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Archive 2012 · Canon 1D-x

DmitriM
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p.2 #1 · Canon 1D-x

Ralph Conway wrote:
This is a right sentence: The best lense is nothing without a body. And right too:
Their are already fantastic bodies out there. And it is possible to make fantastic pictures with your cellphone, too.
But we all are free to decide what whe want. Or need (for whatever). What we can and want to spend our money for.

I saw your amazng pictures, Dimitri. And I would like to do a journey like you did. I would do it with my 5DMK II, my 50 1.4 and 100 L. And I am sure I would do great pictures.
But I do not think if I would use a 1D X and a 70-300, a 50 1.2, a 24-70, a 70-200 2.8/4.0 IS and/or a 70-300 L IS my pictures would not be even better, I would get not more in focus keepers I would not enhance the result.
Usable ISO 25k gives you more freedom and flexibility than ISO 6.400. What one is able to make out of it is a different question, yes. I saw an exhibition of pictures doene with a Leica and that guy sweared on it. There was not one picture I felt worth to show to anybody. But he is happy with Leica. Great. People who are happy do not create wars.

Even if I can do my job (photographer) with my gear. I think it is time, to switch to even better gear, that lets me feel more comfortable. At least: If 7D II will not be FF and it (or 5D III) will not offer ISO 25K I will switch to 1D X this year. And I guess that will be enough till that body breaks. Yes, it is the price of a great used car. But I do not need a car. I share one with my lady). And it is not that easy to do pictures, like mine or yours with a used car.

You are a great photographer Dimitri. You mentioned yourself:
"Even 2 of my DSLR cameras did not survive the trip…"
How much you had with you? How much of them where 30 or 50 Ds? I guess each of them was more expensive than I ever spend in any used car I drove ... :-)

If my camera breaks today, I would get a new one within days. And I am sure it would not be any one, but the best I can purchase. For now it would be a 5D II again as a bridge (and that is cheap now). End of the year it would be its follow up or if there is no or it does not ISO 25K it would be a 1D X, of course.

Ralph

My first Africa trip in 07 was with 10Ds. with 50-500 Sigma plus a $300 Tamron(or Sigma)24-135 lens. Many shots were sold to galleries,magazines and private collections.
10D was a great camera right up to ISO 800. AF wasn't that good,but I would always take an extra image or 2 to make sure at least 1 of them is in focus. It worked well.

This time it was 5DII with 70-200 2.8L +24L I used 70-200 for 80% of the work there as people don't like to be close to the camera.

5DII gives you a good AF during daylight with the center point. 21mp allows you to crop well.
Photography is all about the light. At ISO 25000 there's basically none of it...so I personally would not use it.

Now, I don't' know if the cameras died because it was "their time" or because of the extreme heat,dust and weather changes there.
Since I got them in 2008, I've shot at -35C and at plus 49C at pouring rain(outside for hours with no rain covers) and extreme dust. They handled it well for years.

Feb 02, 2012 at 05:53 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #2 · Canon 1D-x

I agree. This is like a Hi-Fi buff spending six-figures on a sound system and then buying cheap speaker cables. ANY SYSTEM IS ONLY AS GOOD AS ITS WEAKEST LINK.

And Joshua is right ... it's none of our freaking business how anyone wants to spend his or her money.

NikkorAIS wrote:
It's always amazed me that the camera has always been minimized in the photographic chain. I have used used many of the finest lenes ever made for 35 mm photography in Nikon Canon Leica, Pentax. . I can say that bodies do matter. Batteries matter, buffer matter's, . ... . everything matter's in the image chain. And the fact is without the body the finest lens is sadly lacking photographically speaking.

Especailly if your needing AF and high frame rate and good high ISO . From the spec's the 1Dx is without equal.
And the fact is there is nothing in the Canon line up right now in the 24-36 format that even comes close to what the 1Dx promises.

And I agree it's none of anybodys business what anyone else chooses to spend there money on.
So what it cost as much as a car. So what?

From the spec's I think what Canon wants for 1Dx is more than fair.

Gregory

Feb 02, 2012 at 06:01 PM

Ralph Conway
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p.2 #3 · Canon 1D-x

@ Dimitri:

So you just used a couple of bodies of the best stuff available in IQ. And two broke during the trip. 70-200 2.8 L imo was not necessary. 4.0 would have done the same job. A 24 L would not have been necessary, too. You might have taken the same pictures with a 24-105, right? And instead of the 5D IIs 30 and 40Ds would have been enough (when we shoot perfect, we do not need crop freedom).

Do not misunderstand me. I love your pictures. What you see and capture is extraordinary.
But you shot with the best equipment available and you tell others they do not need, because they can shoot the same with any stuff. I am sure, you can do fantastic pictures with any stuff. Like I did (60D - one step behind your D10) for years (90% of the portraits on my website where done with it and an Sigma 105).
But when my old gear broke after 3,5 years in 2005 and a 350D gave my for same amount of repair better IQ, AF, higher resolution and fps, I was flashed and bought THAT!
I exchanged it for a 30D and that for a 50D and that again for a 5D MK II.
Cause 1: better to best IQ in higher ISO
Cause II: resolution that was good enough for A1 fashion posters
Cause III: 350D was to small for my hands
Cause IV: It became difficult to charge my customers € 500 a shooting or 1000 a day using the same 350D, they presented their wifes for christmas

Great gear does not make better photographers. Better gear of course gives great photographers more freedom and opportunities. Why else you work with 5D IIs?
On your blog you say you do not shoot more than 25 weddings a year starting at 4.500.
You really want to tell me that you will not have one of the first 1D Xs available. They are perfect for weddings.

Feb 02, 2012 at 06:23 PM

adrianb
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p.2 #4 · Canon 1D-x

DmitriM wrote:
I mean, I understand photography is a hobby for 98% of all of you,but COOOOME ON!
You can buy a car for that price. And you can't really be so naive to think it will make you a better photographer in any way.
I understand if you are a photographer,making 100K+ a year from photography,but spending 7grand on a camera that won't do ANY difference in the work that YOU do is a bit immature.

Save your money, buy some lenses instead or spend it on advertisements or/and branding so that you can make more money with the gear you already have.

You aced it.

+1

Feb 02, 2012 at 06:36 PM

adrianb
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p.2 #5 · Canon 1D-x

Ralph Conway wrote:
@ Dimitri:

So you just used a couple of bodies of the best stuff available in IQ. And two broke during the trip. 70-200 2.8 L imo was not necessary. 4.0 would have done the same job. A 24 L would not have been necessary, too. You might have taken the same pictures with a 24-105, right? And instead of the 5D IIs 30 and 40Ds would have been enough (when we shoot perfect, we do not need crop freedom).

Do not misunderstand me. I love your pictures. What you see and capture is extraordinary.
But you shot with the best equipment available and you tell others they do not need, because they can shoot the same with any stuff. I am sure, you can do fantastic pictures with any stuff. Like I did (60D - one step behind your D10) for years (90% of the portraits on my website where done with it and an Sigma 105).
But when my old gear broke after 3,5 years in 2005 and a 350D gave my for same amount of repair better IQ, AF, higher resolution and fps, I was flashed and bought THAT!
I exchanged it for a 30D and that for a 50D and that again for a 5D MK II.
Cause 1: better to best IQ in higher ISO
Cause II: resolution that was good enough for A1 fashion posters
Cause III: 350D was to small for my hands
Cause IV: It became difficult to charge my customers € 500 a shooting or 1000 a day using the same 350D, they presented their wifes for christmas

Great gear does not make better photographers. Better gear of course gives great photographers more freedom and opportunities. Why else you work with 5D IIs?
On your blog you say you do not shoot more than 25 weddings a year starting at 4.500.
You really want to tell me that you will not have one of the first 1D Xs available. They are perfect for weddings.

Dmitri is not referring to the decent idea of upgrade where one who has a 30D/40D would like to upgrade to a 5D/7D, or one who has a 50D/5D wants to upgrade to a 5D II.

He refers to those who already have a 5D/5DII/1DS II and L lenses and who think that getting a 1Dx will somehow unleash their creative potential. Which is pretty much false...

My jump from 30D to 5Dc was a huge leap forward........but the jump from 5Dc to 5D II is not that significant,with the lenses that I have now. I can honestly say that I could have done pretty much 75-80 % of the work with the 5Dc...

Spending 7000$ on a body make sense if you're earning your living out of photography (and doing well) or if you simply have that amount of cash to throw on a body purely out of passion for photography....

We're all passionate about photography but how many can swing that easily 7000$ for just a body... (for 7000 $ you can get a kit of 5DII or 1DS II + 35L + 85L + flash + 50 1.4 + etc or just 24-70 + 70-200 2.8 II etc etc with which you can earn money or take photos at a pro level (in a gear manner of speaking))

Feb 02, 2012 at 06:43 PM

campyone
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p.2 #6 · Canon 1D-x

arnold1 wrote:
nikey wrote:
Thanks for input guys. The store is reputable here in MA. http://www.huntsphotoandvideo.com/detail_page.cfm?ProductID=5253B002&cid=7&manufacturer=Canon
I was just surprise they have the actual price when BH does not list anything yet.

I would not worry about Hunts. I have dealt with them for many years and with my 5D II purchase, they got me one before any of the major outfits had them available. One draw back though is the tax--at 6.25% on a $6800 price, if that is the price, it adds another $425 to the price tag to buy it locally. But you can look at it, try it, and then buy it.

I know Hunt's is very reputable and has been around for a long time. But bricks-and-mortar camera stores have been dropping like flies lately. My understanding is that if a store files for bankruptcy while holding your deposit you're SOL, the deposit is just another asset of the business available for creditors to claim (someone who knows more about bankruptcy law than I do feel free to correct me if my understanding is wrong). The risk may be small but just the same, I wouldn't make a deposit of more than a very small fraction of the purchases price regardless of how reputable the seller might be.

Feb 02, 2012 at 06:52 PM

thedigitalbean
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p.2 #7 · Canon 1D-x

What if you use a credit card to make the deposit. You should be able to file a claim with the CC company if the store folds and fails to refund you the deposit.

Feb 02, 2012 at 06:53 PM

Ralph Conway
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p.2 #8 · Canon 1D-x

adrianb wrote:

Dmitri is not referring to the decent idea of upgrade where one who has a 30D/40D would like to upgrade to a 5D/7D, or one who has a 50D/5D wants to upgrade to a 5D II.

He refers to those who already have a 5D/5DII/1DS II and L lenses and who think that getting a 1Dx will somehow unleash their creative potential. Which is pretty much false...

My jump from 30D to 5Dc was a huge leap forward........but the jump from 5Dc to 5D II is not that significant,with the lenses that I have now. I can honestly say that I could have done pretty much 75-80 % of the work with the 5Dc...

I guess 75% of what I have to do would work pretty well with a 40D. But there are 25% that do not. Those are important. And it is a pleasure to be on the secure side without thinking if things work in the other 75%, too.

Spending 7000$ on a body make sense if you're earning your living out of photography (and doing well) or if you simply have that amount of cash to throw on a body purely out of passion for photography....

It makes sense for me as somebody, who has to make money from his gear. It is a question of calculation. I do seminars, too. And I often have visitors, that own gear 2, 3, up to fife times the amount of money I spend. Why not? If they like it and can afford it. Nobody needs to do a 5000€ yourney for three weeks on a cruiseliner. My mother does. She is 70 years old now and never spend money for her own pleasure all her life. Why should she not pay for that what she likes when she can?

Yes, more expensive gear does not make a bad photographer a good one automaticly. But I met bad photographers, who came to my seminars, because they found that out and they wanted to make better pictures with their gear. And some turned out to make impressive pictures within ten lessons. It was their hobby. But is a hobby for a person who works all day in a job less worth? If he wants to spend a huge amount of money for "pro" gear ... fine! WHY NOT?
Anyone believes a 5D MK II would be as cheap, as it is, when no hobby shooter would have bought it? Not me.

We're all passionate about photography but how many can swing that easily 7000$ for just a body... (for 7000 $ you can get a kit of 5DII or 1DS II + 35L + 85L + flash + 50 1.4 + etc or just 24-70 + 70-200 2.8 II etc etc with which you can earn money or take photos at a pro level (in a gear manner of speaking))

Feb 02, 2012 at 07:06 PM

adrianb
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p.2 #9 · Canon 1D-x

Ralph can you provide some examples as far as those 25% go? I mean..give some examples from those 75% which can be shot with the 40D and some examples from the 25% where the 40D fails or is inadequate.

I see people with gear 5x times more expensive than me all the time, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're better photographers than me...

For some, photo gear is like a car, something to show off or brag (sounds immature,but it's true)..

And the example with your mother doesn't quite serve the purpose here...because I think in life you should enjoy every moment,not plan the whole life for one final moment...

I'm not judging people for the gear they choose to buy....it's just that I believe that there should be a balance ..... and If I'd be starting photography now I don't think I'd go out and grab a 1DIV just because I can afford it (which I don't).. I can do fine with a 40D for starters...

Feb 02, 2012 at 07:23 PM

bobbytan
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p.2 #10 · Canon 1D-x

Pros (those who make a living in photography) and amateurs look at equipment very differently. Pros take a more practical and rational approach, as they see equipment as tools and they have to justify any piece of equipment that they buy. Amateurs and hobbyists, on the other hand, do not have to worry about ROI - they see equipment as just toys. Consequently a lot of gear heads and hobbyists with deep pockets will buy the latest and the greatest gear regardless of price! I have friends who own photography equipment that is worth close to $100,000 and have not sold a single image. And I see nothing wrong with that picture.

adrianb wrote:

Spending 7000$ on a body make sense if you're earning your living out of photography (and doing well) or if you simply have that amount of cash to throw on a body purely out of passion for photography....

We're all passionate about photography but how many can swing that easily 7000$ for just a body... (for 7000 $ you can get a kit of 5DII or 1DS II + 35L + 85L + flash + 50 1.4 + etc or just 24-70 + 70-200 2.8 II etc etc with which you can earn money or take photos at a pro level (in a gear manner of speaking))

Edited on Feb 02, 2012 at 07:58 PM · View previous versions

Feb 02, 2012 at 07:37 PM

DmitriM
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p.2 #11 · Canon 1D-x

Ralph Conway wrote:
@ Dimitri:

So you just used a couple of bodies of the best stuff available in IQ. And two broke during the trip. 70-200 2.8 L imo was not necessary. 4.0 would have done the same job. A 24 L would not have been necessary, too. You might have taken the same pictures with a 24-105, right? And instead of the 5D IIs 30 and 40Ds would have been enough (when we shoot perfect, we do not need crop freedom).

Do not misunderstand me. I love your pictures. What you see and capture is extraordinary.
But you shot with the best equipment available and you tell others they do not need, because they can shoot the same with any stuff. I am sure, you can do fantastic pictures with any stuff. Like I did (60D - one step behind your D10) for years (90% of the portraits on my website where done with it and an Sigma 105).
But when my old gear broke after 3,5 years in 2005 and a 350D gave my for same amount of repair better IQ, AF, higher resolution and fps, I was flashed and bought THAT!
I exchanged it for a 30D and that for a 50D and that again for a 5D MK II.
Cause 1: better to best IQ in higher ISO
Cause II: resolution that was good enough for A1 fashion posters
Cause III: 350D was to small for my hands
Cause IV: It became difficult to charge my customers € 500 a shooting or 1000 a day using the same 350D, they presented their wifes for christmas

Great gear does not make better photographers. Better gear of course gives great photographers more freedom and opportunities. Why else you work with 5D IIs?
On your blog you say you do not shoot more than 25 weddings a year starting at 4.500.
You really want to tell me that you will not have one of the first 1D Xs available. They are perfect for weddings.

The difference is,
I make money from my work. I run a full time business and can afford to buy any piece of equipment I desire.
I need high ISO and fast lenses because I shoot weddings in dark places.
Chances are, I can probably shoot with my 5DIIs for many more years without upgrading.

However, THE ONLY equipment I own are:
2 5DII bodies, 70-200L and 24L +2 flashes

That's why it was taken to Africa.Not because it was the best gear for the job.

Additionally, 70-200L @F4 is not the same. My 70-200 never seen anything past 2.8. 24L sees f4 only during group shots.

I jumped from 40D to 5DII and it was a really good choice

Cause IV: It became difficult to charge my customers € 500 a shooting or 1000 a day using the same 350D, they presented their wifes for Christmas
You have to give yourself more confidence and credit.
When I had 40D, I was charging 3-6K for weddings and often guests would come in with 1DIIs and 1DIIIs. I didn't care as I knew I was the one hired for the job and I knew my images would still be better because bride and groom hired me and not them.

I don't deny the fact that 1Dx is a better camera and may give you better results in certain conditions.
I just have doubts many people would be able to take it to the full potential.

Many people have a wrong idea that cameras and lenses make a big difference. That's why you always see" what camera did you use to take that shot?" questions.

I know a number of people who've upgraded to 1DIV when it came out. I believe NOT one of them said it made them a better photographer,when I asked them. Most said they did not see any difference, even though they expected it.

Feb 02, 2012 at 07:38 PM

Ralph Conway
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p.2 #12 · Canon 1D-x

@ adrianb:

Wedding ceremonie in a church. Shot without a flash at ISO 6.400 at a 30th second this is the 25%. Outside in the sunshine after is the 75%. I used a 40D at maximum ISO 1600. 3200 was worser Of course it comes better, too at same resolution with 5D II. But it would work (and worked) without any problem with the 40D.

Concerning my mother I would have wished sh would have been able to. She was/is not. I am happy today, that she does such things like a yourney on an cruiseliner.

You are not judging? That is good. Me neither. But I thing for starters a P&S for 79 $ would do a great job. If you come to the limits, a DSLR at about 350 € would do it (D1100 is a great piece of gear, if you want to start). I think when somebody believes he needs a $ 6.800 camera and he is able to buy it, he should be allowed to do it.

What car are you driving? Does another one for half the price not do it?
Who are we, when we decide, what would do it or do better for others?

It is good, that you think you do not need a 1D X. That safes you a lot of money you can spend elsewhere. But are you able to decide what is good or better for others?

If I would have 10.000 € over of my living, I would test a 1D X as soon as available. And if I decide it does what I want, I would purchase it. No matter if it brings me back anything. I would not do with a car, not with a PC, a TV or a sound system. I would do with a camera body. If I die tomorrow, I would prefere to remember how good it felt in my hands instead of wasting the lifetime I spend to earn the money that I did not use for a good feeling.

Feb 02, 2012 at 07:44 PM

Ralph Conway
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p.2 #13 · Canon 1D-x

DmitriM wrote:
Ralph Conway wrote:
@ Dimitri:

So you just used a couple of bodies of the best stuff available in IQ. And two broke during the trip. 70-200 2.8 L imo was not necessary. 4.0 would have done the same job. A 24 L would not have been necessary, too. You might have taken the same pictures with a 24-105, right? And instead of the 5D IIs 30 and 40Ds would have been enough (when we shoot perfect, we do not need crop freedom).

Do not misunderstand me. I love your pictures. What you see and capture is extraordinary.
But you shot with the best equipment available and you tell others they do not need, because they can shoot the same with any stuff. I am sure, you can do fantastic pictures with any stuff. Like I did (60D - one step behind your D10) for years (90% of the portraits on my website where done with it and an Sigma 105).
But when my old gear broke after 3,5 years in 2005 and a 350D gave my for same amount of repair better IQ, AF, higher resolution and fps, I was flashed and bought THAT!
I exchanged it for a 30D and that for a 50D and that again for a 5D MK II.
Cause 1: better to best IQ in higher ISO
Cause II: resolution that was good enough for A1 fashion posters
Cause III: 350D was to small for my hands
Cause IV: It became difficult to charge my customers € 500 a shooting or 1000 a day using the same 350D, they presented their wifes for christmas

Great gear does not make better photographers. Better gear of course gives great photographers more freedom and opportunities. Why else you work with 5D IIs?
On your blog you say you do not shoot more than 25 weddings a year starting at 4.500.
You really want to tell me that you will not have one of the first 1D Xs available. They are perfect for weddings.

The difference is,
I make money from my work. I run a full time business and can afford to buy any piece of equipment I desire.
I need high ISO and fast lenses because I shoot weddings in dark places.
Chances are, I can probably shoot with my 5DIIs for many more years without upgrading.

However, THE ONLY equipment I own are:
2 5DII bodies, 70-200L and 24L +2 flashes

Me: 1 5D MK II, 100 2.8 L, 50mm 1.4, one flash (and a 35-135 3.5-5.6 I purchased at ebay).
I can not afford any peace of equipment. And I think I do not need any. A 1D X, a 70-300 L and a 24-105 would be great.

That's why it was taken to Africa.Not because it was the best gear for the job.

Additionally, 70-200L @F4 is not the same. My 70-200 never seen anything past 2.8. 24L sees f4 only during group shots.

My 70-200 4.0 was enough for me. It very seldom saw a lower opening than 4.0 (if the border of 8000th forced me). I think it would have served you very good, too.

I jumped from 40D to 5DII and it was a really good choice

Yes, it was. I jumped up from 50D. It was good, too. There was nothing better on the market. That might change within some weeks. Why not jumping up a further step, than?

Cause IV: It became difficult to charge my customers € 500 a shooting or 1000 a day using the same 350D, they presented their wifes for Christmas

You have to give yourself more confidence and credit.
When I had 40D, I was charging 3-6K for weddings and often guests would come in with 1DIIs and 1DIIIs. I didn't care as I knew I was the one hired for the job and I knew my images would still be better because bride and groom hired me and not them.

I don't deny the fact that 1Dx is a better camera and may give you better results in certain conditions.
I just have doubts many people would be able to take it to the full potential.

Many people have a wrong idea that cameras and lenses make a big difference. That's why you always see" what camera did you use to take that shot?" questions.

I know a number of people who've upgraded to 1DIV when it came out. I believe NOT one of them said it made them a better photographer,when I asked them. Most said they did not see any difference, even though they expected it.

You are right. I have to give myself more confidence and credit. I never earned more than $2000 for a one day job. But I am learning, too. I do not want the 1D X for my confidence. I would like to have a body that works in ISO 25K conditions and gives me great results. If any else body does it, fine. For the necessity of gear to me check my profile, please.

Ralph

Feb 02, 2012 at 08:06 PM

Corojo
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p.2 #14 · Canon 1D-x

wait,wait,wait...got burned on early 1d3's...

Feb 03, 2012 at 01:48 AM

timbop
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p.2 #15 · Canon 1D-x

To those berating those wanting the 1dx: I'm curious why you think someone else has to justify spending their own money?

Feb 03, 2012 at 02:57 AM

Gary Petersen
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p.2 #16 · Canon 1D-x

Go for it. You know you want it.

Feb 03, 2012 at 03:11 AM

arnold1
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p.2 #17 · Canon 1D-x

Feb 03, 2012 at 05:45 AM

adrianb
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p.2 #18 · Canon 1D-x

I think some of you don't make the difference between discussing a fact (why some would by a 1DX) and judging.....

@timbop: I don't think anybody cares about other's justifications,it's just an open discussion.... as some express their wish to test/buy the 1Dx, we express our opinion on that.. it's freedom of speech..

Just because we don't agree on everything doesn't mean we're fighting or judging...

I would nevever EVER drop 6000$ on a camera unless 1) I made real money out of photography and having that body would considerably increase my keepers, make my work easier 2) I'm a wealthy gear-head

Feb 03, 2012 at 10:49 AM

Rav13
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p.2 #19 · Canon 1D-x

Exactly, it's like people buying Ferrari's, when almost any road car will get you from A to B (although alot slower).

I'm in the same situation, I am very fortunate that I can afford a 1Dx and am on the pre-order list, will it make me a better photographer? No, will I be able to make a lot more money? No.

But if I can afford it and like it i'll probably buy it, the only concern i've got at present is whether it'll be like the 1D III pt II. I may have to cancel the order and wait a couple of months

timbop wrote:
To those berating those wanting the 1dx: I'm curious why you think someone else has to justify spending their own money?

Feb 03, 2012 at 11:02 AM

adrianb
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p.2 #20 · Canon 1D-x

Rav13 wrote:
Exactly, it's like people buying Ferrari's, when almost any road car will get you from A to B (although alot slower).

I'm in the same situation, I am very fortunate that I can afford a 1Dx and am on the pre-order list, will it make me a better photographer? No, will I be able to make a lot more money? No.

But if I can afford it and like it i'll probably buy it, the only concern i've got at present is whether it'll be like the 1D III pt II. I may have to cancel the order and wait a couple of months

Your comparison with buying Ferrari is hardly relevant...

I can see people drifting away with the idea of whether one should/could buy a 1Dx...

Feb 03, 2012 at 11:19 AM

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