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Archive 2012 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models
  
 
rogerokelley
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p.1 #1 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


I own Canon and Nikon systems and truthfully I like both brand names. But I do wonder why Canon is slower than Nikon at releasing new models. Like a 7D replacement. I have always favored Canon at producing QUALITY instead of quanity......just wondering


Jan 22, 2012 at 01:39 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #2 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


I suppose it is simply a matter of perspective and certain models that might interest you.

The 7D, which you mention, has never had a equivalent Nikon model. Nikon never saw fit to produce a semi-pro crop with high quality processor and video. Yes, the 7D is in line for updating, but still, that category leads Nikon. Will there be a D400? When? Who knows?

There is give and take -- the D3s has had no direct challenge from Canon for its high ISO quality for stills and video, but it lags terribly in MP. The 1DX should answer that nicely. Then, what will the D4 do?

I'm glad these brands compete against each other so we get interesting products.



Jan 22, 2012 at 02:10 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #3 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


rogerokelley wrote:
...I do wonder why Canon is slower than Nikon at releasing new models. Like a 7D replacement.


I hope Canon doesn't release an update for the 7D any time soon.

I just got mine last month, and I like to think I have the latest and greatest APS-C camera for a bit longer.



Jan 22, 2012 at 02:41 AM
rogerokelley
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p.1 #4 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Gunzorro wrote:
I suppose it is simply a matter of perspective and certain models that might interest you.

The 7D, which you mention, has never had a equivalent Nikon model. Nikon never saw fit to produce a semi-pro crop with high quality processor and video. Yes, the 7D is in line for updating, but still, that category leads Nikon. Will there be a D400? When? Who knows?

There is give and take -- the D3s has had no direct challenge from Canon for its high ISO quality for stills and video, but it lags terribly in MP. The 1DX should answer that nicely.
...Show more


Gunzorro....... Well said !!!



Jan 22, 2012 at 03:07 AM
scalesusa
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p.1 #5 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


The Nikon D300S is Nikon's equivalent to the Canon 7D. The 7D pretty well killed D300S sales for Nikon.

We are still waiting for Nikon to match the 7D with a D400. Nikon needs a D400, the can't even sell the D300S in Japan, its in violation of battery safety laws passed in 2008! Same for the D700, no Japan sales since November.

The Nikon D3S and the Canon 1D MK IV were released about the same time, and now the D4 and the Canon D1X.



Jan 22, 2012 at 03:38 AM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #6 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


scalesusa said, "The Nikon D300S is Nikon's equivalent to the Canon 7D."

Sorry to beat this to death. . .

Not really. No video. No dual processors. No 18MP. Not the same level of weather sealing. There are more differences, but those are the main ones that come to mind.

Nikon basically abdicated the crop format pro gear, after championing it for years instead of developing FF cameras. Odd behavior, but that's a Nikon quirk.

It will be interesting to see if there is a D400 or D800 just around the corner.



Jan 22, 2012 at 06:48 AM
thedigitalbean
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p.1 #7 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


I wouldn't drink the Canon kool-aid too much. The D300s is in many ways a reasonable competitor to the 7D. The AF is more than capable of going toe to toe with the 7D and in a few cases even besting it (in my own experience particularly when it comes to tracking a fast moving subject against a busy background). I found the 7D's overall image quality to be better, granted. As for weather sealing, not sure there's much to separate the D300s and the 7D in that department.

Now back to the OP's question, your premise is flawed. Both companies seem to be refreshing their entry level cameras at a similar rate. Its been years since either company refreshed their pro lines. I don't see either one being slower or faster than the other.



Jan 22, 2012 at 06:57 AM
Bones74
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p.1 #8 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models




I hope Canon doesn't release an update for the 7D any time soon.

I just got mine last month, and I like to think I have the latest and greatest APS-C camera for a bit longer.

I understand your thinking, but I reckon an update is well overdue Digic 5 processor, improved high ISO performance and maybe a little refining of the AF system would do nicely! Thats all it needs to remain the premier crop body for a few more years.



Jan 22, 2012 at 02:06 PM
Bruce Sawle
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p.1 #9 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Gunzorro wrote:
scalesusa said, "The Nikon D300S is Nikon's equivalent to the Canon 7D."

Sorry to beat this to death. . .

Not really. No video. No dual processors. No 18MP. Not the same level of weather sealing. There are more differences, but those are the main ones that come to mind.

Nikon basically abdicated the crop format pro gear, after championing it for years instead of developing FF cameras. Odd behavior, but that's a Nikon quirk.

It will be interesting to see if there is a D400 or D800 just around the corner.



Sory to burst your bubble but the d300s does have video, better weather sealing, better focusing 51 compared to 21. Dual processors mean nothing as Nikon handles things differently then Canon. The only real difference is the MP.



Jan 22, 2012 at 04:09 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #10 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


I doubt any announcement will seriously affect sales of another brand. This is the "Department of TV Ads" in capturing the brand-new soccer moms and DWAC. (Dad with a camera) What newbie walks into the local store and is seriously concerned about 51 focus point compared to 49, or high ISO performance? How many are concerned about 11 fps over 6 fps? Dual card slots?

I started with an N60, and by the time I mastered that one, I knew (then just released) N80 was my choice. Didn't even consider Canon because I had 3 lenses in Nikon mount. Why switch?

By the time I bought the D70 (with yet another Nikon lens) I couldn't afford to switch brands without taking a serious financial and troublesome hit. I would have to sell a lot of lenses and bodies, and have to buy new. Nikon has plenty of models that do what I needd and do it well. Switching brands simply means a whole lot of expense, and not all of us have that kind of money to go switching platforms.

A 7D is competing more against other Canon models than it is any Nikon. The Nikon D300S is competing more against other Nikon bodies than against Canon. For most of us, the disruption changing caused would be more bother than we want to deal with.

The disruption caused by having to switch mounts is humongous. What if Nikon or Canon came out with a new mount, making all previous lenses incompatible with new bodies? How many of us would buy that new model? How many would wait until it became absolutely necessary to change? How many would just figure we're too old for this and just keep shooting with what we have until we die? Canon already did this, and created a HUGE selling point for old Nikon lenses.




Jan 22, 2012 at 05:53 PM
 

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RobertLynn
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p.1 #11 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Oh no they didn't release a camera like yesterday!@


Jan 22, 2012 at 07:13 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #12 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Bruce -- I'd forgotten that the "s" provided video -- 720 @ 24, compared to the 7D's 1080 @ 30 or 24, for the top respective quality levels.

I set the Kool-Aid aside to directly compare specs, and yes, the Nikon does provide moisture and dust prevention, but stops short of Canon's more pronounced claim in the line of weather sealing. Still, probably a wash.

And good as the 7D's AF is, I'll concede that Nikon's D300s might be better, even with less cross sensors. I would have to rely on those who've used both for an opinion on AF capabilities.

FPS is close with Nikon having 7, and Canon 8, so about 15% difference, not huge but could make or break the shot for fast action.

D-Lighting is cool, and 7D isn't in that league.

ISO -- Canon native 100-6400 (exp. 12,800), Nikon native 200-3200 (exp. 100 & 6400)

As we've discussed, the 7D has 18MP compared to D300s' 12.3MP, or 50% more capability.

There are other minor points that jockey back and forth, but I still don't think the improved D300 is really a direct challenge to the 7D, but it is an attempt to catch up in that direction. No doubt a new D400 would slaughter this aged 7D's stats, but it is yet to be seen what Canon's eventual upgrade will be.

As I said earlier, it is great to have these two companies duking-it-out to our benefit! And now Sony is a serious contender in DSLRs too.



Jan 22, 2012 at 07:22 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #13 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Gunzorro wrote:
Bruce -- I'd forgotten that the "s" provided video -- 720 @ 24, compared to the 7D's 1080 @ 30 or 24, for the top respective quality levels.

I set the Kool-Aid aside to directly compare specs, and yes, the Nikon does provide moisture and dust prevention, but stops short of Canon's more pronounced claim in the line of weather sealing. Still, probably a wash.

And good as the 7D's AF is, I'll concede that Nikon's D300s might be better, even with less cross sensors. I would have to rely on those who've used both for an opinion on AF
...Show more


only chiming in to say 7D beats D300s. I know this from experience. The only "flaw" in comparison is, I was using a 24-70 on a 7D, and the 17-55 on the D300s (I think that was the lens, it was their f/2.8 DX lens, and I used it during MMA photography).



Jan 22, 2012 at 07:44 PM
M Lucca
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p.1 #14 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Gunzorro wrote:
FPS is close with Nikon having 7, and Canon 8, so about 15% difference, not huge but could make or break the shot for fast action.



I think that's incorrect.

per dpreview of d300s continous mode :

With built-in battery: up to 6 fps
With AC adapter or MB-D10 pack and batteries other than EN-EL3e: up to 8 fps
12-bit RAW at full speed, 14-bit RAW only 2.5 fps

The d300s shoots at 12-bit in high burst vs. full 14-bit burst of the 7D. Actually to think about it, the 7D's data throughput dwarfs the d300s once you consider that 8fps are full 18MP 14-bit vs 6fps @12-bit in 12mp. And then it goes to a slower than a T2i burst in 14-bit. Ouch!

The burst depth is greater with the 7D as well.

The d300s is a non-contender. And the sales shows. Don't know if Nikon will come out with a d400 soon.




Jan 22, 2012 at 08:43 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #15 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Aw, darn! Here I was using the Nikon site specs.


Jan 22, 2012 at 11:00 PM
RobDickinson
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p.1 #16 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Canons 7D was a direct competitor to the D300.

D300s was a light refresh to bring it into line a little more.

I've a friend with a D300 and the 14bit raws are mostly superfluous , its (apart from a little noise and resolution) every bit as good a camera in real terms as the 7D.

Canon tho have had how many dslr's? 300d - 600D(7) 10d to 60d (6) 1000d+1100D(2), 7D(1),5d (2) 1D (5), 1Ds (3) 1Dx (1) and a couple of oddballs (7d studio thing , the old d30's etc)

I think thats enough...



Jan 22, 2012 at 11:16 PM
M Lucca
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p.1 #17 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


Always look at small fonts at the bottom accompanied with the * and white papers.

Nikon likes doing that. Did the same with their D2x many years ago. Citing some specs on ads and marketing literature. Conveniently ignoring the fact that it is at reduced image size etc....



Jan 23, 2012 at 01:09 AM
S Dilworth
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p.1 #18 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


M Lucca wrote:
per dpreview of d300s continous mode :

With built-in battery: up to 6 fps
With AC adapter or MB-D10 pack and batteries other than EN-EL3e: up to 8 fps
12-bit RAW at full speed, 14-bit RAW only 2.5 fps


DPReview's specs are better than most sites but still often wrong, particularly for cameras that are updates of earlier models. The D300 did 6 frames per second, so I guess that's a copy-and-paste mistake from the D300 review.

The measurements a few pages later say 7.1 fps without the grip, which matches Nikon's claim of 7 fps (though on that page DPReview makes another mistake, saying the initial frame rate is 8.0 fps; presumably that's copied and pasted from the 7D review published a few days previously).

The D300S does 8 fps with the battery grip. Nikon has always been very conservative with power and battery considerations. Canon says the 7D and even the new EOS-1D X are only assured to meet their top frame rates with a battery capacity over 50%. Nikon limits the speed of the D300S without grip to avoid that kind of restriction. (Clearly you could argue Canon took the better path here, but you might equally argue the added complexity confuses users.)

You're right to note the speed of the D300S falls dramatically in 14-bit mode. (The shutter lag also increases perceptibly.) I understand this is because Nikon coaxes 14 bits out of the 12-bit sensor by reading it multiple times before resetting the pixels for the next shot. This marginally reduces read noise, giving the D300S a measurable dynamic-range advantage over the 7D at base ISO.

The 7D does have more pixels, but even in optimum conditions that doesn't buy you as much as you might hope. It would help landscape photographers with impeccable technical skills more than it helps event photographers.

The one area where the 7D clearly beats the D300S is high-ISO performance. Its sensor simply delivers a higher dynamic range (less shadow noise) above ISO 400, and by ISO 1600 the difference is pretty obvious.

Disclosure: I own a D300S. I generally like it, but it would benefit from a hard-nosed feature-removal program. The user manual runs to over 400 pages, which is faintly ridiculous for a camera.



Jan 23, 2012 at 02:01 PM
Tommy_D
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p.1 #19 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


The 50D and the 7D came out as a response to the D300 because the D300 trounced the 40D when they were both announced in 2007. Notice how the 50D came out 1 year after the 40D was released (the shortest amount of time between the XXD series camera releases). But the 50D still didn't deliver the goods when compared to the D300. It wasn't until late 2009 until Canon had a proper response with the 7D. They finally put a proper AF module in it, increased its fps to 8 to match the D300 with its battery grip, added a commander mode to the built in flash to control remote flashes like Nikon has had for years at this point, did full weather-sealing like the D300 has, and reworked the layout and controls to be more ergonomically friendly (like a Nikon camera).

Of course the video the 7D provided was the D300's shortcoming, so Nikon's response was to add crappy video to the D300s. Yeah, a pretty crappy upgrade if you ask me and probably why D300s sales are so much less than the 7D. It certainly didn't make current D300 owners want to upgrade like 50D owners wanted to do with the 7D release.

If I were the OP, I wouldn't complain about the lack of new Canon models. The 7D is only 2-3 years old where the D300 is 4-5 years old. I have had my D300 since January of 2008 and even with a potential D400 coming out, I am not saving my pennies to upgrade. The D300 does almost everything I need, and what it lacks I dont find so painful to deal with that I need to get a newer and better model.



Jan 23, 2012 at 02:56 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #20 · Canon slower than Nikon at releasing new models


With mention of the D2x above -- it's kind of sad that this was the last professional DX camera from Nikon. The D3 was a great idea, but I can't help but miss their pro crop cameras. I suppose they made the right choice, as Canon hasn't ever had a pro crop model. Only APS-H.


Jan 23, 2012 at 05:09 PM
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