Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

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Archive 2012 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

fraga
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p.5 #1 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

Chris Beaumont wrote:
fraga wrote:
Why are people comparing a $6800 12FPS 18MP camera to a $3000 4FPS 36MP camera is beyond me...

Can't speak for other people, but for me, it's interesting to see whether the case stacks up, I'm a Canon shooter, but I want a full-frame camera that does ISO6400 and has more than one AF point, at the moment (and putting aside that a 5D replacement surely is imminent) the only option in Canon is the 1Dx, for $6800.

Nikon has just released a $3000 camera that meets this (you would have thought fairly basic) specification, and a lot of people are interested to see whether 36MP really does ruin noise/dynamic range performance enough to make it pointless.

If the rumours of a 22MP 5DIII prove to be true, I really think Canon have done a masterstroke, I know Nikon shooters may have been asking for more than the 12MP of a D700, but I don't think anyone was saying that 21 just isn't enough, we need DOUBLE that (nearly) and by going for a megapixel willy waving contest, I think Nikon may well lose this round.

I understand what you are saying.
I guess we have to wait for the 5dMIII. It should be around the corner.

I hope you understood that my point was that Nikon has the D4, a camera with similar MP, FPS and price to the 1Dx.
It's a direct competitor. Both are aimed at exactly the same audience and have very similar specifications, including price.
Nikon has released samples from the D4, yet some people prefer to compare the 1Dx to the D800. And they do it in terms of noise.
So I get the impression that in some cases (not yours) it looks like they are trying to defend canon as hard as they can.
The D800 is not about low light shooting, as it is not a low noise camera. It was never intended to be one and I made my previous post because the D800 is being criticized by many (again, not your case) in that area.
It's like comparing a pick-up truck to a sports car and complaining the pick-up does not go around corners as well as the sports car...
Well, it was never meant to!

I could also say, from the samples released from both manufacturers, that the D4 will trounce and truly annihilate the 1Dx in terms of IQ (not specifically noise).
But I would never say something like that, because available samples are all jpgs!
I have no idea of how much processing the jpgs were subjected to.
I have seen some truly incredible samples from the D4, but I am 100% sure they were manipulated with PP.
And just like I stated one or two days ago, canon has a lousy track record for series 1 pre-release samples (i.e. they are usually awful), so, IMHO, at the moment, even direct comparisons between the D4 and 1Dx are somewhat futile.
There are just too many variables between the samples and they can be (very) misleading...

Having said all that, I understand all this is due to the fact that people are eager to find out how the next generation of cameras will perform.
I admit to being a gear-head myself.
I just believe the D800 is being harshly criticized by some, and in an unjustly way.

You know, Chris, I wonder if canon releases a 5DMIII with +30MP in a few weeks, how will the canon fanboys/D800 detractors excuse it's noise performance?

Feb 10, 2012 at 03:00 PM

PhilDrinkwater
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p.5 #2 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

What I think is interesting is that Nikon seem to have almost OVER corrected. They've obviously been taking stick for the past 3 years that their camera is just too low res, but as someone above said, I don't think it *needed* to be 36mp.

If they've dropped the ball on image quality (and there are question marks) by a massive over reaction and they don't have another camera in the 18MP-22MP range which solves that problem, they could be in trouble.

It depends whether the 36MP camera has good enough quality or if it can be set to sRAW and that keeps quality high.

Time will tell...

Feb 10, 2012 at 03:46 PM

Chris Beaumont
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p.5 #3 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

@fraga - just to put in a counterpoint, the D700 WAS a great high ISO camera, the D800 is 3 years of fast-moving technology later, should it not be better?

Maybe I'm wrong and despite not needing 36MP for 99% of the people 99% of the time, people will still buy it in droves, but it feels like Nikon might have shot themselves in the foot chasing headline figures.

Feb 10, 2012 at 04:21 PM

adrianb
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p.5 #4 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

Ralph Conway wrote:
Yes. But what does that mean? 5D IIs exceeded 1Ds MK III IQ, too.

Are you taking "5D mark II CRACK" ?

Ralph Conway wrote:
If nothing else. D800 does the opposite, imo (exceeds everything but IQ). But this is comparing a new, just announced not available Camera with a 5 year old flagship.

What flagship? the flagship of WHAT? 5D II is the flagship of obsessed fanboys perhaps

Ralph Conway wrote:
That those specs are overcome in the last half decade does not make a prosumer body a pro camera. Still D3x is. D4 will be.
That of course does not mean, that you can not use it for pro shooting.

Since the D3x a 'pro camera', is the D3 a pro camera as well? Because , last I recall ...5D II is a pro camera and D3 from nikon is NOT (according to your statements).

How come a fast accurate weather sealed camera like the D3 is not a pro one,and the 5D II is?

Ralph Conway wrote:
1D X is for pro shooter, who earn money with jobs that confront them with special needs.
D800 is for ambitioned hobby shooters and semipros/pros with needs, different from those.

A body is not PRO according to who uses it, but by its FEATURES....

If Johnny X is a pro photographer (whatever that means) and he earns money with photography, that doesn't mean that if he shoots with a 40D, the 40D is a pro camera.

In my opinion true pro bodies are D3, D3X, D3S,D4, 1Ds I, II, III, 1D II, III, IV, 1DX

Feb 10, 2012 at 04:28 PM

Ripolini
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p.5 #5 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

fraga wrote:
... my point was that Nikon has the D4, a camera with similar MP, FPS and price to the 1Dx.
This is my point too.

fraga wrote:
Both are aimed at exactly the same audience and have very similar specifications, including price.
Exactly

fraga wrote:Nikon has released samples from the D4, yet some people prefer to compare the 1Dx to the D800. And they do it in terms of noise.
And this is a nonsense. One should compare the signal-to-noise ratio and the amount of details that can be resolved at high ISO. Anyway, a 4 fps 36 Mpix camera can't be compared fairly to a 10+ fps 16-18 Mpix DSLR.

fraga wrote:So I get the impression that in some cases (not yours) it looks like they are trying to defend canon as hard as they can.
Same impression here

Canon morons should compare the noise of the D800 to 7D ...

fraga wrote:
There are just too many variables between the samples and they can be (very) misleading...
Agreed.

Feb 10, 2012 at 04:31 PM

mttran
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p.5 #6 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

Ripolini wrote:
fraga wrote:
... my point was that Nikon has the D4, a camera with similar MP, FPS and price to the 1Dx.
This is my point too.

fraga wrote:
Both are aimed at exactly the same audience and have very similar specifications, including price.
Exactly

fraga wrote:Nikon has released samples from the D4, yet some people prefer to compare the 1Dx to the D800. And they do it in terms of noise.
And this is a nonsense. One should compare the signal-to-noise ratio and the amount of details that can be resolved at high ISO. Anyway, a 4 fps 36 Mpix camera can't be compared fairly to a 10+ fps 16-18 Mpix DSLR.

fraga wrote:So I get the impression that in some cases (not yours) it looks like they are trying to defend canon as hard as they can.
Same impression here

Canon morons should compare the noise of the D800 to 7D ...

fraga wrote:
There are just too many variables between the samples and they can be (very) misleading...
Agreed.

+1

Feb 10, 2012 at 04:35 PM

Ripolini
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p.5 #7 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

Chris Beaumont wrote:
...the D700 WAS a great high ISO camera, the D800 is 3 years of fast-moving technology later, should it not be better?
Forgive me, but "better" means nothing. The body has been improved (100 % viewfinder, for example, or double card slots, live-view selector, etc). The D800 sensor is "different" and aimed to different tasks. Anyway, I don't think we can compare a 36 Mpix 24x36 camera to medium format (MF). We shouldn't forget that a MF camera has its own advantages due to optical reasons (you use longer lenses to frame the same area: distant tiny details are therefore reproduced larger; this is an advantage in landscape photography) and due to diffraction (the same number of Mpix implies larger photo-sites). However, D800's high-ISO samples look good when downsized to 12 Mpix. Most likely high-ISO native (in-camera) 4608 x 3056 jpegs will have similar noise and more detail than 12 Mpix D700 jpegs.
We will see.

Feb 10, 2012 at 04:48 PM

RyanFlynn
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p.5 #8 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

Where are the D4 to 1DX comparisons? You know, the apples to apples type, not the apples to oranges one?

Feb 10, 2012 at 06:59 PM

M Lucca
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p.5 #9 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

I think the initial d800 hoopla is dying down. More and more thread topics questioning the D800 36MP specs in relation to high ISO capabilities and photographic techniques.

I'm beginning to think maybe Nikon over reacted with the 36MP sensor. Now it's either you buy a d4 which is not cheap or get a D800 with a uber-MP count but with inferior ISO vs. D700/d3s that's saddle with 4fps. Don't forget to upgrade one's laptop/computer too. Not forgetting Nikon needs to upgrade its Nikkor line-up to handle the high resolution too.

Canon you diabolical company you!

Feb 10, 2012 at 07:59 PM

Chris Beaumont
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p.5 #10 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

M Lucca wrote:
I'm beginning to think maybe Nikon over reacted with the 36MP sensor.

Agreed, but if Canon blinks and releases a high MP one too......

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:01 PM

kewlcanon
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p.5 #11 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

.

M Lucca wrote:
I think the initial d800 hoopla is dying down. More and more thread topics questioning the D800 36MP specs in relation to high ISO capabilities and photographic techniques.

I'm beginning to think maybe Nikon over reacted with the 36MP sensor. Now it's either you buy a d4 which is not cheap or get a D800 with a uber-MP count but with inferior ISO vs. D700/d3s that's saddle with 4fps. Don't forget to upgrade one's laptop/computer too. Not forgetting Nikon needs to upgrade its Nikkor line-up to handle the high resolution too.

Canon you diabolical company you!

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:02 PM

snapsy
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p.5 #12 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

M Lucca wrote:
I think the initial d800 hoopla is dying down. More and more thread topics questioning the D800 36MP specs in relation to high ISO capabilities and photographic techniques.

I'm beginning to think maybe Nikon over reacted with the 36MP sensor. Now it's either you buy a d4 which is not cheap or get a D800 with a uber-MP count but with inferior ISO vs. D700/d3s that's saddle with 4fps. Don't forget to upgrade one's laptop/computer too. Not forgetting Nikon needs to upgrade its Nikkor line-up to handle the high resolution too.

Canon you diabolical company you!

If the D7000 sensor wasn't an overreaction why would the D800 be, considering they likely share the same pixel design and thus have the same per-pixel noise? That would give the D800 just over 1 stop advantage over the D7000 and just above the D700/D3, while not even accounting for the extra detail the D800 would provide, including at those higher ISOs.

Was the 7D an overreaction, considering its pixel pitch equates to a 46MP FF sensor?

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:13 PM

fraga
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p.5 #13 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

M Lucca wrote:
More and more thread topics questioning the D800 36MP specs in relation to high ISO capabilities

Why

Why

The D800 was never intended to be a high iso/low noise camera!!!

It's not a sports car, it's a bloody pick up truck!

Why do people expect it to have low noise at high iso?
It "only" goes to ISO 6400 for a reason!

People did not complain about he D3X noise at high iso at 24MP, why do they do it with the D800?
The D3x only went to 1600!!! With 24MP! And it could be expanded to "only" 6400 maximum!

The D800 tops at 6400 NATIVE and can be expanded to 25.600!

The D4, on the other hand, not only goes way up to 12800 native but can be expanded to an insane 204.800!

The D800 IS NOT a high iso camera!

In face of these facts, why people are complaining is truly beyond me...

I can, however, understand if people complain that they would prefer something in the line of a D700 with a D4 sensor, that is to say an affordable camera with high iso capabilities. Which the D800 is definitely not.
But that is a whole different story.

And as it seems, rumors says that it's exactly what canon is planning on doing...
If they in fact do it (release two cameras, a very high MP camera and a 5D-style camera with the 1Dx sensor) then it will very, very well played on their part...

Edited on Feb 10, 2012 at 08:28 PM · View previous versions

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:17 PM

artsupreme
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p.5 #14 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

M Lucca wrote:
More and more thread topics questioning the D800 36MP specs in relation to high ISO capabilities and photographic techniques.

Last time I checked most landscape shooters don't shoot in the dark. And Nikon has plenty of alternatives if high ISO is your thing...

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:22 PM

artsupreme
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p.5 #15 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

fraga wrote:

I can, however, understand if people complain that they would prefer something in the line of a D700 with a D4 sensor, that is to say an affordable camera with high iso capabilities.
But that is a whole different story.

I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't already in the works...

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:29 PM

safcraft
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p.5 #16 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

Luis, i believe people tend to compare the D800 to the 5D/5D2/5D3.
The 5D and 5D2 were (still are!) High ISO kings in their time, despite being high MPx (again in their time).

IF the canon version (5D-3 or X) can deliver same per pixel noise and increase 21 to 32/36 it will be king again. Just as happened with 5D to 5D2. I believe that even with a "so so" AF it will be King.

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:30 PM

M Lucca
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p.5 #17 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

fraga wrote:
Why

Why

The D800 was never intended to be a high iso/low noise camera!!!

It's not a sports car, it's a bloody pick up truck!

Why do people expect it to have low noise at high iso?
It "only" goes to ISO 6400 for a reason!

People did not complain about he D3X noise at high iso at 24MP, why do they do it with the D800?
The D3x only went to 1600!!! With 24MP! And it could be expanded to "only" 6400 maximum!

The D800 tops at 6400 NATIVE and can be expanded to 25.600!

The D4, on the other hand, not only goes way up to 12800 native but can be expanded to an insane 204.800!

The D800 IS NOT a high iso camera!

Hey don't get mad at me! I didn't start those threads. Just pop over to Nikon forum next door! They have moved on from Stage I - Denial to Stage II - Anger now.
Expecting Stage III - Bargaining next week. Threads like "If you can change one thing in a D800 what will it be" or "If only the D800 has 24mp with 6fps and improved AF" to start showing up.

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:43 PM

pookipichu
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p.5 #18 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

I have to laugh at the people who are only obsessed with high ISO. In addition to 35mm, I use Medium Format and the noise characteristics at ISO 1600 are 1000 times worse than Canon or Nikon.

There ARE people who don't shoot at ISO 25600. There are people who rarely shoot above ISO 100. Most dMF shooters are not pushing their sensors past base ISO. ISO 400 MAYBE. And 1FPS. Not 10FPS. Not even 4FPS.

Sooooo, is the D800 attractive at $3K vs. $10K for a P45 back. YES YES YES

Would I rather buy a 36MP 1DS4, totally, switching systems is a pain. But I don't see anything in the pipeline for Canon and it's just taking too long with no good reason. I have no doubt they have the funds and tech to release a 1DS4 and opted not to. One size (1DX) does not fit all professionals or people wouldn't even be having this debate. Not everybody needs a speed demon or shoots in the dark and not everybody needs 36MP.

artsupreme wrote:
M Lucca wrote:
More and more thread topics questioning the D800 36MP specs in relation to high ISO capabilities and photographic techniques.

Last time I checked most landscape shooters don't shoot in the dark. And Nikon has plenty of alternatives if high ISO is your thing...

Feb 10, 2012 at 08:48 PM

PhilDrinkwater
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p.5 #19 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

pookipichu wrote:
Sooooo, is the D800 attractive at $3K vs. $10K for a P45 back. YES YES YES

This is the a great example of "mega pixels isn't everything". Comparing a D800 with a P45 back is missing the point. They're completely different animals with different characteristics. The D800 will NOT approach the quality of a medium format back or even give you quite the same look.

That's not to take away from the D800 - I'm sure it'll be a great camera.

*edit* I notice you use medium format. I'm surprised to see your comment..

Feb 10, 2012 at 09:13 PM

adrianb
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p.5 #20 · Nikon D800 Vs Canon 1Dx image quality [ very funny ]

Comparing dMF characteristics with 35mm dSLR is .............

How can one compare fps rate and iso of dMF with fps and iso from modern dslr?

Feb 10, 2012 at 09:32 PM

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