7D noise issue

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Archive 2011 · 7D noise issue

Bones74
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p.6 #1 · 7D noise issue

For those of you interested, this http://www.flickr.com/photos/49808929@N00/5495614472/sizes/o/in/set-72157623522537279/ was shot at ISO 3200/7D. Minimal NR in CR. Sorry, I don't have have image upload. You need to copy and paste the URL into your browser.

The subject liked the image and asked for it to be used on her website

Edited on Dec 12, 2011 at 09:45 PM · View previous versions

Dec 12, 2011 at 09:44 PM

akin_t
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p.6 #2 · 7D noise issue

Ernie Aubert wrote:
Jeff Nolten wrote:
A question specific to noise processing 7D RAWs, is there any difference in the raw converters used by Photoshop CSE, Elements, and Lightroom (assuming similar or current versions)? I use PSE with the latest raw converter but see many references to LR3's noise reduction. I do most of my noise reduction in the raw converter and do touch-up on selected areas in PSE. Looking at product reviews it looks like Lightroom glosses over raw conversion and then provides enhanced noise reduction tool in the main application - perhaps without the benefit of area selection capability. Can any of you experts comment? PSE has been adequate for my camera bodies up until now, will the 7D benefit from Lightroom? Thanks.
I've asked a similar question before, and no one answered me either. I can't even imagine why no one will answer this. I've seen many references to noise reduction in LR3, but I still don't know if they're talking about in Camera Raw, or in LR editing after the conversion. For what it's worth (which is something to me), I compared Camera Raw's noise reduction to Topaz DeNoise 5 with some images, and I got better results (to my eye) with Topaz DeNoise.

Photoshop CS5 Camera Raw = Lightroom 3

Don't know about Elements, sorry.

Dec 12, 2011 at 09:45 PM

artsupreme
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p.6 #3 · 7D noise issue

akin_t wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
Why do all the 7D cheerleaders get so hurt when someone points out how noisy the 7D is? It's no secret guys, the 7D has a noisy sensor. Does this surprise anyone with it's pixel density? Just accept it and tell it how it is: Yes you can achieve good output from the 7D with PP/NR but don't expect anything clean SOOC.

I was one of the first to get the 7D when it was released and was one of the first to post about it's noise here. The truth is the 7D is a has a noisy sensor and wasn't widely accepted back in the LR2 days (many dumped it).....however, once LR3 was released the 7D all of a sudden became noiseless right?? Wrong. The 7D buy itself is still noisy guys, no way around it. It requires PP/NR to clean it up as others have shown in their images here.

The amount of PP required is acceptable to some, and unacceptable to others. To each his own. To me, the 7D is almost the perfect all around camera except for the noise...I still own one and use it for certain situations....I've just learned to live with the extra PP/NR required as many others have here.

You're just repeating what everyone else has said in this thread. Your post is nothing new really. No one is denying that the 7D isn't as clean as its Full Frame cousins.

We're just really surprised that some people consider moving a slider as 'too much work'.

Yes people continue to get defensive and refuse to accept the 7D is noisy....otherwise these threads would end after a few posts and there would be no arguing for 8 pages.

Dec 12, 2011 at 09:46 PM

RobertLynn
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p.6 #4 · 7D noise issue

artsupreme wrote:
akin_t wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
Why do all the 7D cheerleaders get so hurt when someone points out how noisy the 7D is? It's no secret guys, the 7D has a noisy sensor. Does this surprise anyone with it's pixel density? Just accept it and tell it how it is: Yes you can achieve good output from the 7D with PP/NR but don't expect anything clean SOOC.

I was one of the first to get the 7D when it was released and was one of the first to post about it's noise here. The truth is the 7D is a has a noisy sensor and wasn't widely accepted back in the LR2 days (many dumped it).....however, once LR3 was released the 7D all of a sudden became noiseless right?? Wrong. The 7D buy itself is still noisy guys, no way around it. It requires PP/NR to clean it up as others have shown in their images here.

The amount of PP required is acceptable to some, and unacceptable to others. To each his own. To me, the 7D is almost the perfect all around camera except for the noise...I still own one and use it for certain situations....I've just learned to live with the extra PP/NR required as many others have here.

You're just repeating what everyone else has said in this thread. Your post is nothing new really. No one is denying that the 7D isn't as clean as its Full Frame cousins.

We're just really surprised that some people consider moving a slider as 'too much work'.

Yes people continue to get defensive and refuse to accept the 7D is noisy....otherwise these threads would end after a few posts and there would be no arguing for 8 pages.

I don't think there's anyone who said it doesn't have noise...I'd be interested to see a camera that DOESN'T have ANY noise at ANY ISO.

So basically, what we're supposed to say is...okay, someone who apparently can't be bothered to move a slider...the same slider that I move for my 1D3, my previous 1D2n, my 40D, 30D, 5D or any other camera, can say that ONE of those bodies is noisy, but not the other ones.

I'm sorry, but I ain't falling for it. THere's no special "trick" to unlocking the camera's quality. It's the same as any other camera. Good technique, minor/moderate depending on taste, for post processing yields great images.

It's the same as any other camera I've owned. Yep, it may have more noise because of the pixel density...but it's funny, the camera doesn't get compared to cameras in the same market...just higher end ones...that alone should say something.

Dec 12, 2011 at 10:10 PM

artsupreme
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p.6 #5 · 7D noise issue

RobertLynn wrote:
Yep, it may have more noise because of the pixel density...

You admitted it there and that's all that really needs to be said about the 7D. Good man.

Dec 12, 2011 at 10:15 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.6 #6 · 7D noise issue

RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
akin_t wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
Why do all the 7D cheerleaders get so hurt when someone points out how noisy the 7D is? It's no secret guys, the 7D has a noisy sensor. Does this surprise anyone with it's pixel density? Just accept it and tell it how it is: Yes you can achieve good output from the 7D with PP/NR but don't expect anything clean SOOC.

I was one of the first to get the 7D when it was released and was one of the first to post about it's noise here. The truth is the 7D is a has a noisy sensor and wasn't widely accepted back in the LR2 days (many dumped it).....however, once LR3 was released the 7D all of a sudden became noiseless right?? Wrong. The 7D buy itself is still noisy guys, no way around it. It requires PP/NR to clean it up as others have shown in their images here.

The amount of PP required is acceptable to some, and unacceptable to others. To each his own. To me, the 7D is almost the perfect all around camera except for the noise...I still own one and use it for certain situations....I've just learned to live with the extra PP/NR required as many others have here.

You're just repeating what everyone else has said in this thread. Your post is nothing new really. No one is denying that the 7D isn't as clean as its Full Frame cousins.

We're just really surprised that some people consider moving a slider as 'too much work'.

Yes people continue to get defensive and refuse to accept the 7D is noisy....otherwise these threads would end after a few posts and there would be no arguing for 8 pages.

I don't think there's anyone who said it doesn't have noise...I'd be interested to see a camera that DOESN'T have ANY noise at ANY ISO.

So basically, what we're supposed to say is...okay, someone who apparently can't be bothered to move a slider...the same slider that I move for my 1D3, my previous 1D2n, my 40D, 30D, 5D or any other camera, can say that ONE of those bodies is noisy, but not the other ones.

I'm sorry, but I ain't falling for it. THere's no special "trick" to unlocking the camera's quality. It's the same as any other camera. Good technique, minor/moderate depending on taste, for post processing yields great images.

It's the same as any other camera I've owned. Yep, it may have more noise because of the pixel density...but it's funny, the camera doesn't get compared to cameras in the same market...just higher end ones...that alone should say something.

Also the fact we still have people looking at 100% views, which correspond to an enormous enlargement on the 7D, and then stick their nose 6" from the monitor and complain about some grain in the skies.

Dec 12, 2011 at 10:16 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.6 #7 · 7D noise issue

Pixel Perfect wrote:
I disagree about setting sharpening to zero ie having no capture sharpening. You can improve the image with capture sharpening, without adding to noise if you take some time to investigate the effects of the sliders. For the 7D I've found using

Amount: 40-55
radius: 0.6-0.8
detail: 10-15 up to ISO 800, 0-10 above that
mask: 25-35 upto ISO 800, 50-75 above that

works very well. The mask is the most important slider for making sure you don't enhance noise in textureless areas like sky. For other cameras like the 5D II I can use a bit less mask and a bit more detail.

Thanks Pixel, what are your settings for the NR sliders in ACR? I know these are starting points to be tailored to the image.

Dec 13, 2011 at 01:32 AM

RobertLynn
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p.6 #8 · 7D noise issue

artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
Yep, it may have more noise because of the pixel density...

You admitted it there and that's all that really needs to be said about the 7D. Good man.

I never denied it.

The truth is, any sensor, when adding pixels to it, and increasing the density is more likely to show noise at the pixel level.

At the viewing/print level, it's a moot point, and as clearly evidenced by files from other's on this forum, not including my own, the camera does just fine and shouldn't have a vile reputation.

Dec 13, 2011 at 01:59 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.6 #9 · 7D noise issue

RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:

EEK!

Dec 13, 2011 at 02:14 AM

RobertLynn
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p.6 #10 · 7D noise issue

Jeff Nolten wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:
artsupreme wrote:
RobertLynn wrote:

EEK!

Sick burn.

Dec 13, 2011 at 02:22 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.6 #11 · 7D noise issue

RobertLynn wrote:
Jeff Nolten wrote:
EEK!

Sick burn.

§:-{Þ

Dec 13, 2011 at 03:01 AM

snapsy
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p.6 #12 · 7D noise issue

Here's the 7D @ ISO 100 compared to its nearest competitor at 2x magnification, both shot within seconds of each other and within 1/3 stop of exposures and both set to their respective OEM landscape profiles. I'll do ISO 400 when sunshine returns here.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Dec 13, 2011 at 03:12 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.6 #13 · 7D noise issue

Jeff Nolten wrote:

Thanks Pixel, what are your settings for the NR sliders in ACR? I know these are starting points to be tailored to the image.

I use LR3, but they are exactly the same engine, so I'd assume these would work just as well in ACR 6.

The mask is what allows me to use a bit more for amount on sharpening. If you hold down the alt key and then click on the radius, detail and mask slider in turn you will see their effect in a luminosity mask view. Mask is used to constrain sharpening to edges. Zero mask means all the image is sharpened, 100% means only strong edges will be sharpened.

Dec 13, 2011 at 04:03 AM

Imagemaster
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p.6 #14 · 7D noise issue

More "noise is a problem" shots:

2013 © Imagemaster

Dec 13, 2011 at 04:06 AM

Imagemaster
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p.6 #15 · 7D noise issue

Dec 13, 2011 at 04:08 AM

Jase1125
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p.6 #16 · 7D noise issue

I can't make out what was being photographed with all the noise in the picture!

Dec 13, 2011 at 04:31 AM

okafoja
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p.6 #17 · 7D noise issue

Let see how many pages this thread will get. All the 7D bullies are in full force.

Dec 13, 2011 at 05:10 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.6 #18 · 7D noise issue

Pixel Perfect wrote:
I use LR3, but they are exactly the same engine, so I'd assume these would work just as well in ACR 6.

The mask is what allows me to use a bit more for amount on sharpening. If you hold down the alt key and then click on the radius, detail and mask slider in turn you will see their effect in a luminosity mask view. Mask is used to constrain sharpening to edges. Zero mask means all the image is sharpened, 100% means only strong edges will be sharpened.

Thanks for the action of the mask function. Adobe's help is quite light on that subject. Cheers.

Dec 13, 2011 at 05:57 AM

Jeff Nolten
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p.6 #19 · 7D noise issue

ImageMaster: I can see the reflection of you standing there with your 500 f4 in the owl's eye!

Dec 13, 2011 at 06:00 AM

TomKayser
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p.6 #20 · 7D noise issue

Who works on a deadline wouldnt use a 7d, but a 1d. So, youre not so important as you pretend. If it takes you forever to clean noise, youre no professioneal either.
Your pictures show...

bridow wrote:
Some people work on a deadline and NR isn't an option. Plus, I don't want to spend $1450 on a camera and have to run every image through LR and export. That takes forever. I was really looking forward to using a 7D, as they are $1150 refurbished at Canon w/ loyal discount, but Iborrowed one this week and was severely disappointed. Not sure what's with all the witty banter...

I think its pretty common knowledge the 7D is bad at high iso and the 5D2 is bad at AF tracking. This is why there has been so many people that have moved to Nikon and why many are hoping for a 5D body with 7D AF. It's up to the buyer to decide which product is best for him or her.

5D2

ISO4000 Resized - NO NR - Noise comparable to 7D at iso1600

This image is copyrighted by the owner

ISO6400 - NO NR

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Dec 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM

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