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Archive 2011 · Older FF and high ISO
  
 
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Older FF and high ISO


Ok I'm having thoughts about finding a older FF body . I currently have a 40D and a newly acquired 1Dmk2n both of which I find to be a bit ugly in H (3200) and not the best in 1600 iso . So seeing as I'm starting to see 5D bodies coming up for about £5-600 and have recently seen 1Ds2 bodies under £1000 I'm sort of wondering if one of these may be my next move.

Can anyone post some examples of either/both of these bodies at these higher iso ranges.


. Note that a 5D2 is way off radar as its still quite a bit more than either of the 2 bodies mentioned , although another 1 series would still mean I would keep the 40D so I would really lean much more toward the 5D



Dec 16, 2011 at 07:36 PM
misternikko
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Older FF and high ISO


im not much help with samples, but FWIW, i just came from a 40D>7D>T2i to finally a 5Dc and i gotta say...the difference in noise and cleanliness of files is dramatic. Ill never go back. Sorry I cant offer much more help than that since i only have a 5D now.


Dec 16, 2011 at 07:45 PM
reno.peterson
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Older FF and high ISO


Ian...You're killing me!!! I think you just need a couple of these upside that melon on your neck!!!

Nab the 5D and don't look back!!! I'd do the same but the whole shared battery thing kills me for that idea. I know the 1DII/DsII don't share a battery with the 7D either, I guess the 5DII is my route...

Samples? Really??



Dec 16, 2011 at 08:02 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Older FF and high ISO


I upgraded to a 5D from a 350D and i would have to say that the noise level is just amazing in comparison. At ISO's below 800 i often forget to turn on the LR noise reduction slider. It does lose some colour and detail at ISO 1600, but below that its amazing.

I had the chance a few years ago to play with a 1DsII for a day and the files from that were even better, and hold together amazingly with processing.

This is at ISO 800, though in relatively good light. No noise reduction in LR. With a bit of noise reduction it cleans up perfectly with very little detail loss:













Whilst doing a bit of research on the topic i happened across this, which might be of interest:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2010-08-03-5d2-7d-5d-d300/



Dec 16, 2011 at 08:03 PM
artsupreme
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Older FF and high ISO


5D is a no brainer and always will be until there is some sort of dramatic format change in DSLSR's.


Dec 16, 2011 at 08:14 PM
eosfun
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Older FF and high ISO


If you don't like the 1DmkIIn you won't like the 1DsmkII either. They share basically the same technology. Sensor size is different, but processor DIGIC II and sensor layering is the same. The 5D has a slightly different sensor but uses the same DIGIC processor. I have always found these cameras perform about the same. That being said: we are talking JPG files SOOC? Or RAW converted files? I prefer the latest for noise control. If a file of the 1DsmkII or 1DmkIIn is right exposed and well processed I can't imagine you'll find it really ugly.

A sample of a 1Ds mkII at 3200 ISO







and cropped, from Lightroom converted RAW with noise reduction off for the purpose of showing the levels of noise. Mind that normally I would have used some noise reduction for a subject with glass like this:







I find native noise performance really good. Only a very few more modern cameras perform better than this. Most cameras that do those superduper high ISO trick use some in-camera Photoshop hocus pocus magic that I find often give a too syntethic digital look.

Anyway, whatever you choose, a 5D or a 1DsmkII are both great pieces of EOSfun above what you currently have. Do not underestimate the effect of going full frame. Be prepared to change some of your lens setup. And yoú'll enjoy the looks of full frame images. No doubt, noise or not



Dec 16, 2011 at 08:40 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Older FF and high ISO


eosfun wrote:
If you don't like the 1DmkIIn you won't like the 1DsmkII either. They share basically the same technology. Sensor size is different, but processor DIGIC II and sensor layering is the same. The 5D has a slightly different sensor but uses the same DIGIC processor. I have always found these cameras perform about the same. That being said: we are talking JPG files SOOC? Or RAW converted files? I prefer the latest for noise control. If a file of the 1DsmkII or 1DmkIIn is right exposed and well processed I can't imagine you'll find it really ugly.

A sample of a
...Show more

Thanks, it's not that I find the 'n truly ugly it's just not quite as up there as I could be. Maybe I need to give it more pp in lr3 .
I always shoot raw (although I find the jpegs from the 'n very acceptable )

As far as changing my lens line up, my main lens is the 24-105 and my most loved is the MDP so I doubt I need to change much there anyway my tokina 12-24 would bit the bullet and most likely not be replaced for some time as I don't use it that much on the crop anyway.

My mind is pushing towar a 5d as although my heart says a 1Ds2 would be great I also know it means having 3 bodies (sometimes I want a smaller body) .

I guess I could sell the whole lot and buy a D700



Dec 16, 2011 at 09:04 PM
Jefferson
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Older FF and high ISO


Here's a couple ISO 400 to 640...5Dc... Canon 50 f/1.4, Canon 200 f/2.8L, and 70-200 f/4L IS, although I usually shoot the lowest ISO I can get with the aperture I want...

The last shot is ISO 1250...I dont think I used Post NR on it, don't remember.

I like my 5Dc...but then I like my 30D too

Jefferson





  Canon EOS 5D    EF200mm f/2.8L USM lens    200mm    f/2.8    1/200s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  






  Canon EOS 5D    EF70-200mm f/4L IS USM lens    150mm    f/4.5    1/15s    640 ISO    0.0 EV  






  Canon EOS 5D    EF70-200mm f/4L IS USM lens    183mm    f/4.5    1/25s    1250 ISO    0.0 EV  



Edited on Dec 16, 2011 at 09:23 PM · View previous versions



Dec 16, 2011 at 09:10 PM
Mescalamba
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Older FF and high ISO


D700 is over everything there (except D3s ofc). From older, I would get 5Dc probably.. its like weaker D700 (and you still got same resolution).


Dec 16, 2011 at 09:17 PM
eosfun
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Older FF and high ISO


Ok Ian, it sounds like you are well prepared for full frame. In that case you don't need to change your lens setup. The choice between the 5D and 1DsmkII is mainly a choice for body format and features. You know how the 1DsmkII body will perform since you have that 1DmkIIn already. The 5D is a nice travel camera and less intimidating. The resolution difference isn't very important in practice. Choose whatever you like best or need most. You can't go wrong with either.

A D700 is a great camera, it won't give you any EOSfun though



Dec 16, 2011 at 09:17 PM
 

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safcraft
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Older FF and high ISO


I understand your saying about the 2N, and maybe you suffer from the same constraints as i do.
I have the 5 and the 2N, they are not very different. The 5 has an advantage on resolution (i find it quite useful) and small advantage on noise performance at High ISO.

The problem with High ISO noise in any of them (more in the 2N) is poor light. A perfectly balanced with good light picture from the 2N, can be magnificent at 1600ISO. Same with the 5D, but it can go up to 3200 with good results.

My main issue is i only raise ISO when the light is weak and the lens is not fast enough. So my 1600 ISO pictures with any of them are 90% of the times, just so so. I use the MDP as you do, plus the 50 f1.4 when i have to.

I have a friend that shoots a 5D2, and he can get ISO 5000 pictures that look much better than my 1600 ones, mainly due to better exposure (more light sensitivity) and better high iso. This in the same poorly lit scenario.
So....just hold on for the 5D3....and buy a used 5D2



Dec 16, 2011 at 09:47 PM
reno.peterson
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Older FF and high ISO


Oh....You mean this sweet sled? Would have loved to have been able to fire this one up for a stroll up the boulevard!!! I'll search for the original and post it before any PP whatsoever. Also not too bad considering EV underexposed the shot also...And with the 24-105L IS @ F/4.5.




  Canon EOS 5D    EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM lens    28mm    f/4.5    1/30s    3200 ISO    -0.7 EV  




Dec 16, 2011 at 10:00 PM
jj_glos
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Older FF and high ISO


If you don't like the ISO 3200 on the 7D you're not going to find it drastically better on a 1Ds2 (if at all), I haven't anyway. I find it OK for my needs after NR though.


Dec 16, 2011 at 11:08 PM
Brit-007
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Older FF and high ISO


If you have a 7D then the 5D would be a great companion and actual leader of the two. There is one thing to be said for the 1Ds series in that the files will take a far greater pounding than from any other camera.

There is something about the 5D that is magical compared to the crop bodies. Having recently got a 1DsIII I am seeing the difference in the files. The 5D outputs 12.8 MP files and the 1DsII gives 16.7mp. The one dissadvantage to the 1 series is the weight. Although I always use the 5D with a grip, it is still lighter than the 1Ds.

The 7D is a great backup to the 5D although I have found the files are a little more saturated. I can mix and match in a shoot and come out with files looking the same.



Dec 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM
cputeq
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Older FF and high ISO


Here's one at ISO 800, 100% crop, I think the only NR I did was chroma in LR3. Stage lighting at 1/200s f/2.8 (both from 5D and 70-200 mark II)


ISO800 by J L Smith, on Flickr

Same scene, but ISO 1600, f/2.8 and 1/100 s

ISO1600 by J L Smith, on Flickr

(here's the above's final crop ratio)

_MG_0672 by J L Smith, on Flickr


Again, these are 100% crops (except #3 which is maybe 25% crop) with essentially zero luma NR and LR3's default 25 on chroma NR. Pretty darn good if you ask me, and the full photos print beautifully even after their crop.



Dec 16, 2011 at 11:36 PM
cputeq
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Older FF and high ISO


100% crop, ISO 3200 then pushed +0.3EV in LR3. Using LR3's default sharpening / noise settings.


ISOTest5D3200-1 by J L Smith, on Flickr

ISO 3200, f/3.2 1/80s



Dec 16, 2011 at 11:46 PM
redal
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Older FF and high ISO


I found the 1dsmk2 a nice step up from the 1dmk2n, and batteries are interchangeable.
I had the 5d with the 1dmk2n before I got the 1dsmk2, after having a number of 1 series cameras going to a 5d was pain, slow focus , and inaccurate outside the centre point, i never really felt comfortable with it .



Dec 17, 2011 at 08:13 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Older FF and high ISO


Something more from me, this time at ISO 3200 on the 5D. It was pretty dark - 1/125 sec at 50mm, f/1.6 - so i regard this as a reasonable test of the camera. File is Lightroom processed at default settings with no noise reduction (i.e. no PP at all). With a little touch of colour noise reduction and about 15-20% luminance noise reduction it cleans up really well. This was one of my first shots with the 5D and i was amazed at how good the high ISO is.














Dec 17, 2011 at 08:32 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Older FF and high ISO


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Ok I'm having thoughts about finding a older FF body . I currently have a 40D and a newly acquired 1Dmk2n both of which I find to be a bit ugly in H (3200) and not the best in 1600 iso . So seeing as I'm starting to see 5D bodies coming up for about £5-600 and have recently seen 1Ds2 bodies under £1000 I'm sort of wondering if one of these may be my next move.

Can anyone post some examples of either/both of these bodies at these higher iso ranges.

. Note that a 5D2 is way off radar
...Show more

The 5D MK II is about 1.5 stops better than the 5D. And its stioll the best IQ body of Canon up to date (Canon themselves said it´s IQ is over 1Ds MK III). 1DX is not available and when would be about 3times or more of 5D MK II. So I do not really understand your question, Ian. There is only one camer on world market available now that might be comparable or better - at half resolution. 3Ds that is not produced any longer and still is two times as expensive. How should I understand your question? 1Ds II used is at a comparable price - not at comparable IQ. If you would like to get a "1" and pro AF go for that 1Ds MK II. If you would like to get best possible IQ go for 5D MK II.

Ralph



Dec 17, 2011 at 08:53 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Older FF and high ISO


Ralph as you claim to be a "poor German that has to pay twice the cost " in the 28-80 there'd you will understand the reason for not getting a 5d2 . Over here it's still way over any budget I could ever think about. The only reason I thru the 1Ds2 in was a couple had started to come up at quite sensible prices (ie I saw one go for £800)
Any thought of Nikon is just a joke really . Nikon may be much better but it won't take my MDP skits not even a thought.

I think a 5D may be in order quite soon



Dec 17, 2011 at 09:11 PM
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