years, I have acquired a 17-55 F2.8 IS and a 10-22. I am debating whether or not I should continue to collect lens or start to consider upgrading my aging 450D. With approx. $1500 budget, I am wondering if it's wise to make the jump to a 7D or continue to collect glass until the 7D II is released. My main purpose for upgrading the body would be to improve ISO performance as well as continuous shooting. FF is not an option.

Is the ISO improvement worth the upgrade from a 450D to 7D?
If I opt to continue to invest in glass, the next lens would be a 70-200 F4 IS or 70-200 F2.8 IS mk1.

Feb 16, 2012 at 03:32 AM

sifpandor
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p.1 #2 · Upgrading to a 7D

If all that you're looking for is the higher ISO, then I'd probably invest in glass. Maybe some primes? For example, the 50 1.8 is a total steal and a very shapr little lens, that will give you better than another stop over your 17-55 2.8. Are there any other reasons you're considering upgrading to the 7D?

-- Mark

Feb 16, 2012 at 03:40 AM

Wobble
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p.1 #3 · Upgrading to a 7D

I have a 7D with the 70-200 f2.8 IS mk1 with a 1.4 Extender and dearly love this combination. I don't think the 10-22 will work on FF but will give roughly an effective 16-35 on the 7D, I believe. You should be able to get the 7D for under $1100 used and the 70-200 f2.8 IS for under $1400 used. The f4 70-200 will be a lot lighter both on pocketbook and neck. Your call, better ISO now, or more reach now.

Feb 16, 2012 at 03:48 AM

Quanger
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p.1 #4 · Upgrading to a 7D

It's a tough decision. Picking up a 7D would improve in iso performance but is the difference big enough? I've always sort of tried to lean away from investing in camera bodies because new models come out too often (450D, 500D, 550D, 600D). Any rumors as to when canon will release the next generation APS-C sensor?

Feb 16, 2012 at 03:59 AM

thedutt
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p.1 #5 · Upgrading to a 7D

If ISO is your only reason to upgrade, 7D may not be the best option. If you are not already shooting raw, try that option and process your raw files with the latest version of DPP with appropriate amount of noise reduction applied. You may be in for a surprise free upgrade and free up funds for lens.
Between 70-200 F4 IS vs 70-200 f2.8 IS V1, if you do not need the f2.8, the F4 Is is a superior lens in IQ @ F4 is what I have heard. (it is newer design). Also much lighter and travel friendly. Now if you were thinking of saving up to 70-200 F2.8 IS Mk2, well then we are talking a different calibre of lens all together ;-)

Quanger wrote:
I was introduced to photography in 2008 and have since really enjoyed it as a hobby. I started off with a basic 450D with grip and invested in glass and a flashgun. Over the years, I have acquired a 17-55 F2.8 IS and a 10-22. I am debating whether or not I should continue to collect lens or start to consider upgrading my aging 450D. With approx. $1500 budget, I am wondering if it's wise to make the jump to a 7D or continue to collect glass until the 7D II is released. My main purpose for upgrading the body would be to improve ISO performance as well as continuous shooting. FF is not an option.

Is the ISO improvement worth the upgrade from a 450D to 7D?
If I opt to continue to invest in glass, the next lens would be a 70-200 F4 IS or 70-200 F2.8 IS mk1.

Feb 16, 2012 at 04:11 AM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #6 · Upgrading to a 7D

ISO 692 noise levels on 450d is equivalent to iso 854 noise levels on 7d according to Dxomark.

And I think that is pretty accurate.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings/List-view

So the ISO capability of 7d is not even 1 stop difference.

I have the 7d and I really like it for i) lightness of touch, ii) 80% more pixels in good light, iii) better tracking. In addition it really is well sealed and controls dust...... Just a way better camera overall, but not much better on ISO. To get a dramatic improvment in ISO (5dii ISO 1800 until noise is same as 692 on your camera) you need to go ff or 1div (1320 ISO)

So don't buy a 7d for ISO, only buy it for the other reasons, like weather sealing and fps,

The 70-200 F2.8 IS mk1 is a great lens. I have it. A bit heavy but the f2.8 is worthwhile. However I don't use it much. I have a 100-400 that is longer in the day time when f2.8 is not needed and 200 with 1.4 is 280 f4 or 400 f5.6 with 2x and worse image quality than 100-400. My advice is buy the 100-400 if you are about animals and buy the 70-200 f2.8 if you are about shooting indoor or low light sports.

Scott

Feb 16, 2012 at 04:35 AM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #7 · Upgrading to a 7D

The closest EOS with significant high ISO improvement over your 450 is the 5D2. However, FPS is only slightly faster at 3.9FPS. But then you get a killer VF, FF, HD video, a wee bit more weather sealing and a much better center AF point.

Feb 16, 2012 at 04:41 AM

BrianO
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p.1 #8 · Upgrading to a 7D

Quanger wrote: If I opt to continue to invest in glass, the next lens would be a 70-200 F4 IS or 70-200 F2.8 IS mk1.

I got a 70-200 f/4 IS last month. I really wanted an f/2.8, but my dealer was out of the originals and I couldn't afford the Mark II.

I haven't used it a lot, but have done a bit including a paid job last night using my 7D, and since I was allowed to use flash I didn't greatly miss the extra stop a 2.8 would have given, and I can add a little more background blur in post if I need it. Still...

If you can afford and can find a 2.8 "mk1" that wold be what I would get.

Feb 16, 2012 at 04:59 AM

dwweiche
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p.1 #9 · Upgrading to a 7D

I went from a 450D to a 7D a couple of years ago. My reasons, ranked for priority, were:

1. New, better AF
2. 8 FPS
3. Ergonomics (450D too small for my hands)
4. Better ISO range (450D goes to ISO 1600 Max)
...
100. More MP

I use ISO's greater than 1600 enough on my 7D that I could not go back to 1600 Max. BUT, that's not the primary reason I switched.

Feb 16, 2012 at 06:53 AM

msalvetti
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p.1 #10 · Upgrading to a 7D

I think the question of high ISO improvement kind of depends on how high you're talking about. The 450D is rated about the same as the 40D in high ISO. I replaced a 40D with a 7D, and I find the improvement in high ISO significant.

I think that's because I spend a lot of time at ISO3200 and above. With the 40D, once you get to ISO3200, your next jump is to 6400. With the 7D, you can also select ISO4000 and ISO5000.

The 7D gives me cleaner images and much better high ISO AF in AI Servo in these conditions than the 40D ever could. More importantly, there are times I can shoot with the 7D when I probably wouldn't have even bothered taking my old 40D out of the bag.

If you are shooting at ISO1600 or below, and you're not shooting fast action, then the gains of the 7D are probably less important.

Edit: I didn't realize the 450D only when to ISO1600. So if you need to shoot above that on a regular basis, then obviously you'll gain a lot from a newer body. Maybe the 60D if you'd like to save some money over the 7D.

But I'm also thinking that the 7DII may be quite a bit more expensive - it seems to me that the new 7D needs to fill the gap below the 1Dx for the photographers that don't want FF, and I think Canon said they were killing the 1.3x cameras. So I don't think it would be crazy for the 7DII to have a better sensor, stay at 18mp, and maybe have the old 1-Series AF. For maybe $2500. You may not like the price of the 7D replacement.

Mark

Feb 16, 2012 at 06:53 AM

saneproduction
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p.1 #11 · Upgrading to a 7D

Too late in the 7D life cycle to pick one up if you don't need to upgrade. If you do get one, go used! I suspect less than a stop of improved high ISO performance (1600 now acceptable, 3200 now top "usable" ISO) your results may vary. I prefer to keep the 7D under 3200 and the 5D II under 6400 (they are about 1 stop apart at high ISO .. And I try to keep them a stop lower).

Feb 16, 2012 at 07:19 AM

Kisutch
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p.1 #12 · Upgrading to a 7D

I went 400D to 7D. I can't see a big difference in IQ, and strangely, I like the color a lot better on the 400D files compared to the 7D files--not sure what's going on there.

The big difference is the AF and FPS/buffer. I had a lot of issues with the 400D buffer filling up on me, locking the camera right when things were getting good--some really painful moments. 7D also has wireless flash control, but it drives me nuts, and you can get a set of radio triggers for <$100. However, if you like autoflash, the wireless control could be a big perk.

It's late in the cycle for 7D, but on the plus side that should save you some cash, they were $1700 new, and I've seen refurbs for much less. Good luck.

Feb 16, 2012 at 06:02 PM

drbob
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p.1 #13 · Upgrading to a 7D

Decision may depend on what you typically shoot. With which features of the 450D are you bumping into limitations besides ISO? Sounds like ISO may not be significant to upgrade by itself. I bought a 7D a year ago mostly as an upgrade to a 20D... ISO capability and focusing for sports were the primary advantages. I probably don't need 18 mp, and I don't need video.

bb

Feb 16, 2012 at 06:25 PM

Giancarlo D
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p.1 #14 · Upgrading to a 7D

B&H and best Buy were recently selling the 7d (body only) for 1,345. I checked back today and it went back up to 1,599 with the rebate.

I have a T2i and am currently thinking about this upgrade as well. Good to hear everybody's opinion.

Feb 16, 2012 at 06:33 PM

Jay Adeff
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p.1 #15 · Upgrading to a 7D

I use pro bodies for my photography work, but I have a 450D (XSi) for personal use on vacations and such. I compared the 450D to a friend's 7D, and considering only image quality, I really was not impressed by the 7D. Yes, the files are a little larger. But at 800 ISO and higher, I felt that the noise reduction in the 7D really obliterates any resolution advantage over the 450D. I guess if you want all the newer features of the 7D, it's hard to argue. But if you want a 7D for high ISO improvement, I don't think it's worth it. I'd use the money to start buying better full frame lenses and eventually upgrade to a full frame or 1.3 crop body (1D series).

And between the 70-200 f4 IS and the 70-200 2.8L IS (original version), definitely go for the f4 version. It's much sharper, lighter, and has superior IS.

Feb 17, 2012 at 01:00 AM

Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #16 · Upgrading to a 7D

Jay Adeff wrote:
I use pro bodies for my photography work, but I have a 450D (XSi) for personal use on vacations and such. I compared the 450D to a friend's 7D, and considering only image quality, I really was not impressed by the 7D. Yes, the files are a little larger. But at 800 ISO and higher, I felt that the noise reduction in the 7D really obliterates any resolution advantage over the 450D. I guess if you want all the newer features of the 7D, it's hard to argue. But if you want a 7D for high ISO improvement, I don't think it's worth it. I'd use the money to start buying better full frame lenses and eventually upgrade to a full frame or 1.3 crop body (1D series).

And between the 70-200 f4 IS and the 70-200 2.8L IS (original version), definitely go for the f4 version. It's much sharper, lighter, and has superior IS.

Did you compare The files like for like or did you hit the dreaded 100% button?
I've had multiple crop bodies from canon 350D, 30D, 450D, 40D 1d2n, 50D 7D .

I would rate the for iq : 7D m2n, 450D,50D, 40D 350D&30D (tie)
Fact is they were all very close when viewing the images at sensible levels. IE either printed or the full image on screen.
But the 7D is head and shoulders above the others for the total package. AF , ease of use etc. the m2n beats it for AF (only just though) but looses out on the controls front. Also the m2n I find the files need much more work to get just right.
For user experience I would put the above in order : 7D , m2n , 40D&50D (tie) 30D, 450D, 350D

Never having owned a ff body I can't compare but I do know the 7D is by far the best canon crop camera . ( unless you count the 1D4 but that's much higher money)
I

Feb 17, 2012 at 01:15 AM

learyt
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p.1 #17 · Upgrading to a 7D

I agree with many here in saying that you should seriously consider the 7D for all the other features besides the slight bump in high ISO noise improvement. The difference in shear usability is immense. Having not read the entire thread, I don't know if you've had a chance to use semi-pro/pro bodies but that's reason in itself to upgrade. To be able to quickly spin through shutter speed, aperture and ISO just by feel, three custom settings on the mode dial, top lcd, rear wheel, 100% VF, customizable buttons (love using the DOF preview button to toggle back and forth between one shot and servo), probably 2-3 times longer battery life, etc. Tons of good reasons besides ISO improvement.

Feb 17, 2012 at 02:11 AM

Quanger
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p.1 #18 · Upgrading to a 7D

Thanks for all the informative response. It looks like I am going to hold off a bit. The ISO performance beyond 1600 doesn't seem to justify the jump at this point. When looking at dxomark, is it fair to compare canon and nikon models? It seems like the nikon models score quite a bit better than its direct competitor ie. d7000 vs 60d, D5100 vs 600D

What I am looking for in my next body upgrade:
1. better ISO 1600 performance (I find the 450D's 1600iso barely usable unless I shoot RAW)
2. faster continuous shooting speed (at least 6fps)
3. remote flash control

Things such as better water seal, better and larger build, video and articulating screen does not really impact my style of shooting. I find a rebel body with a grip is good enough to handle even larger lens like my 17-55.

Feb 17, 2012 at 06:49 AM

Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #19 · Upgrading to a 7D

Quanger wrote:
Thanks for all the informative response. It looks like I am going to hold off a bit. The ISO performance beyond 1600 doesn't seem to justify the jump at this point. When looking at dxomark, is it fair to compare canon and nikon models? It seems like the nikon models score quite a bit better than its direct competitor ie. d7000 vs 60d, D5100 vs 600D

What I am looking for in my next body upgrade:
1. better ISO 1600 performance (I find the 450D's 1600iso barely usable unless I shoot RAW)
2. faster continuous shooting speed (at least 6fps)
3. remote flash control

Things such as better water seal, better and larger build, video and articulating screen does not really impact my style of shooting. I find a rebel body with a grip is good enough to handle even larger lens like my 17-55.

OK
1: the hi ISO performance is perfectly acceptable. 1600 ISO is no issue on the 7D . just look at the actual image and not the 100% . also yes you should shoot RAW as this offers you more options later. LR3 does a great job with the files and LR4 will do even better.

2: Higer FPS is one thing but so is a Longer buffer. again I only shot RAW and the Buffer Depth on the 450D was the worst thing (only 5-6 frames) . the 7D has a good depth. I would like to be able to turn the FPS down a little bit though. 8FPS seems great but there are times when you just dont want or need it. but the lower 3 fps is not quite enough. a setting of 5 would be great

3: Master flash. Ive not used it yet but it does look like a good option on the 7D . But there are issues with it. even when you dont want the popup to be part of the expossure it seems that its to slow and does actually appear in the frame .but there are ways around it.

other things I like about the 7D .
1: The zone AF
2; Spot AF
3: Being able to assign functions to other buutons. very handy . was given the great hint a while back of assigning the DOF button the quick spot AF function . BRILLIANT i use the DOF so little that its alomost pointless for me. but now it has this function its great. whatever AF mode your in a quick hold of the DOF button gives me a single spot AF point.
4: MA . very handy .

as for the alternatives.
a 5D2 would not be a choice for me. a 2nd body yes but not alone.

Nikons D7k got alot (and still gets a bit) of praise. but it seems like quite a few early lovers have started to fall a bit out of love with it. Small RAW buffer and not so great AF (yes loads of points but slower) seem to be a few issues.

D700 & D300 . for me this pair could be a viable option. the hi iso of the D700 is the best . I could not have just the D700 as 12mp FF would not be enough reach some times.
the deal breaker on that front for me is the lack of a viable 100-400 alternative (80-400 is just to slow for AF)

By my thinking the 7D could be around for another year . the 5D2 will be replaced before it . would I buy a new one. probably not (they're not a bargain over here) but at a good price on the used market it is a very good camera.
Having owned what I have before and now owning the 7D , would I buy anything else. NO . at least I wouldnt buy any other crop camera .

Feb 17, 2012 at 09:02 AM

sifpandor
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p.1 #20 · Upgrading to a 7D

If you do get a 7D, take a look at Adorama for a Canon refurb. That's where I got mine, and I've been really happy with it. The aswesome thing about a Canon refurb is that Canon completely goes over the camera to make sure everything is working within spec., which isn't something that happens of the production line.

I typically shoot at 1600 on my 7D with no worries about noise. There is some noise there, but one pass in Lightroom 3 and it cleans up well enough for me.

-- Mark

Feb 17, 2012 at 01:08 PM

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