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Archive 2011 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices
  
 
HerbChong
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


i am surprised that no-one else has posted - http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/Competition_watchdog_fines_Nikon.html?cid=31769194

basically they're talking about Nikon's policies on gray market equipment.

Herb....



Dec 16, 2011 at 05:19 PM
Zebrabot
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


Did they run out of nazi gold to pay those inflated prices?


Dec 16, 2011 at 05:22 PM
gfinlayson
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


I fail to see what's uncompetitive here. Surely, Nikon has a right to restrict sales to only authorised distribution channels? That way, it can fully support the warranty obligations and not suffer reputational damage from warranty or service issues caused by non-authorised dealers.

Lots of manufacturers adopt the same policy worldwide.



Dec 16, 2011 at 11:54 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


gfinlayson wrote:
I fail to see what's uncompetitive here. Surely, Nikon has a right to restrict sales to only authorised distribution channels? That way, it can fully support the warranty obligations and not suffer reputational damage from warranty or service issues caused by non-authorised dealers.

Lots of manufacturers adopt the same policy worldwide.


That rationale seems tenuous considering that Nikon refuses to service grey market imports, warrantied or otherwise. At least that's the case in the USA.



Dec 17, 2011 at 12:14 AM
gfinlayson
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


snapsy wrote:
That rationale seems tenuous considering that Nikon refuses to service grey market imports, warrantied or otherwise. At least that's the case in the USA.


Not tenuous at all - Put yourself in their shoes. Would you want to offer servicing and warranty to your branded products if you had no control over how they got to a particular market, or who supplied/sold them? I know I wouldn't.



Dec 17, 2011 at 12:46 AM
RoyC
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


gfinlayson wrote:
I fail to see what's uncompetitive here..


Keep in mind this is in relation to Swiss laws, what ever they may be.





Dec 17, 2011 at 04:01 AM
fsiagian
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


I think it would be best if they (Nikon USA, I don't know about Nikon in other countries) would still service gray market/imported products for a fee. These are Nikon customers using Nikon products regardless where and how they got their equipments.


Dec 17, 2011 at 06:33 AM
nikt
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


I agree.
And to add, there should indeed be an added benefit for buying locally from an auth'd dealer. That is, that you should pay less to have your camera serviced in the event of it being out of warranty.

Or to put it another way. It should cost more to have it serviced if it's gray market.

This at least would allow the gray products , which are currently not serviced at all, to be fixed. That is in everyone's interest, in my opinion.



Dec 17, 2011 at 08:06 AM
pr4photos
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


They should do away with the gray market, and service the items regardless of where they were originally sold. In these days of international travel why should someone be penalised for buying a piece of equipment in a different country (maybe whilst on holiday) and come home to find that they don't have a warranty in their own country. Hardly fair - and I'm surprised it hasn't been outlawed. There is no need for it anymore. If its a question of sales tax, thats a government matter, if its the sales price, the manufacturers shouldn't be allowed have the fact that they sell items at different prices dependant on the country as an excuse.


Dec 17, 2011 at 09:36 AM
Bernie
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


In any gray (or black) market, you're not guaranteed as to the item's pedigree.

1) is it even a legitimate Nikon product?
2) has it been tampered with somewhere along the way? The sensor could have been swapped for an old one with hot pixels.
3) it may be a used camera
4) it could have fallen off a skid and been damaged
5) it could have been in a flood (how many of those might literally be floating around?)

And the list goes on. There are some similar issues with designer goods and pharmaceuticals. And especially don't forget the food we all eat...



Dec 17, 2011 at 06:46 PM
 

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irish-george
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


gfinlayson wrote:
Not tenuous at all - Put yourself in their shoes. Would you want to offer servicing and warranty to your branded products if you had no control over how they got to a particular market, or who supplied/sold them? I know I wouldn't.


Their shoes Nikon Japan 100% owns Nikon USA. Nikon USA throws a hissy fit if the products don't come through a second profit channel (Nikon USA). Sorry, all other distributors have the same parts stocking and repair staffing costs...so, it shouldn't be an issue, but Nikon USA wants it to be. If our government agencies hadn't been neutered by the previous administrations, this would not exist and neither would MAP (the NEW fair trade) pricing. I'm waiting for Nikon to pull the Concord watch trick (Concord vs Costco) and you won't be able to resell your used Nikon equipment, then you'll be crying...as it is, it is already a "risk" buying used since you don't know for sure who the importer was (not all Nikon USA equipment has serial numbers starting with "US").



Dec 17, 2011 at 07:00 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


Zebrabot wrote:
Did they run out of nazi gold to pay those inflated prices?


Do you have anything relevant and constructive to say, or do you just try to insert some weird and distorted political agenda into every thread you see?



Dec 17, 2011 at 07:22 PM
RCicala
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


I don't have much of a dog in the fight on gray market, but I expect in a few years you'll be seeing some class action cases about this in the U. S. It's not just that they won't do gray market repairs at their factory service centers but that they work very hard to prevent independent shops from being able to repair them either by limiting sales of parts and software to program cameras and lenses. (While Nikon is the only one refusing to repair gray market, they aren't the only company trying to make sure all repairs go to their factory service center.)

If you don't think parts sales from the factory are limited go look on eBay and see what "not working, just for parts" lenses and cameras bring. You'll notice certain lenses broken are worth a lot of money, the parts in them are worth that much. It's not home hobbyists that are needing those USM motors and VR units, not in that quantity.




Edited on Dec 18, 2011 at 12:50 PM · View previous versions



Dec 17, 2011 at 07:35 PM
nikt
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


It's the manufacturers fault for creating this problem by having different pricings for different countries AND different volumes.

This is what has led to the demise of the "services" sector. Where are the small stores gone?

This is what has also led to whole economies from going down the gurgler. In Australia, MOST big end camera sales are purchased from Hong Kong. That's just a fact no-one here wants to recognize.

A lot of that has to do with the Australian mindset these days. I'm always being reminded by our "lowest common denominator current affairs shows" how you should never buy from a retail store and how to "save hundreds" by buying gray market form the internet.

Can't really blame the consumer. Times have changed, it's an easier to deal with global market. The manufacturers are living in the past.

Canon, Nikon , Olympus. They're all the same though. They don't care were the camera is purchased as long as they sell a unit. And this isn't restricted to cameras.

On the occasion they try some piece meal fix... al la Switzerland... they cop a $13M fine.

Edited on Dec 18, 2011 at 05:22 AM · View previous versions



Dec 18, 2011 at 02:31 AM
Zebrabot
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
Do you have anything relevant and constructive to say, or do you just try to insert some weird and distorted political agenda into every thread you see?


Sorry, can you point out this "distorted political agenda" you seem to be seeing?



Dec 18, 2011 at 02:51 AM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


You know, if you really have to ask, then I doubt you'd admit to -- or even realize -- anything even if it were explained to you. But your comments are consistently politicized or strongly biased in some way, and often not even relevant to the thread in question. Obvious example in this very thread: what the heck does "Nazi gold" have to do with inflated prices, Nikon, this fine, this thread, or anything else for that matter?


Dec 18, 2011 at 05:05 PM
galenapass
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


Sheesh talk about the pot calling the kettle black. In 3 threads with your name as the last poster - Rodolfo Paiz - today, you are having trouble/disagreements with Zabrabot, Ralph Conway and you wrote that Imagemaster comes off "as an egomaniac".

You should monitor your own behavior before commenting on others.



Dec 18, 2011 at 05:56 PM
brubenstein
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


I have no idea what the laws are in Switzerland regarding anti-competitive practices compared to what they are here in the United States. Unless someone here is intimately versed in US and Swiss business laws and how they compare, this is a "who cares?" for anyone living in the US, or any other country that may have different business laws than Switzerland.


Dec 18, 2011 at 06:18 PM
Doo-bop
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


you might consider that Swiss shops source equipment from US stores. Street prices in the US are lower than in the EU. And street prices in the US are lower when they can buy large quantities


Dec 18, 2011 at 09:14 PM
HerbChong
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Nikon fined in Switzerland for anti-competitive practices


buying a camera in the country does not prevent any of the following.

Herb....

Bernie wrote:
In any gray (or black) market, you're not guaranteed as to the item's pedigree.

1) is it even a legitimate Nikon product?
2) has it been tampered with somewhere along the way? The sensor could have been swapped for an old one with hot pixels.
3) it may be a used camera
4) it could have fallen off a skid and been damaged
5) it could have been in a flood (how many of those might literally be floating around?)




Dec 19, 2011 at 04:15 PM
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