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Archive 2011 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare
  
 
mMontag
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


+1+2+3 - on the Marumi CPL's - I also have a B+W and have tried a few other top named brands, the Marumi is the best money spent IMO. B+W's saturate way too much especially bright snow scenes. With the exception of GND's, I always remove CPL filters when pointing into direct bright light.


Dec 13, 2011 at 02:52 AM
millsart
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


Jcolwell, did you have a polarizer attached when taking those example photos you posted, and if so, what if any effect did it have in terms of observable polarization effect? I've never found any polarizer to do much of anything when shooting right into the direction of the sun.

Also did you notice any additional flare produced from the extra element in the optical path over what would already of been likely produced with even a naked lens ?



Dec 13, 2011 at 05:07 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


Its extremely obvious that filter flare is very different than lens flare. If you can't see the difference than I really can't even begin the conversation.

And yes, there are definitely instances where you'll see lots of circ polar effects when shooting into the sun like in the samples I shot above.

But hey, if you REALLY WANT TO BELIEVE it makes no difference, then great for you but the way I see it, i was FOOLISH in thinking that Marumi filters were just as good. But you live and learn and I've learned there are no free lunches yet again!

I wanted to follow the conventional wisdom but I was wrong, the B+W MRC coatings are superior in flare reduction. If that is unimportant (and it is in certain situations) then by all means, spend 50%-100% less. False economies.

But again, for how much my lenses cost and how much my camera costs, this is a trivial difference to pay extra for a more flare resistant filter. I'm sure in certain situations its inconsequential.



Dec 13, 2011 at 05:16 AM
AhamB
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


^In your defense: it's my experience that it can be difficult to catch the weak points of a product before buying -- if you don't have extensive experience with all aspects involved, you can gloss over points on which product underperforms. Once you've had a product that disappoints in some way(s), compared to another product with which you were satisfied, you know what to look for next time. Sometimes you have to learn from your own mistakes.


Dec 13, 2011 at 09:57 AM
wickerprints
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


The whole reason why LensTip breaks down the scoring the way they do is so that you can decide for yourself what criteria are important to you when selecting a filter. One filter may be better at controlling flare than another, but the situation is reversed if we talk about transmission. It's up to the reader to decide how to weigh the results.

Also note that the Marumi flare sample image seems to have more exposure than the B+W.

And finally, I'd suggest that if you're shooting into bright light sources in high-contrast situations that are flare-prone, then it only takes a few seconds to take off the filter. If you don't want to do that, then either buy the expensive B+W or put up with more flare from a cheaper filter. You can't have it all--cheap, perfect, and no impact under any situation.



Dec 13, 2011 at 10:50 AM
 

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FlyPenFly
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


AhamB wrote:
^In your defense: it's my experience that it can be difficult to catch the weak points of a product before buying -- if you don't have extensive experience with all aspects involved, you can gloss over points on which product underperforms. Once you've had a product that disappoints in some way(s), compared to another product with which you were satisfied, you know what to look for next time. Sometimes you have to learn from your own mistakes.


Yup it starts becoming an expensive lesson. Like in many hobbies like car racing, firearms, and watchsmithing... The buy once theory often triumphs.

I will say the marumi achromat filters are excellent although i havent had a chance to try the canon or nikon two element versions. B+W deosnt offer a 2 element close up filter.



Dec 13, 2011 at 02:43 PM
Bifurcator
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


It might have already been mentioned I didn't read the entire thread but: Filters are notorious examples of sample variation! I think filters vary more than any other optical attachment made for cameras. So if there's a discrepancy between some on-line test site and actual experience I personally would automatically chalk it up to SV.

It's so bad that sometimes I can see the difference with my own eyes from two packages from the same manufacturer hanging back-to-back on the same rack.




Dec 13, 2011 at 10:30 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


Back to say that, in connection to the high price=best quality issue, theSuede mentioned sometime back that the glass in B+W filters cost them $4 and that filters carry a huge markup. Who else to sell your high price filters to but the advanced amateur/pro market.

The $4 was probably the 010 filters but you see the problem unless you have intimate knowledge of insider dev/prod costs, not to forget marketing, on which B+W seem to spend a king's ransom.

'Filters are notorious examples of sample variation!'

I don't doubt it. Why spend up on QC when few customers notice anyway.



Dec 14, 2011 at 06:30 AM
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


Good point. I think - knowing a little about the coating process, that the only way to achieve QC is to put the finished filters through a rigorous sorting process. Such a process costs more than manufacturing. Do they do it? I dunno, but somehow I doubt it. I think the HQ manufacturers do a light initial sort and that's it. At least that's hat I would do. Computer memory chips parallel this model quite closely I think. A second sort on memory chips effectively doubles the price yet really doesn't do all that much for lot quality. If I were running a filter factory I would try to perfect the manufacture process and skimp as much as I could on sorting. I guess manufacturers think similarly with one of the differences being there's a lot more variation in the filter coating process than there is in chip fabrication.


Dec 14, 2011 at 01:29 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Watch out for Test Rankings - Filter Flare


Hmm, I'm not sure how raw material cost is that important? A $300 CPU has $0.04 in silicon.


Dec 14, 2011 at 02:31 PM
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