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Archive 2011 · 7D noise issue
  
 
tony rizzo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 7D noise issue


Recently bought a 7D and have noticed high noise levels even at 400 ISO. Just wondering if any other fm folks have experienced this issue. Usually shot with 300f2.8 IS and 1.4 tele 2. Mostly critters and birds in flight. Focus seems to work fine but again noise is a problem. Also noise with other Canon lenses also.
Thanks Tony



Dec 10, 2011 at 08:41 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 7D noise issue


Are you asking about RFI artifacts from the lens motor or the normal noise in skies, low mids and shadows? If it is due to RFI from a lens it is rare and only a couple lenses were known to have this problem with the 5D (as well as cheap radio poppers). Not heard of it with the 7D. Most likely you are seeing normal noise due to dense pixels on a small sensor. I don't need NR for 5D2 RAW up to ISO 1250 and only a touch after that. With my 7D I need to use NR even at low ISO if I'm printing large and/or have lots of skies or shadows.

You can reduce noise a bit by disabling the highlight enhancing and even illumination modes. They really make noise worse. Also, I've found ISO 160, 320, 640 and 120 to be much cleaner than ISO 200, 400, 800 and 1600,



Dec 10, 2011 at 08:57 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 7D noise issue


The only noise issues with the 7D are people thinking that it should have clean images at 6400.


Dec 10, 2011 at 09:09 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 7D noise issue


What are you comparing against? I thought my 7D was noisy until I pixel peeped an ISO 800 image taken with my 5D2. Everything is measured with noise. That said, the 7D sensor is touchier than my 40D for requiring the correct exposure and working the noise reduction in post. I assume you are shooting RAW. Its a high density sensor so you are working closer to the edge but overall its a net gain over previous sensors.


Dec 10, 2011 at 09:49 PM
BrianO
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 7D noise issue


Gochugogi wrote:
...You can reduce noise a bit by disabling the highlight enhancing and even illumination modes. They really make noise worse. Also, I've found ISO 160, 320, 640 and 120 to be much cleaner than ISO 200, 400, 800 and 1600,


Good to know. I just got a 7D six days ago, and haven't had a chance to do much shooting with it yet, so I've got a lot of learning to do.

I used to shoot weddings with Kodak VPS (ASA 160), and when I started using VPH (nominally ASA 400) I usually over-exposed it a little (EI 320), so those numbers will be easy for me to remember.



Dec 10, 2011 at 09:59 PM
bridow
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 7D noise issue


As a 5D2 shooter, I just recently borrowed a 7D to test it out and I feel that the iso is pretty much unusable over 1000 for the professional work I do. The sensor is just too small to expect it to have full frame quality at higher iso and would say the noise is a 1.5+ stops worse than a 5D2.


Dec 10, 2011 at 10:21 PM
AbramG
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 7D noise issue


I know this couldn't be the case for everyone, but when I had a 7D the noise was so bad that I was convinced there was a legitimate issue. ISO 100 looked as grainy as 3200, it was clearly noticeable. Canon agreed and they replaced the sensor in that camera, which dramatically improved the quality. At least to a level that I felt was appropriate for the density of the sensor.


Dec 10, 2011 at 10:21 PM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 7D noise issue


Aside from a legit sensor issue, or something all g those lines, if you can't find the 7d "usable", then pretty much no camera is going to be "usable" for you.


Dec 10, 2011 at 10:42 PM
OwlsEyes
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 7D noise issue


As is common with most digital SLR's, underexposure increases the apparent noise in the image. When photographing birds against a blue sky, it is a challenge to strike the right balance between exposing for the bird and exposing for the sky. With the 7D, it is imperative that you expose as far to the right as you can w/out clipping the highlights. Failure to do so will increase the "patchiness" that appears in blue skies.

I use a 7D for my birds in flight and I have used a 1DII and 1DIII for the same type of photography. While the 1D - series might appear to have less noise, you must realize that there is a huge difference in resolution between my former bodies and the 7D. People seem to ignore this key fact... downsizing a 7D file to 8mp or 10mp will result in a nearly noiseless image.

Final point, I have pictures hanging in a gallery of herons returning to their nest at dawn. Here the skies have that morning blue. These images were printed 20" wide and there is no visible noise.

Expose to the right and don't evaluate for noise while viewing at 100%... unless you plan on printing a 40" images.
cheers,
bruce



Dec 10, 2011 at 11:01 PM
marko1953
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 7D noise issue


When I first got my 7D I was very disappointed at the amount of noise present even at ISO 200-400. I was used to my 5D c and noise has never been an issue. The saviour was found with Lightroom 3, this has revolutionised the noise issue with the simple noise reduction slider. (Not present in LR2). You can make amazingly soft smooth images with no noise! it's hard not to take it too far and get a dreamy almost painterly look. If you are finding noise to be an issue please check out LR3. There is other software I know but I have never used it.


Dec 10, 2011 at 11:45 PM
 

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EB-1
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 7D noise issue


Yes, the 7D is noisy. It uses a 2-year old Canon sensor with bery small pixel pitch. Learn to improve NR in PP and create acceptable IQ or move up to FF and larger pixels.

EBH



Dec 11, 2011 at 12:31 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 7D noise issue


I found the following posts helpful:

Gochugogi wrote:
...Most likely you are seeing normal noise due to dense pixels on a small sensor. ... With my 7D I need to use NR even at low ISO if I'm printing large and/or have lots of skies or shadows.

You can reduce noise a bit by disabling the highlight enhancing and even illumination modes. They really make noise worse. Also, I've found ISO 160, 320, 640 and 120 to be much cleaner than ISO 200, 400, 800 and 1600,


Jeff Nolten wrote:
...the 7D sensor is touchier than my 40D for requiring the correct exposure and working the noise reduction in post. I assume you are shooting RAW. Its a high density sensor so you are working closer to the edge but overall its a net gain over previous sensors.


AbramG wrote:
...when I had a 7D the noise was so bad that I was convinced there was a legitimate issue. ISO 100 looked as grainy as 3200, it was clearly noticeable. Canon agreed and they replaced the sensor in that camera, which dramatically improved the quality. At least to a level that I felt was appropriate for the density of the sensor.


OwlsEyes wrote:
As is common with most digital SLR's, underexposure increases the apparent noise in the image. When photographing birds against a blue sky, it is a challenge to strike the right balance between exposing for the bird and exposing for the sky. With the 7D, it is imperative that you expose as far to the right as you can w/out clipping the highlights. Failure to do so will increase the "patchiness" that appears in blue skies. ...Expose to the right and don't evaluate for noise while viewing at 100%... unless you plan on printing a 40" images.


marko1953 wrote:
When I first got my 7D I was very disappointed at the amount of noise present even at ISO 200-400. ...The saviour was found with Lightroom 3, this has revolutionised the noise issue with the simple noise reduction slider.


I found the following posts not only not helpful, but condescending and inflammatory:

RobertLynn wrote:
The only noise issues with the 7D are people thinking that it should have clean images at 6400.


RobertLynn wrote:
...if you can't find the 7d "usable", then pretty much no camera is going to be "usable" for you.


It's not limited to this thread. RobertLynn = [Hide Me]



Dec 11, 2011 at 02:30 AM
Ferrophot
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 7D noise issue


I have a 7D and for 99.9% of what I photograph and view noise is not an issue. What I love is its ability to take a keeper in loooow light at 3200+ ISO, with my XTi I would not even try for these shots.
Yes, if I look at 100% there is a lot of ugly noise, but at normal printing, A4, or on the monitor screen it's not an issue, just a great photo. A 5DII might be better, but it costs $1000 more, and I need the crop for wildlife.



Dec 11, 2011 at 02:31 AM
Netgarden
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 7D noise issue


Tony, yes, i sold mine. I guess i was spoiled previously by my mk III. I worked with both at the same time, and found the processing time a real pia compared to the iii. And iso 400 range was where i was disappointed, blaming the larger files, etc. I just got tired of all the time consumption with pp, and also lack of quality in darher light. If you can manage a mk iii or iv, you will be pleasantly surprised.


Dec 11, 2011 at 04:45 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 7D noise issue


Oh yeah, 7D is really bad for noise. It takes no time at all in PP to handle noise, when there is any to handle.

First three shots are at ISO 1600 and last one at ISO 800.







#1







#2







#3







#4




Dec 11, 2011 at 06:35 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 7D noise issue


Imagemaster wrote:
Oh yeah, 7D is really bad for noise. It takes no time at all in PP to handle noise, when there is any to handle. ...First three shots are at ISO 1600 and last one at ISO 800.


I find the noise in the background of shots 1 and 3 to be distracting, so I'd work on those. Shots 2 and 4 I wouldn't touch; they look fine to my eyes just as they are.

If I can get results close to yours, I'll be using 800 ISO on my new 7D where I used to use 400 ISO on my 20D, and reap the benefits of faster shutter speeds.



Dec 11, 2011 at 09:46 AM
misterphil
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 7D noise issue


I agree with BrianO, 1+ 3 have noticeable noise, could possibly be cleaned up - are they crops?
Clean shot number 4 though.



Dec 11, 2011 at 11:00 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 7D noise issue


I find with the 7D if I expose to the right I can get good results. Don't forget looking at 100% view on 7D corresponds to a huge enlargement and expecting grain free skies is unreasonable. The noise is easily cleaned up. I shoot most of my BIF at ISO 400 and have been happy with the results.





  Canon EOS 7D    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens    400mm    f/5.6    1/800s    400 ISO    +0.3 EV  






  Canon EOS 7D    EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM lens    400mm    f/5.6    1/2000s    400 ISO    +0.3 EV  






  Canon EOS 7D    700mm    f/6.3    1/400s    400 ISO    +0.3 EV  






  Canon EOS 7D    400mm    f/5.6    1/3200s    400 ISO    0.0 EV  




Dec 11, 2011 at 12:35 PM
bridow
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 7D noise issue


Some people work on a deadline and NR isn't an option. Plus, I don't want to spend $1450 on a camera and have to run every image through LR and export. That takes forever. I was really looking forward to using a 7D, as they are $1150 refurbished at Canon w/ loyal discount, but Iborrowed one this week and was severely disappointed. Not sure what's with all the witty banter...

I think its pretty common knowledge the 7D is bad at high iso and the 5D2 is bad at AF tracking. This is why there has been so many people that have moved to Nikon and why many are hoping for a 5D body with 7D AF. It's up to the buyer to decide which product is best for him or her.

5D2

ISO4000 Resized - NO NR - Noise comparable to 7D at iso1600



ISO6400 - NO NR




Dec 11, 2011 at 01:07 PM
coranda
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 7D noise issue


So bridow,

Do you use in-camera noise reduction and shoot jpeg? I assume this is the case because if you shot raw you would have to use a raw converter and so using a preset with NR would be a simple, deadline friendly workflow.



Dec 11, 2011 at 01:18 PM
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