p.2 #2 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Gimme a nice FF NEX-type camera + small useful primes like 35 f/1.8, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8 lenses and I'm on. But such a product is not in the market yet...
p.2 #3 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
The real fun with the mirrorless comes in the ability to use just about any lens. The Sony and m4/3 mount are very versatile and you can now even use EF lens on the NEX.
I don't want one so it will fit in a pocket, but if you want to be discreet, using a pancake with one of the range finder style bodies is a great option with excellent IQ. And even if the combo isn't pocketable it's still a fair bit smaller and lighter than even an entry level DSLR.
Now looking at the latest samples from the Fuji X Pro 1, the noise is amazingly low. ISO 1600 is essentially noise free and ISO 12800 looks very good.
I'm not giving up my 5D II anytime soon, but I see a place for these cameras and they are getting better and better. The main problem is the market is still in a rapid development curve and is soon to joined by Pentax, leaving Canon as the sole company without a CSC.
p.2 #4 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Another reason for the mirrorless cameras might be that, without it, a camera is simpler, quieter, and a bit faster, with (perhaps) fewer things to break. But what is a DSLR without the R?
p.2 #5 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Like others here, I have a DSLR system (5D II plus 5 Zeiss lenses), but also a mirrorless (NEX 5N plus kit zoom and 5 primes). The beauty of the NEX is that I can stuff it in a Billingham bag including the primes, with a notepad and an iPad, and attend any business meeting with no-one any the wiser. That (low weight, compact and stealthy package) lets me bring the NEX litterally everywhere I go, something I could never do with my DSLR, even a smaller Rebel. I now also carry a minuscule Manfrotto tripod, so that I can handle sunrise and twilight shots. IQ wise, the 5N packs the same sensor as the Pentax K-5 and Nikon D7000, so IQ with top rangefinder lenses is great.
p.2 #6 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Daan B wrote:
What is with this obsession of people wanting to put their cameras into their pockets
Because it's nice to always have a camera with you, and it's also nice to not have to always carry a DSLR.
p.2 #7 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Call me bad, but I purchased a J-1 kit as I wanted a camera with me at all times but did not want the hassle of bringing one of my Canon's with me. Yes it has a small sensor with a crop factor of 2.7 but it does have great quality. I can carry it in my pocket. The sensor is larger than a regular point and shoot but not as big as the ones you mention. All the others like the Sony are really too big and pointless as I might as well just carry a Canon. To get an idea of the image quality then you can visit https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1071542
p.2 #8 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
photoomaha wrote:
dgdg, that is exactly one of main concerns. You say the files are great under 800. I feel like there is always a 'compromise' with the mirrorless stuff. I can easily shoot all day at 1600 with the rebel, and if I switch to black and white, wouldn't hesitate using 3200. I also really like, and am very comfortable, looking thru a viewfinder. Maybe I am old fashioned! (at 41). I just have a really hard time shooting with the LCD. The panasonic with the pancake 20mm does look like a good small package. I just get really frustrated with trying to deal with all the different menus, and hiccups of these systems. Good discussion!...Show more →
Noise control on the E-P3 at 800, 1600 and 3200 is pretty close to my 7D but not nearly as good as my 5D2. If it wasn't for the weird 4/3 aspect ratio I'd be hard pressed to pick out a 7D file from a EP-3.
p.2 #10 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
photoomaha wrote:
So, I have been thinking about all this and have decided, why not just throw a 24mm 2.8 on a Rebel T1I that I already own? The high iso is great. It makes it a small, light camera. I know the software very well. Autofocus works great. It honestly isn't that much bigger than what is coming out from the alternative crowd. And I just saved about $1000.00 by not buying anything!
I hope this helps some folks that are in the same situation. I have been enjoying shooting with this setup quite a bit. Your thoughts?
I've used both a micro four thirds system and a Canon DSLR. While I don't feel like I'm fighting the micro four thirds, I'll admit the menu system isn't very refined and the camera is only barely configurable to my own needs. It is also hard to capture anything action and it's really only useful for simple portraiture where everyone is standing still. Finally the post-production involved, it takes about twice as long of me to me to make all the fine adjustments, etc. to produce a photo from the micro four thirds relative to the Canon. Skin tones are a little bit 'off', perhaps a bit more yellow than they should be.
So honestly, I'm still using the DSLR 90% of the time. There is a significant difference in weight and bulk, very welcome in my case, but that's the only real advantage of the micro four thirds. I've seen some of the other mirrorless systems out there (Sony, Nikon, etc.) but none of them interested me due to a general lack of lenses (ie. no good portrait lens).
p.2 #12 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
I was an early adopter of MFT back a couple of years ago. I like the system they are putting together but frankly I'm disappointed with the lack of progress sensor wise (the latest MFT cameras aren't much better than their earlier brethren).
p.2 #13 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
thedigitalbean wrote:
I was an early adopter of MFT back a couple of years ago. I like the system they are putting together but frankly I'm disappointed with the lack of progress sensor wise (the latest MFT cameras aren't much better than their earlier brethren).
Probably because the intended market is to entice the masses of iPhone and P&S shooters, not downgrade a small minority of pros and serious amateurs. The Fuji X01 Pro and Sony NEX-7 are probably the most serous attempts at challenging at least some segments of the DSLR market.
p.2 #14 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
I find myself conflicted.
I tried a Panasonic G1 a few years back,
but found my self comparing the IQ with my DSLR
Also realized I would end up getting another set of lenses
Then I got a T2i to go with my FF.
The size was fine, especially with the kit lens or a nifty-fifty.
The video is pretty decent
It was great for those quick grab shots of my granddaughter
and in a fanny-pack on a bike ride.
But I found the noise perf not quite what I wanted.
Also was carrying the "other lenses with it.
I always ended up bringing the big camera on any other shoot.
So I sold the T2i
Now I have a 5DMkII to go along with my 1DsMkII.
Hmm, so now I have two FF and nothing small....
So I have been perusing CL & the B/S forum for a GF2 with kit-again.
I thought about the x100, but its quirkyness would end up bothering me.
Also, the have sticky aperature-blade issues on some & Fuji is not
good about fixing for 2nd owners.
Now along comes the G1X.
IF the IQ holds up, the fixed lens might be a benefit since
I won't be tempted to get more lenses for it.
But the Sony NEX series has some great features IQ....
Maybe could just adapt a few cheap primes plus the Sony kit...
p.2 #15 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Dan,
This is exactly some of the issues I have been trying to deal with! I have almost completely given up on a small, take everywhere camera and just use my iphone for the that role. I have been using the rebel as a 'stop-gap' for now.
Jan 19, 2012 at 09:22 PM
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p.2 #16 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
artd wrote:
Because it's nice to always have a camera with you, and it's also nice to not have to always carry a DSLR.
p.2 #17 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Gochugogi wrote:
Noise control on the E-P3 at 800, 1600 and 3200 is pretty close to my 7D but not nearly as good as my 5D2. If it wasn't for the weird 4/3 aspect ratio I'd be hard pressed to pick out a 7D file from a EP-3.
So you are saying m4/3 is as good as NEX for noise!
p.2 #18 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Pixel Perfect wrote:
So you are saying m4/3 is as good as NEX for noise!
No, I wrote that my EP-3 is close to my 7D in terms of noise control. I've not owned or tried nEX or other 4/3 cameras and thus have no experience with them.
p.2 #19 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
gdanmitchell wrote:
Your points about the Fuji have been made by others. Some absolutely love the form factor, the single focal length lens, the external controls... but there have been widespread acknowledgements that the menu system isn't so swell. (This is the sort of thing that I was alluding to when I made my comment in the previous paragraph about how these cameras will evolve.)
Good user interfaces don't "evolve", they have to be designed in from the start. Canon and Leica do that, but I haven't seen anything I personally would accept from any other major camera maker in the digital era. Both companies bought design expertise in, with the T-90 and R9 respectively.
(Interestingly, Leica's UI design for their slide projectors copped a pasting in one of the seminal books on user interface design. I wouldn't be surprised if their fanatical attention to UI design was a result of someone in the company long ago reading that book.)
Both Canon and Leica have good commercial reasons not to introduce mirrorless cameras to compete with their expensive SLRs. Perhaps Leica will do something for the M mount. There appears to be a culture at most Japanese companies which is antithetical to good user interface design; I dread hiring an unfamiliar Japanese car. And therefore I don't expect any of the current big makers to create a good mirrorless design.
Mirrorless is certainly a disruptive technology, and a new entrant with a culture of good user interface design could well take a large share of the professional camera market if the technical problems (principally the lack of wide-gamut displays) are solved. Samsung comes to mind as a company with deep pockets that makes products with good user interfaces.
Jan 20, 2012 at 03:05 AM
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p.2 #20 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
artd wrote:
Because it's nice to always have a camera with you, and it's also nice to not have to always carry a DSLR.
My wife has a NEX-3 kit for a year and carries it with her in her handbag. The image quality is awesome - better than my old 30D for sure, and I feel that it's limited more by the lack of good lenses (we only have a kit lens). Now she does not need a dedicated photographer when she's out on certain assignments (interviews). That means she doesn't get to use me all that often anymore but no big deal as the money stays in the family anyways.
Would she be carrying a DSLR with even a prime lens like that? I highly doubt that.
I tried carrying my 1D Mark II N with a "kit" lens all the time. It takes a large plastic bag (so as to not attract attention), and overall, doesn't work. Sometimes I've been lucky to catch something when I was carrying my setup with me, sometimes not. A couple of times I've been borrowing my wife's NEX but that's not sustainable. I've borrowed my aunt's P&S for one trip and it was only really decent at ISO 80-100. So a mirrorless body with a lens or two is probably in order. Probably a NEX-7 so that I'm able to share lenses with my wife.
