Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
  

Archive 2011 · A question about color correction

  
 
Eyeball
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · A question about color correction


A couple of more observations:

- You posted these in the AdobeRGB color space. They will look correct only when viewed in a color-managed browser like Firefox or Safari. sRGB is currently the best color space for web viewing if your interest is to have them look correct for the greatest quantity of viewers. These images will look less saturated and more washed-out in a non-color-managed browser.

- Your assumption that portrait shots should have color that is as "real" as possible really depends on your artistic vision and the expectations of your clients. I would say there is a significant client base that appreciates "real but pleasing", which may mean adding some slight warmth for example - particularly for North American Caucasians. There are cultural/geographical differences in how people prefer their skin tones to be shown in photographs.

- Are you using the same model and brand for all of your lights? There can be color temperature differences among lights and it is something to be aware of if you are picky about color balance. Different lights on the BG, for example, could account for a slightly more magenta cast there.




Nov 15, 2011 at 10:54 AM
PhotoDes
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · A question about color correction


Ron,

I agree the second sample you posted is too blue, while the first looks very good. I use my eye to adjust flesh tones these days, but I found an old reference that tried to make the process more objective. It said to sample an area of caucasian skin and adjust the brightness values to the ratio 75R, 58G, 49B. For dark skin, the ratio should be 72R, 50G, 39B.

I haven't tried this for ages, but it might be something you want to try.

Des



Nov 15, 2011 at 10:55 AM
dan101
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · A question about color correction


I think the original looks better but needs a little more density. Also, a very slight increase in saturation will improve the look of the skin. The lady's face is definitely more yellow than everyone else's. You might lasso her face and take some of the yellow out until it matches everyone else's skin tone. I also think darkening the corners and the lower third of the photo helps it. Before doing anything you might want to open the image in camera raw and use the recovery slider to bring back some of the white blowouts.


Nov 15, 2011 at 11:23 AM
timhpark
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · A question about color correction


I agree with others that the original is much better. I also adjust temp and tint by eye. And it's not uncommon to have to adjust the color in select faces to match the others.

Tim



Nov 15, 2011 at 12:23 PM
BubbaJon
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · A question about color correction


Eyeball wrote:
A couple of more observations:
- You posted these in the AdobeRGB color space. They will look correct only when viewed in a color-managed browser like Firefox or Safari. sRGB is currently the best color space for web viewing if your interest is to have them look correct for the greatest quantity of viewers. These images will look less saturated and more washed-out in a non-color-managed browser.

Excellent point! I keep forgetting that other folks might not know that color management is an application responsibility for the most part - and that includes browsers.
Check this page to test your browser



Nov 15, 2011 at 12:28 PM
J4644
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · A question about color correction


I think Peter has it.

Jim



Nov 15, 2011 at 01:17 PM
lukeb
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · A question about color correction


BubbaJon wrote:
First off get a colorchecker or passport and use it. It will save you much grief.
Second - these are strobes. Daylight balance. You should be able to select daylight or flash for your photo and be pretty dang close with little if any variation between frames.
Third - a tip. If you're color balancing using the eyedropper tool use a shaded/shadow area of something that is as close to neutral as you can find. There is a better chance of being neutral in the shadows - not the highlights. Assuming his shirt is white use the shadow under the lapel of
...Show more

Agree completely!

Colorchecker or passport is the best investment you can make.



Nov 15, 2011 at 01:31 PM
gpop
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · A question about color correction


>>First off get a colorchecker or passport and use it.

I second this.
one issue I have is that even if I have a perfect WB point to set by, my other colors are not guarantied to fall into place at the same time.
and for me, I judge skin tones as the primary point to 'hit' right. white balance alone gets me close, but the doesn't assure me I'll get what I'm after.

I'll often use more than one camera body, and the passport really helps even things out across different bodies.



Nov 15, 2011 at 01:49 PM
friscoron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · A question about color correction


Thanks, Peter, and everyone else for responding. I am using a calibrated monitor, just re-calibrated it again. I think my taste for color may be different. I'm not saying the second pic I had imbedded was finished, as I recognize it's too cool, but this one by Peter is still a tad warm for me. My problem that I recognize is that it's likely my clients will want the warmer tones, so I need to adjust my taste/editing accordingly.

Extremely glad I put this out today, got lots of really great responses. Thanks, everyone, for participating.

Ron



Nov 15, 2011 at 01:51 PM
alohadave
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · A question about color correction


friscoron wrote:
but this one by Peter is still a tad warm for me.


What looks warm to you? The whites are white, and the skin tones look natural.

Once the file is printed out and put on a wall, minor white balance variances will be very hard to see, especially without seeing a comparison side-by-side.



Nov 15, 2011 at 01:57 PM
Peter Figen
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · A question about color correction


Ron,

If it's still a tad warm, and that is part of the subjective nature of these images, you might try a Hue/Saturation Adjustment Layer, click on the little targeting button, click on one of the faces, and then pull some saturation out of the reds - not too much, maybe minus 7 or 8. In my experience in doing many thousands of images, both the subjects themselves and anyone looking at the images tend to prefer a skintone that is biased a tad warm, at least when the other colors in the image are pretty close to correct - neutral blacks and grays, etc.




Nov 15, 2011 at 01:59 PM
Pfiltz
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · A question about color correction


gpop wrote:
>>First off get a colorchecker or passport and use it.


I'm addicted to mine, as much as I am my hand meter...



Nov 15, 2011 at 02:02 PM
friscoron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · A question about color correction


Peter Figen wrote:
Ron,

If it's still a tad warm, and that is part of the subjective nature of these images, you might try a Hue/Saturation Adjustment Layer, click on the little targeting button, click on one of the faces, and then pull some saturation out of the reds - not too much, maybe minus 7 or 8. In my experience in doing many thousands of images, both the subjects themselves and anyone looking at the images tend to prefer a skintone that is biased a tad warm, at least when the other colors in the image are pretty close to correct -
...Show more

Trust me, I'm not disagreeing with you, Peter. I haven't tried that adjustment layer you just suggested, so I'll give that a try. But I'm definitely going to warm up my skin tone editing.



Nov 15, 2011 at 02:14 PM
friscoron
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · A question about color correction


alohadave wrote:
What looks warm to you? The whites are white, and the skin tones look natural.

Once the file is printed out and put on a wall, minor white balance variances will be very hard to see, especially without seeing a comparison side-by-side.


It's just me, Dave. I look at his face, and it's too red. I look at her next to him, and it's too yellow. But the truth is that he probably has a slight redder tone to his face than she does.

One of the reasons I put this out here today was to see if my subjective look at skin tones were off the norm, and it clearly is. So I need to reign myself in.

Thanks for your input.

Ron



Nov 15, 2011 at 02:16 PM
Opus944
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · A question about color correction


A gray target like this and learning to set a custom white balance will save you a lot of grief and time:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3057/5731972701_54c272218a.jpg

I shoot a test shot with the target for my light set up and set my white balance accordingly. It also lets me get my exposure set at the same time. If the light changes (move to a different location, any change in the ambient light, etc...).

Jerry



Nov 15, 2011 at 02:47 PM
Peter Figen
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · A question about color correction


The other thing that no one has mentioned is that we all see color differently and that a lot of men (much more so than women) have some degree of color blindness. Not saying that this is the case here, but just saying. You monitor calibration device might be out of whack compared to others, and any color you have in your editing room can affect your own color perception as well. Even on a calibrated monitor, you still need to keep your Info Palette open and monitored, as that is still the best tool to tell you whether you've got color casts and to keep general track of what's going on in your image.


Nov 15, 2011 at 03:38 PM
Micky Bill
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · A question about color correction


There is a big difference between correct color (objective) and pleasing color (subjective).
IMO people look better on the warm side than on the cool side....



Nov 15, 2011 at 05:38 PM
rhyder
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · A question about color correction


Hi Ron,
How are you? I use the white balance eye dropper to find a white area that is between 96 and 98 percent and use that to do a quick test. If I don't like what I see I'll undo and use the slider to set it where I think it looks the best.

Check out the November issue of Photoshop User magazine. You'll see some of my recent work.!



Nov 15, 2011 at 06:28 PM
cgardner
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · A question about color correction


The yellow problem with the image you posted is caused by clipping the red channel in the skin due to overexposure. Overexposure of around 1/3 stop will cause skin highlights to start to clip, first in red the dominant color in skin in an RGB file. That in turn gives the skin the odd flat waxy yellow look you are seeing and apparently reacting to. The OOC image is neutral in the non-clippping highlights shown below...

Opening the image in Levels, holding down the alt key (opt on Macs) then clicking the highlight slider reveals any clipping channels. Here's your OOC original version...

http://super.nova.org/EDITS/ClippingReds1.jpg

When faces clip that much in red it indicates exposure is over by about 2/3 stop. The reds in skin shouldn't clip until the highlight slider is moved left, forcing clipping in a normal image, to around 240, 15 units under clipping whites. If made any eye dropper based color correction on those clipping areas they would incorrect, skewed by the clipping.

Checking the non-clippping whites in the image with the info eyedropper I find not perfect but not far off neutral in most:
http://super.nova.org/EDITS/ClippingReds2.jpg

Using the levels eyedropper to snap color to neutral I got this result. I reset the highlight target to 250,250,250 (solid white vs. 255 clipping white) and clicked on the boys collar as indicated:

http://super.nova.org/EDITS/ClippingReds3.jpg

But the click correction on the non-clipping highlight can't fix the blown red channel / yellow waxy look in the blown highlights. You simply need to control exposure better at capture.

As for color management? All you really need is a Kodak R-27 Gray Card Kit, $19.95 at B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=27715&Q=&is=REG&A=details

This proof sheet of a speedlite portrait session shows how I use mine:
http://super.nova.org/TP/MAGLens.jpg

In frame one I shot the card filling the center circle of the viewfinder. That's why you need a larger card. I put the camera in Daylight WB when making this shot.

After setting Custom WB I shot the card again. By comparing the before (Daylight WB) and after (Custom WB) I can gauge how different in color from a daylight WB the light is. The second shot is a editing reference. The card should be and usually is R=G=B when checked with the eyedroppers.

The third shot is an exposure check. I've used the same manual speedlight set-up for 40 years so the exposure is usually correct, as it was here, but I check for clipping anyway using a white towel which shows up well in the camera clipping warning. When it is just barely starting to clip in the camera playback I know from experience using it the RAW file is just where I want it, under clipping. WB and exposure optimal I knocked out the portraits, pose for my shot someone else shot, and was eating the pizza all in about 15 min. In PP I didn't mess with the color because I knew it was correct out of the camera.

The towel gimmick a simple way to avoid the the clipping highlights problem -- the clipping warning in the camera becomes an idiot light, showing when and where clipping highlights are occurring. Get the towel exposed accurately and lighting ratio recording the full range of detail and all the faces and all the other content will look "normal" as seen by eye.

BTW - Checking the shadows of your shot with the alt+click Levels eye dropper trick I see they are clipping also, an indication the shot is under filled in the shadows. The solution to that problem set your lights starting with a black target on a light stand where the subjects will be (a black towel ). Start with just your fill on and raise it until you see detail in the shadows test object. Turn on the key light and raise it until you see the highlighted parts of the white towel placed on the stand barely start to clip. Bingo! You arrive at perfect exposure and a perfect match of scene range to sensor in two easy steps.

With the feedback provided by the camera all that is needed for complete control of exposure and color balance are:

1) A white towel or similar textured object for evaluating clipping / loss of detail in highlights visually.

2) A black towel or similar textured object for evaluating clipping / loss of detail in shadows visually.

3) A $20 Kodak Gray Card. In November 2010 Kodak partnered with X-Rite to revamp the card kit and the card is now MulSel 18% gray. Previously the cards were also neutral, and actually made by Tiffen. More expensive plastic cards will be more durable over the long haul but will not do the job any better.

If you can record a full range of tone and set Custom WB in the camera there will be nothing to adjust on screen because it will be correct "by the numbers" out of camera. If you have a subject hold a gray card in a test shot when you view it on the computer it calibrates your color perception to trust it "by the numbers" (BTN) as your evaluation baseline because it will be R=G=B when measured with the eye dropper tool.

http://super.nova.org/TP/PatrickGrayCard.jpg

Then from that baseline in the RAW editor you can tweek the color from BTN neutral to whatever warm/cool bias you feel the shot needs to convey the mood of of the subject or environment. For example for outdoor shots in the summer I might nudge the color a bit warmer yellow, but for a winter shot I might make it cooler bluish to convey the fact its cold. So the BTN color balance using the gray card is just an objective starting point, not the end destination for the color, but for most shots BTN neutral looks "normal".

The color checker? The colors in the chart have no role is setting WB, but serve as a visual roadmap for how different colors change when styles are used or color balance changed manually. For example here is a RAW shot of my color checked with different styles applied...

http://super.nova.org/TP/Styles480sRGB.jpg

That gave me a more objective understanding of how the styles affected specific colors better than if I simply applied them to camera images.

If you have a MacBeth or similar target and have your subject hold it in a test shot, then work that test shot all the way through to printing with your normal workflow you'll have a better idea how the color will change from capture, editing and printing. At each step you can compare the results with the actual target you shot.

What will be the "best" color? Whatever makes each photo look most normal, despite all the physical limitations of the reproduction process.

Apart from exposure setting the clipping in your file is a result of your lighting strategy. Butterfly lighting works better for groups because it puts the same intensity and pattern of light on all the faces. It is also more flattering than the horizontally crossed lighting pattern it appears you used.

You may find these tutorials of mine helpful:
http://photo.nova.org/DigitalColor/
http://photo.nova.org/GrayCard/
http://photo.nova.org/ColorManagement/
http://photo.nova.org/Groups/


Edited on Nov 16, 2011 at 12:57 PM · View previous versions



Nov 15, 2011 at 08:57 PM
wickerprints
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · A question about color correction


cgardner wrote:
The yellow problem with the image you posted is caused by clipping the red channel in the skin due to overexposure. Overexposure of around 1/3 stop will cause skin highlights to start to clip, first in red the dominant color in skin in an RGB file. That in turn gives the skin the odd flat waxy yellow look you are seeing and apparently reacting to. The OOC image is neutral in the non-clippping highlights shown below...

Apart from exposure setting the clipping in your file is a result of your lighting strategy. Butterfly lighting works better for groups because it puts
...Show more

+2 (one for each of the above)

Notice how the side lighting creates a different effect from left to right, with more pronounced modeling (very strong highlight-to-shadow falloff) at camera left, and more gradual falloff at camera right, due to the inverse square law. This is undesirable in a group shot. Butterfly lighting, with the key positioned more centrally and downward, solves this problem. As it stands, the boy's face is lit a bit too hot relative to the man.



Nov 15, 2011 at 09:19 PM
1      
2
       3       end




FM Forums | People Photography | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.