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Archive 2011 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems

  
 
carstenw
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Recently I was sent an invitation to a Hasselblad day, taking place today. The problem is that today is also my girlfriend's birthday, so the price, while looking free, was an undisclosed settlement to be decided in the near future, and many of you can attest to the fact that this can be expensive!

Nonetheless, my girlfriend is wonderful, and I was given carte blanche, and headed out. The alleged program was the presentation of the Hasselblad Master finalists, as well as the opportunity to try out various Hasselblad and Broncolor equipment, and take a look at some books, Sandisk cards, and Epson printers. In the end, there was no presentation of anything, just the stands, some booklets and flyers, and a bunch of people to ask questions. More like an open house than an event. The location was Delight rental equipment, btw, a nice place.

The Epson 4900 was there, and since this is a printer I have loosely been considering buying, I was quite interested to see it. I immediately changed my mind/post-poned the purchase indefinitely. This thing is absolutely monstrously large, easily taking up the entire area of a medium-sized table, and apparently weighing about 50kg. The sales rep, good sport that he was, said that it was easy to carry for two men Sure, if you aren't going far and don't have to turn any sharp corners. I might take a look at the 3880 instead. Maybe one day when I have a big house I will reconsider.

The Sandisk desk was not really interesting. I mean, they had CF and SD cards, but so what, I can browse those anywhere. Some product categories just don't lend themselves to exhibition Don't get me wrong, I like Sandisk products and don't use anything else, but really!

The Broncolor lighting equipment was very nice, but also very booked, so most people just stood around and watched, as two or three pros shot a series of too-thin but beautiful models in weird skimpy clothing. The main reflector probably stood about 2m tall, so this was not cheap stuff on show. Given that I own a single Calumet Genesis 200Ws lamp and an SB-900, I felt a little outclassed, needless to say, but then, my needs are modest. Watching the Broncolor equipment being demonstrated really did open my eyes though: it is amazing what you can achieve in-camera compared to what you see with your eyes, so it clearly takes lots of learning to get the results, and to know how to use it. Check the photos of the model below, compared to what the screen shows. Same shots.

However, the main reason for me to go to this event is that I have been toying with the idea of getting a medium-format digital system again, for my high-end "needs", and didn't want to exclude Hasselblad this time. In the past, I have loved and owned their V-system, and felt quite frustrated with the direction the H-system has taken, what, with 645 instead of 6x6, and light/dark brown cameras instead of black leatherette and chrome. On top of that, the cameras started up open, and then went closed, leaving the typical H2+Phase back owners out in the cold, and then there was the debacle over the 28/4, which needs software correction to deliver the best results, and then there are two lenses which do not cover full 645, excused by calling 36x48 full-frame, immediately followed up by full 645 cameras... More recently however, I have forgiven them, and to some extent, I think that they have the most interesting system on the market at the moment, with the HTS 1.5 and a complete line of lenses, so I wanted to take a look. The Hasselblad is also meant to have the nicest viewfinder on the market, which is something I am a big sucker for...

In my hands, the cameras felt solid and competent (I tried H4D-31 and H4D-40, but they are all the same, apart from the MS systems), the grip and body falling easily into my hands, and all buttons being reached, most easily, some with a small stretch. The little LCD displays all important information clearly, serves as the menu system, and shows a histogram after each shot, all very convenient. I spent several minutes familiarizing myself with the features, and apart from a couple of small details, figured out everything easily enough. The layout and menu system are not too complex, and quite logical. The rep asked me if I had any questions, and I had to answer that I did not. I tried shooting with it a bit, trying the 80/2.8, 120/4 Macro and 28/4, all very nice lenses, sharp, easy to focus (once I had set up my diopter correctly). All in all, a great system.

Some niggles: it is not really possible to check focus on the rear screen. It is not bad, but it is no D3/D3s/D3x screen. The histogram was a bit too small, I found, but perhaps there is a way to use the rear screen to get a larger one. I also could not see a way to visualize the under/over-exposed areas, but again, maybe there is some way to turn on the blinkies. The 80/2.8 was a nice lens, but the focusing of the very large and heavy 120/4 was not so smooth, and removing and re-attaching the lenses wasn't as glass-smooth as a Leitax mount... The 100/2.2 might be different, they didn't have it there. The autofocus was okay, but not fast. I didn't really have any way to verify that Tru-Focus works well, but will take their word for it. The camera hung once, and the rep had to pull and re-attach the battery to get it going again. The shutter lag was a bit longer than I expected, not so nice. Overall though, apart from the lenses, it felt like a good step up in functionality and modernity from my Contax 645/Sinar eMotion e54LV system (I have sold the back again), while still being somewhat similar in feel and use.

But here are my personal feelings: the system is totally professional, and clearly very competent, but it left me cold. A tool for realizing your vision, no doubt, but nothing that you would really fall in love with. Something like a really good hammer. The rendering was sharp and with non-distracting boke, but I didn't see anything to love there either. Nothing like my Zeiss or Leica lenses, more like good Nikkors (but not character-lenses like the 28/1.4 and 85/1.4AF-D). While the layout works, I didn't find it ideal. The angle of the thumb groove was slightly wrong for my hands, some buttons were slightly awkward to reach for my hands, the ISO/WB and EXP buttons were illogically far apart, the handle was a tad too vertical, etc. But the viewfinder was very nice, at least as bright and sharp as my D3, and larger. But that brown. Oh, Hasselblad, just make it black.

I did also try a 503CWD, i.e. a 503CW with a digital back, in this case the CFV-50. The system was much more to my liking, much lighter and a bit smaller, but the camera is really an anachronism. It has exactly one setting, ISO, in addition to the shutter speed and aperture on the lens. Really. No, really. No metering. No display of anything in the viewfinder. Nothing. Why on earth didn't Hasselblad take the much more advanced 205FCC or 203FE and go with that? Just a complete joke. Additionally, the back itself, while undoubtedly good, felt flimsy, and the battery hangs out from underneath and kinda interfered mildly with my left-hand placement.

I was also reminded how much attention you have to pay to get top-notch results. The resolution is so high that you need higher shutter speeds than you would expect to get tack-sharp results, the ISO got visibly worse past ISO 200 on the H4D-31, the best ISO back they have. Perhaps it looks better on the computer, but on the low-res screen on the camera, you could already see strong colour noise at ISO 400. The only way to use these cameras properly, if you really want to get superior results to, say, a D3x, is to connect the FW800 port to a computer, and control the lighting, i.e. studio or portable lighting. Just using it to walk around and shoot with I doubt that you would get great results w.r.t resolution and colour, unless you lived somewhere really sunny, like United Arab Emirates

Personally, I find this acceptable, but not ideal. After putting down the H4D and grabbing my D3 again, it was like a breath of fresh air. So easy to hold and use, so easy to verify your results, so easy to bump up the ISO to match the conditions, without losing your image quality. Manual focus was a breeze again. I really think that the D3 (and by extension, the D700 and D3s, and perhaps the D3x) is one of the best cameras ever made. Logical controls, lightning-fast operation, super-fast auto-focus, easy manual focus, every time. It really puts MF into perspective.

The only remaining questions in my mind are now if I would like the Rolleiflex 6008 system, or the Hy-6. I have never liked the Mamiya 645 systems, and I already know that I like the Contax 645, for which I can buy a Phase or Leaf back, although the camera is a little primitive for digital back use. The Leica S2 is really nice, but the system is currently a bit limited and very, very expensive, and cannot be used with a view camera, so for me it is more of a D3x-replacement than a MFD replacement.

Here are some photos. Please feel free to ask questions, and do remember that apart from one crash and a couple of minor finish and layout issues, the rest is only my opinion. Clearly the system is very nice and strong, just not what I am looking for.

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/HasselbladDay/CW_20111117_NikonD3_04158.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/HasselbladDay/CW_20111117_NikonD3_04159.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/HasselbladDay/CW_20111117_NikonD3_04161.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/HasselbladDay/CW_20111117_NikonD3_04162.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/HasselbladDay/CW_20111117_NikonD3_04164.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/HasselbladDay/CW_20111117_NikonD3_04172.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/HasselbladDay/CW_20111117_NikonD3_04181.jpg

http://throughthelensdarkly.com/forums/HasselbladDay/CW_20111117_NikonD3_04183.jpg

Edited on Dec 01, 2011 at 06:59 PM · View previous versions



Nov 17, 2011 at 11:54 AM
Antje
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Very interesting read, thank you, Carsten!


Nov 17, 2011 at 12:15 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Nice write up. I'm wondering if the color noise you saw with higher ISO's is just due to the embedded jpeg file used for the LCD display of the camera. Perhaps the actual raw file is free of it?

I suspect the Rollie stuff is nicer but i's a dead system with little to no support which is a huge negative.

You think that Epson 4900 is big, you should see how ridiculous the Canon IPF 8300 looks sitting in my office.
I love the printer though as, unlike every Epson I have ever owned, I can just start it up and get a perfect print first time, even after not using it for weeks. The Epson's always require nozzle checks and usually a few cleaning cycles.



Nov 17, 2011 at 12:22 PM
denoir
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Thank you Carsten - very interesting. I can only agree with you on the H4D, my own impressions of trying it were very similar to yours.


Nov 17, 2011 at 12:23 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Kind of sounds like medical imaging equipment, thanks for the report.


Nov 17, 2011 at 12:30 PM
Zaitz
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


The only way to use these cameras properly, if you really want to get superior results to, say, a D3x, is to connect the FW800 port to a computer, and control the lighting, i.e. studio or portable lighting. Just using it to walk around and shoot with I doubt that you would get great results w.r.t resolution and colour, unless you lived somewhere really sunny, like United Arab Emirates

Why not use it on a tripod?!



Nov 17, 2011 at 12:32 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Thanks, guys and gal

Zaitz, that was kinda implied, you are right that I should have mentioned it, I forgot.



Nov 17, 2011 at 02:18 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Tariq, it could be that the ISO 400 file cleans up on the computer, but the JPG shown on the camera surely represents what the sensor captures, i.e. there is a very noticeable jump in noise from a quite-clean ISO 200 to the quite noisy ISO 400.

About the Rollei system being dead, that is not quite true. They are still supported, just not actively developed, apart from the Hy-6 (supposedly). Anyway, I like dead stuff. Just look at my 203FE and Contax 645 The Contax is not properly supported any longer, I believe, although you can get everything serviced somehow.



Nov 17, 2011 at 02:38 PM
crazeazn
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


so what do you have to do for the woman?


Nov 17, 2011 at 02:46 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Don't know yet In fact, I went home earlier than expected, thus mitigating the damage, so let's see I think it will be fine.


Nov 17, 2011 at 03:19 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Tariq Gibran wrote:
I love the printer though as, unlike every Epson I have ever owned, I can just start it up and get a perfect print first time, even after not using it for weeks. The Epson's always require nozzle checks and usually a few cleaning cycles.


I'm not sure that really applies to the newer Epsons. I just fired up my R2880 for the first time in 8 months, and it had no issues.



Nov 17, 2011 at 04:48 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


carstenw wrote:
About the Rollei system being dead, that is not quite true. They are still supported, just not actively developed, apart from the Hy-6 (supposedly).


From an availability and support standpoint in the U.S., I'm not sure about that. When the Hy6 was around, it seems like Sinar was distributing supporting/ Rollei in the U.S. Now, I can't find any sort of web site which lists the Rollei 6008 or Hy6 from a distributor/ manufacturer standpoint. The Bron/Sinar site no longer shows the system. I would be curious if you have a link.

B&H still sells a limited number of lenses and bodies but nothing like what was once available and there are lots of missing, much used focal lengths. Sort of gives the impression the only stuff available is what has already been made and not sold. So, the system really seems like it is no longer being produced. Do you know who supports/ distributes Rollei in the U.S.

From a casual user standpoint, the Rollei systems, even if no longer produced, are nice but from a professional user standpoint, the lack of availability (and possibly support) would be a major no go.



Nov 17, 2011 at 05:04 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


douglasf13 wrote:
I'm not sure that really applies to the newer Epsons. I just fired up my R2880 for the first time in 8 months, and it had no issues.


That's impressive and possibly lucky. I know with the more recent large format models, there have been serious issues. Some of that may be due to the ink feed system which is much more complicated than what the smaller format printers use.



Nov 17, 2011 at 05:08 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


My R2400 went unused for a long time (2 years?) and was impossible to start back up, even after several cleaning cycles and new ink. In the end I had to put some window cleaner on a foam pad under the jets, IIRC, but eventually got it working again. Still, I much prefer the Epsons to the Canons. Drivers, for example.


Nov 17, 2011 at 05:10 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


I just had to go through several rounds of nozzle-checks/cleaning cycles before my 3880 was ready to print again. I hadn't printed for awhile. My HP Z3100 is much better at NOT clogging and doesn't seem to go throught the ink as much as the Epsons when doing their routine maintenance checks.
The 4900 printer is nice having the better/new 900 series ink but is kind of weird not having its own stand like a normal printer that size and is too big to be made a table top printer like that.

Thanks for the writeup on the demo experience.



Nov 17, 2011 at 05:20 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


carstenw wrote:
My R2400 went unused for a long time (2 years?) and was impossible to start back up, even after several cleaning cycles and new ink. In the end I had to put some window cleaner on a foam pad under the jets, IIRC, but eventually got it working again. Still, I much prefer the Epsons to the Canons. Drivers, for example.


I owned only Epsons for over a decade. The 9600 I owned was pretty reliable but it did waste a lot of ink with cleaning cycles due to nozzle clogs. I sold it earlier this year and, of course, the new owner (and friend) almost immediately started having issues. I spent quite a lot of time helping him replace the dampers and get it going again. If you have not used one of the current high end Canon's, they are light years ahead of what Canon used to make. Thus far, ultra reliable and economical in use of ink compared to Epson. Image quality is phenomenal which you would expect from a 12 color system. The drivers for the Epsons have not been good imho since pre-OSX days. I much prefer the 16 bit Photoshop plug in driver of the Canon AND I love storing paper settings as well as actual print jobs right on the built in hard drive of the printer. I don't even have to fire up the computer to make a print which has previously been made! Great for client jobs.

I teach at a school which has an army of Epsons in all sizes. The UltraChrome Epsons are constantly clogging. About the only one I might feel safe with is the 3800 series as it seems to have a better reliability record.



Nov 17, 2011 at 05:27 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Interesting comments, thanks for that, Tariq. I will consider the Canons when I next upgrade.


Nov 18, 2011 at 02:02 AM
Specularist
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


These medium format digital cameras are odd creatures: stratospherically priced, full of bugs and glitches, useless outside their narrow comfort zone. However, their comfort zone is base ISO and artificial light, i.e. practically all the big-money pro stuff. Within this niche the cameras produce fantastic results. The mid-tone noise levels are extremely low and the resolution extremely high, resulting in huge malleability in post-production.

I agree with you that the high-end Nikon SLRs are impressive machines. They even do a credible job of the specialist studio stuff targeted by medium-format cameras, while being vastly better at everything else.

These days I would far rather spend twenty grand on a Broncolor kit than a Hasselblad (not that I'm at any risk of doing either!).



Nov 18, 2011 at 09:44 AM
corposant
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Do you know who supports/ distributes Rollei in the U.S.


http://krimarphoto.com/




Nov 18, 2011 at 11:24 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Hasselblad and other MFDB Systems


corposant wrote:
http://krimarphoto.com/



Looks like mostly repair and used equipment bought and sold. No info on any currently available Rollei stuff I can find. In fact, in their list of links, the first one is for the U.S. Rollei Website. Clicking it results in....404 Error. It's no longer there! Going to what was the main Rollei site in Germany gives you a plethora of low end stuff, including picture frames and low end point and shoot re-branded cameras! Really sad. Looks like what happened to the Polaroid name once they went kaput. So it really looks like Rollei is indeed dead as a new system.



Nov 18, 2011 at 01:46 PM
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