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Archive 2011 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)
  
 
markymarc
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p.1 #1 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


I just purchased 2 Einsteins E640s and am having fun using them. The modeling lamp seems excessively noisy to me. At anything below full power, (when in tracking aka proportional control), the lamp hums. I can hear it over the fan a few feet away. The fan is a nice white noise so no complaints there. The noise does get quieter at lamp full power (250W) but the hum immediately gets noticeable once you go 1 tenth of an F-stop down.

Also curious as to whether most folks just keep the lamp on full power most times. I have found the tracking not to be particular useful so far. If I cannot see the footprint of the light, what is the point?

PCB Technical Forum has suggested this buzz/humm is normal but I would like to double-check with the FM community. Also, do other monolights like the Elinchrom RX line have noisy modeling lamps at less than full power??

Comments and observations are appreciated.

Marc




Nov 22, 2011 at 03:10 PM
RDKirk
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p.1 #2 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


I don't know about the Einstein buzz, but I've never bothered to use power tracking with modeling lights, either.

The eye doesn't respond the same way as sensors do to light ratios--inevitably, the range is much greater to the sensor than it appears to the eye. With film, I found metering and Polaroid better guides; today, that would be the LCD.

I prefer to turn my fill modeling light off completely so that the effects of the others are more clear in the viewfinder (or Live View).

I also prefer to keep the accent lights at full power to make sure I notice any of their mischief in the viewfinder. If I had them dialed down, I'd hardly see their effects at all in the viewfinder and might miss something like a hairlight that hits the top of an ear when the subject turns her head.



Nov 22, 2011 at 07:30 PM
Dave Jr
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p.1 #3 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


I just ordered Einsteins and they told me they are now shipping with two bulbs each, a 250w, and a 150w. Maybe try the 150w and see if you hear the same noise.


Nov 22, 2011 at 07:51 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #4 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


markymarc wrote:
Also curious as to whether most folks just keep the lamp on full power most times. I have found the tracking not to be particular useful so far. If I cannot see the footprint of the light, what is the point?

I use my modeling lights proportionally most of the time, otherwise they wouldn’t be modeling they would just be adding to ambient for focusing etc. At 300 W, they are a little more powerful than the Einstein’s 250 W. Or perhaps you have a small space and are using the lights at such low levels that they aren’t effective?


PCB Technical Forum has suggested this buzz/humm is normal but I would like to double-check with the FM community. Also, do other monolights like the Elinchrom RX line have noisy modeling lamps at less than full power??

With my Profoto lights there is no noticeable difference; they can’t be heard at any level. But maybe the Profoto fans are louder.

Brian A



Nov 22, 2011 at 07:56 PM
markymarc
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p.1 #5 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


The 150W bulbs are installed by default. The are shipping the 250W as spares. I need to install the 250W and see if they buzz. The 150W bulbs get things pretty hot very quickly so the 250W bulbs should make things downright toasty


Nov 22, 2011 at 08:23 PM
Dave Jr
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p.1 #6 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


Ah, you mentioned they get quieter at full power (250w) in your post so I assumed you were using the 250w bulbs.


Nov 22, 2011 at 09:40 PM
misterbill7718
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p.1 #7 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


The buzzing is the dimmer used on the modeling lamps. At full power they are not dissipating current through the dimmer, so no buzz. Every Alien Bee flash I have ever used does it. Kinda like the old wall dimmers in houses, they hum at around 60hz.


Nov 22, 2011 at 11:31 PM
markymarc
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p.1 #8 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


@MisterBill. Old wall dimmers is right. Not the dimmers in my house in the last 10 years. Thanks for the input. Do all other strobes have the same "old dimmer" characteristics. Apparently, Profoto is a No.


Nov 23, 2011 at 02:11 PM
Molokai
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p.1 #9 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


A frend just bought a Ranger Quadra with new actoin head - that comes with a 25 watt LED light. That would be nice on the Einstein for battery usage

And they are so tiny...


On the other hand, you get much slower flashes, and inconsistent temperature - much warmer light at low power.



Nov 24, 2011 at 10:07 PM
tedwca
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p.1 #10 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


Molokai wrote:
A frend just bought a Ranger Quadra with new actoin head - that comes with a 25 watt LED light. That would be nice on the Einstein for battery usage

And they are so tiny...

On the other hand, you get much slower flashes, and inconsistent temperature - much warmer light at low power.



Buff has just that item for the Einsteins to use on battery power.(EDIT - Just noticed you said LED lamp, but still an option)

http://www.paulcbuff.com/modelinglamps.php

optional replacement modeling lamp for the Einstein™
lower wattage option for use with the Vagabond Mini™ Lithium
25 Watt, 100 Volt modeling lamp
produces Lumen equivalent of a 35 Watt lamp



Nov 25, 2011 at 01:07 AM
 

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c2thew
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p.1 #11 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


buzz happens on both the elinchrom d-lite 4 and the einstein. It is much more noticeable on the einsteins because of the type of bulbs PCB uses which emit much more heat rather than light when compared to elinchrom's leuci bulb.

250watt einstein bulb outputs the same lumens as a an elinchrom 100watt leuci bulb which is why the einstein's experience overheating issues when the strobe is tilted downards with a modifier attached.



Nov 26, 2011 at 08:03 AM
markymarc
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p.1 #12 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


So your RX's run silent with respect to the modeling lamp..even when set on tracking and not running on full power. The Einstein modeling lamp is fairly quiet at full power. The buzz occcurs when it is dimmed. How does the RX do when dimmed?


Nov 26, 2011 at 03:10 PM
RDKirk
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p.1 #13 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


c2thew wrote:
250watt einstein bulb outputs the same lumens as a an elinchrom 100watt leuci bulb.


Where can I find that information? That would be a stupendous technological improvement that I didn't see mentioned at any of the links I Googled for it.

However, I note that the Leuci bulb is designed for high voltage...so at 220v, it probably does produce more lumens at 100 watts.



Nov 26, 2011 at 04:25 PM
c2thew
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p.1 #14 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


RDKirk wrote:
Where can I find that information? That would be a stupendous technological improvement that I didn't see mentioned at any of the links I Googled for it.

However, I note that the Leuci bulb is designed for high voltage...so at 220v, it probably does produce more lumens at 100 watts.


The comparison in the link below was used with the modeling lamps only: the flash did not go off (with the exception of the plm shots)

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/c2thew/D-lite%204%20and%20Einstein/



























the elinchrom gets an added boost due to the reflector behind the modeling light. but i suspect that even without the reflector, the lumen would be equal.



Nov 26, 2011 at 06:03 PM
RDKirk
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p.1 #15 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


The Einstein illumination looks a stop brighter in all those shots to me, and of course the difference in reflectors is an enormous variable. But what did your light meter report at identical distances with the reflectors removed?


Nov 26, 2011 at 06:40 PM
c2thew
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p.1 #16 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


Comparing the modeling light output between the Elinchrom d-lite 4 and the PCB Einstein strobes.

Incident metering mode with the sekonic l358 shutter priority: iso 100, 1/125 fixed shutter 45 inches from the light with reflectors on. The strobes were 25 inches apart and I stood inbetween the lights to meter each strobe.

The reflectors used are the OEM's supplied from PCB and Elinchrom respectively. Note that the elinchrom's reflector is not the kit reflector that comes with the d-lite (that one is more cylndrical) rather the reflector that the elinchrom had on was the bowl-shaped 7.5" reflector that is the standard used on the rest of the elinchrom strobes.

__________7.5" Reflectors_______________
Dome Out aimed at the lightbulb
Einstein: 1/125 f/1.4'3
Elinchrom: 1/125 f/1.0'7

Recessed dome aimed at the lightbulb
Einstein: 1/125 f/1.4'5
Elinchrom: 1/125 f/1.0'8

Spot meter attachment aimed at the lightbulb
Einstein: 1/125 f/5.6'7
Elinchrom: 1/125 f/8.0'4

__________No Reflectors_________________
Dome Out aimed at the lightbulb
Einstein: 1/125 f/1.0'2
Elinchrom: 1/125 f/1.0'2

Recessed dome aimed at the lightbulb
Einstein: 1/125 f/1.0'3
Elinchrom: 1/125 f/1.0'2

Spot meter attachment aimed at the lightbulb
Einstein: 1/125 f/4.0'4
Elinchrom: 1/125 f/5.6'1



Nov 27, 2011 at 12:39 AM
rico
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p.1 #17 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


Like some here, I find proportional modelling to be less than awesome. Even with 250W, there aren't enough photons to discern the effect critically (especially with light-sopping modifiers). I do, however, gimmick the modelling brightness to prevent overheating when certain modifiers are attached and airflow is constricted. Profoto modelling is silent at any setting.


Nov 27, 2011 at 07:39 AM
markd61
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p.1 #18 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


A lot of my equipment makes noise.Heck the flourescents in the ceiling make noise as does my A/C. I choose photo equipment for performance at making photos. If I were making music or video I would be more concerned about noise.

What I like about the 250W modeling lamps in the Einstein is that I can use them on location as hot lights for architecture. Otherwise I always use them at full blast in studio for focus.

I use my digital camera to see my contrast in lighting just like we used to use Polaroids in the old days to test our lighting setups. We never trusted modeling lamps.




Nov 29, 2011 at 04:54 AM
c2thew
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p.1 #19 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


^ but the trend in lighting is all about efficiency and adopting new technology. Elinchrom up'd the game with putting a CRE LED light on their quadra line while einsteins are still using incandescent? bulbs which generate significant amount of heat at full power. Large studios wouldn't have to worry about the temperature/cooling costs associated with using florescent lighting systems, but they would have considered that if their light fixtures were all incandescent.

At the small home studio level, the modeling lights from the einsteins are indeed noticable to bring up the temperature in the room which will directly affect your shooting style if you are doing a 2 to 5 hour shoot. The heat emissions are very real. You don't see many photographers using 5500 kelvin, 500 watt hot lights anymore.



Nov 29, 2011 at 06:28 AM
RDKirk
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p.1 #20 · Einstein Users Weigh In (Modeling Lamp Noise)


Einsteins have the Cyber Commander, which for my operation trumps everything else.


Nov 29, 2011 at 11:35 AM
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