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Archive 2011 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)
  
 
mach250
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


I'm looking at two of canons camcorders, Canon Vixia HF G10 and Canon Vixia HF S30, and was hoping to find opinions or first hand experience with both (maybe even first hand experience with both?)

The G10 has most of my attention with its wider lens, I don't think I would be doing too much long distance stuff but I could get the Canon - TL-H58 1.5x and deal with some green/magenta around the edges of the screen. S30 drops about $500 so thats appealing.

They both offer manual focusing, shoes for a mic or light, same storage and recording times. Dont care about photo quality since I'd have my D700 with me anyways. The G10 offers slightly more low light capability (.1 vs .3 for the S30 with a 1/2 shutter speed) with the larger sensor.


Not sure if this good here or not but I'd really like some helpful input on the matter, don't have a store around me that has them for me to look at in person. Thanks

edit:

How would the 7D and 5dMK2 compare to the G10? I may or may not decide to sell my D700 kit...



Dec 28, 2011 at 11:20 AM
A.Y.
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


The two Canon camcorders mentioned record in the older AVCHD 1 format with 1080 60i, 30p (recorded in 60i progressive segmented frame format), and 24p.

You should look at the latest AVCHD 2 cameras or camcorders from Sony and Panasonic with 1080 60p, 60i, 30p, and 24p frame rates. BTW, I have no doubt that Canon will introduce some AVCHD 2 camcorders in the near future.

Keep in mind that eventually all cameras and camcorders will be able to record in 1080 60p frame rate so unless you are a filmmakers and there's a high likelihood your videos will be converted to film and projected by 24 frame per second old-school film projectors in theaters, it's highly recommended that you look at a camera or camcorder capable of 1080 60p video.



Dec 28, 2011 at 04:09 PM
Alanu
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


I've researched the higher consumer end camcorders and the more I read the more I feel the HF G10 suites my needs. Alot of people are quite satisfied with the Phantom powered DM-100 canon mic used with the G10.

It appears the 1/3 sensor in the HF g10 is remarkable in low light performance due to the higher dynamic range.

I can purchase a xa10 (same camera but with IR and XLR connections) for $1649.

My problem is I'm jumping on a 16-35L UWA and 100L iS macro instead a camcorder at this present time.

For the price range of the higher end consumer camcorders for my application I think the G10 is one of the best bangs for the buck.



Dec 28, 2011 at 04:55 PM
mach250
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


I plan on using this or family videos 95% of the time. Will I notice anything negative panning quickly to keep up with children at 24fps?


Dec 28, 2011 at 08:12 PM
A.Y.
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


mach250 wrote:
I plan on using this or family videos 95% of the time. Will I notice anything negative panning quickly to keep up with children at 24fps?


I strongly strongly recommend not recording precious children videos in the choppy 24p frame rate. View the sample videos below on a computer fast enough to handle 1080 60p and you'll clearly see why.

1080 24p, 30p, and 720 60p samples 1080 24p is choppy and even 1080 30p appears a little choppy under bright sunlight because of the fast shutter speed used. 720 60p is much smoother, but lack 1080 details.

1080 60p samples 1080 60p has both smoothness and details. View the original .MTS videos with VLC (or other) AVCHD player for best results.

On my Intel i3 to i7 computers and HDTV, 1080 60p appears absolutely silky smooth. However, on my older Intel core-2-duo computer, 60p appears choppy. For precious home videos, this shouldn't matter because most (if not all) of the latest computers should already be able to handle 1080 60p without problem.



Dec 28, 2011 at 11:01 PM
tuantran
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


You can get the M41, M40 and M400 at steep discount now. I think Canon is coming out with something new soon.

They use the came chip as the G10. For low light videos, these are the way to go. Right now, the M400 is $330 which means you'll save $$$. With that money saved, you can buy another camcorder now or later.

BTW, people in this forum seems to have endless money.



Dec 28, 2011 at 11:58 PM
 

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Dave_EP
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


ok - so here is my answer to your almost exact same question on the Nikon forum regarding D7000 vs G10


We shoot a mixture of DSLRs (5D2, 7D, 60D & 550D) and Camcorders commercially. We even have one of the Canon G10s the OP is asking about. I've just returned from a shoot this evening and while we used the G10 in good light, in poor light the G10 will never be 'better quality' than a larger DSLR style sensor. The noise above 6db / 9db becomes unacceptable very quickly. Having said that, 9db is equal to around ISO2000.

They are different tools for different jobs. DSLR for low light and shallow DOF footage. Camcorder for AF and good (deep) depth of field when needed.

The G10 is an awesome camera for it's price. The image stabilization is about as good, if not better than anything I've played with and combined with a little help from After Effects (such as the Warp Stabilizer) we can shoot almost anything hand held with it instead of needing expensive and cumbersome steadicam rigs.

However, the G10 suffers from two problems (IMO), the first is that it lacks time code (not a big deal for many people) and the image is far too saturated. We have the saturation turned down to -2 (as far as it will go) but often still need a further reduction (to around 80%) to match with our other camcorders (XF-100 and XF-300).

Being a 1/3" sensor, it has awesome depth of field, and by that I mean you can get a LOT in focus, which is often important. While many people want the holy grail of shallow DOF, sometimes you need to get more than a few inches in focus (i.e. both Bride & Groom at the same time!) and with the G10 this is possible, whereas with a DSLR it's much harder because you can't stop down far enough without increasing the ISO to unreasonable levels.

Noise on the G10 is acceptable up to around 3db, with 6db normally needing some noise reduction (e.g. Neat Video) for commercial use, and I'm happy to go to about 9db when needed.

Auto mode adds lots of noise reduction AND saturation which tends to make it 'look' less noisy, but in the end you also lose detail.

Also, while the dual cards can be used in parallel (write the same to both cards) or sequentially (fill one card then fill the next one), if you ever switch to Auto mode it disables it and never re-enables it when you go back to manual. *really annoying!)

So, tonight we put the G10 back in the bag and kept shooting with XF100 (essentially the same lens, sensor and electronics - but different software) and DSLRs. The DSLR footage is worlds apart because it's a lot cleaner than the video footage.

Video cameras can 'look' higher quality in good light, but in lower light I know which one I'd want

I'd take the G10 over the S30 every time - in fact I just wouldn't bother with the S30 if you can afford the G10.

Audio is of course another matter. G10 is better than DSLR most of the time, but then we rarely use the audio from either.

-- Canon Specific --
The 5D2 & 7D coupled with good glass blow the G10 out of the water in low light - but the G10 can look amazing in good light.

DSLRs with cheap consumer glass are blown away by the G10.

Now what?

What EXACTLY are you planning to shoot with the G10 ?



Dec 29, 2011 at 12:29 AM
mach250
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


A.Y. wrote:
I strongly strongly recommend not recording precious children videos in the choppy 24p frame rate. View the sample videos below on a computer fast enough to handle 1080 60p and you'll clearly see why.

1080 24p, 30p, and 720 60p samples 1080 24p is choppy and even 1080 30p appears a little choppy under bright sunlight because of the fast shutter speed used. 720 60p is much smoother, but lack 1080 details.

1080 60p samples 1080 60p has both smoothness and details. View the original .MTS videos with VLC (or other) AVCHD player for best results.

On my Intel i3 to i7 computers
...Show more


On this note I'm looking at the Sony Nex5N, but have been out of the crop sensor game for a while. Is the crop factor 1.5x? Think with my old 40D it was 1.3 crop...just trying to figure out with the lens lineup will look like.

In your opinions what 1080p 60fps camcorders would be worth looking at but also avoiding >$1300ish?

Sony Nex5N Body $599.99
50f/1.8 $299.99 low light, would love to be able to afford 24 f/1.8 for $999.99
Possibly 16mm f/2.8 $199.99
throw in the 55-210 for $349.99 and be just around the Canon G10 camcorders price at $1449.96 with tons of better options. Also would need the external mic, but I'd test the built in's capabilities first...prob not good for longer distances with the 210 range


Will probably be a dedicated family video machine and I've got two sons that I'd like to capture as much quality as possible...



Dec 29, 2011 at 12:03 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


On this note I'm looking at the Sony Nex5N, but have been out of the crop sensor game for a while. Is the crop factor 1.5x? Think with my old 40D it was 1.3 crop...just trying to figure out with the lens lineup will look like.

Just to clarify the DSLR crop factors.
The nex range is 1.5x crop as are all other Sony crop bodies (a900/a850 are ff) . In fact all crop bodies from Nikon, Sony, Pentax, and Samsung are 1.5 crop.
Your old 40D like all other (non 1. Series) canon crop bodies are 1.6x crop. The crop 1 series are 1.3x.

Olympus and Panasonic are 2x crop and the new Nikon 1 is 2.7x (I think)

The only other odd ball about there is the Pentax Q which basically has a tiny p&s sensor .



Dec 29, 2011 at 12:34 PM
Dave_EP
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


mach250 wrote:
Will probably be a dedicated family video machine and I've got two sons that I'd like to capture as much quality as possible...


Keep your D700 for stills and get a G10. DSLR is not ideal for family video situations.



Dec 29, 2011 at 12:36 PM
mach250
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Not a SLR but they're Canons. (Camcorder Help)


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/717535-REG/Sony_NEX_VG10_NEX_VG10_Interchangeable_Lens_Handycam.html


Dec 29, 2011 at 01:59 PM





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