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Archive 2011 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?
  
 
Rich M
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p.35 #1 · p.35 #1 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


michaelwatkins wrote:
Thanks for the detail - I sampled the Sonnar's dreamy effect and have come around to thinking that I don't need a lens that specialized. It is so very different than my other lenses and in a way that holds appeal but in this case I think I'd rather go with crisper and familiar.


Michael.....I agree with everything Edward, KK and Ron have said about the Sonnar. The Planar is definitely the safer bet, especially if one is looking for the more modern look. Lately, I have seen the Planars for half the cost of the Sonnar, so it makes good economic sense also.
However, after owning the Sonnar, it would be just about the last lens in my kit I would get rid off, mainly because of the unique character.

bluetsunami.....I tried to find the thread you spoke of ("volumetric" look).....but couldn't find it. Could you direct me?

Regards....R



Feb 25, 2012 at 05:26 PM
bluetsunami
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p.35 #2 · p.35 #2 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Rich M wrotebluetsunami.....I tried to find the thread you spoke of ("volumetric" look).....but couldn't find it. Could you direct me?

Regards....R


Here you go!

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1068292/0#10160618



Feb 25, 2012 at 05:29 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.35 #3 · p.35 #3 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Thanks, everyone, for your feedback.

I've been contemplating selling my 75/2.5, and not for any one reason. I don't actively dislike the character of the CV75/2.5 lens but tend to prefer the result I get from my others, at least for more subjects than not.

Perhaps it is the season but I don't find myself using the 75 that much on a crop camera. Our gloomy grey period over the winter seems to stretch on and on with only brief interludes of light or interesting gloom. The longer focal length I'm finding more challenging than expected to work hand-held, unless good light is present.


kosmoskatten wrote:
Michael; I have the ZM 50 as well as the 75 Summarit. They are quite similar in character. Had I known this I might not have gotten the Summarit since they are so close in focal length. Think this over if you do not sorely need a 75.


That is a helpful observation. The 50 being slightly faster and slightly shorter than my 75 will be useful in more situations too, and I do miss having a 50mm available on the GXR - this was a useful focal length on the NEX I found.

Thanks folks for helping me think through this. A dreamy 40 - 55mm might be in my future down the road but as a less often used lens, perhaps I could even go to an adapted SLR optic and save a few dollars, or a CV, or an older and less modern design without the current day price tag. At any rate I can put that off for future consideration.


Edited on Feb 25, 2012 at 06:44 PM · View previous versions



Feb 25, 2012 at 06:29 PM
Rich M
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p.35 #4 · p.35 #4 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


bluetsunami wrote:
Here you go!

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1068292/0#10160618


Thanks......I think......THAT made my head spin.

R



Feb 26, 2012 at 01:51 AM
bluetsunami
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p.35 #5 · p.35 #5 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Rich M wrote:
Thanks......I think......THAT made my head spin.

R




For those interested here's an example of the ZM 50 C wide open in a scene it works best in....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41243066@N05/5983835679/

I think the Planar would have been a little too direct for this scene. The way the Sonnar handles edges and blur transition (very slow vs. sudden) works very well for organic things. Interestingly the Sonnar gets nearly as sharp as the Planar stopped down. In that sense it has that fascinating duality the 35/1.4 Z* has.



Feb 26, 2012 at 03:14 AM
kosmoskatten
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p.35 #6 · p.35 #6 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


To hopefully put a gracious end to the moiré debate I am posting this sample. It was suggested that I would reshoot the previous scene in more contrasty light, so here it is. It is as contrasty as it gets.

I am only including the 100% crop as the rest of the image is of no interest. Also, the window at my study does not open more than enough for me to barely squeeze the camera through (we have three cats and usually keep the slit open) so it is hard to see what you are doing and keep it level.

Noteworthy is that I shot it at wide open, f4 on the ZM18/4 in order to not soften the image with diffraction and hide moiré. I sharpened it a bit and applied a local contrast enhancement in order to try and lure out the moiré monster:


nohereeither by koruNZ, on Flickr

There is a very slight hint of false color, if you press your nose to the screen, but as far as I am concerned I think that if it is this mild when looking at blinds and a corrugated steel balcony across the street in harsh light - and totally uncorrected, then by all means, I can live with it. Looking at 50%, which I usually do before printing as I find that it will mimic the printing well, it looks damn near perfect.

That Zeiss ZM18/4 is verrry sharp across the entire frame on APS-C wide open. Vignetting is quite mild, on APS-C, and not objectionable.

EDIT;
window frames come across as uneven, but trust me, they are. The last renovators used up a lot of caulk and were not too smooth about it so the window frames look a bit uneven to the naked eye in this light.


Edited on Feb 26, 2012 at 02:36 PM · View previous versions



Feb 26, 2012 at 02:13 PM
kosmoskatten
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p.35 #7 · p.35 #7 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Ah, what the heck, here is the full image, no adjustments, shot at between f8/f11:

fullimage by koruNZ, on Flickr

Straight crop at f8/11, no sharpening in post:

f11crop by [url=http:[email protected]/]ko


Both images are resized but left unsharpened and come across as a little soft after uploading, but I left them untouched. My conclusion is that moiré is not much of an issue on the GXR M mount, provided that you use a good RAW converter. I would say it is fairly resilient, but not impervious to moiré.

The main gripe is the slow shot to shot speed if you are shooting fleeting moments where you simply cannot rely on your timing alone. I don't do that too often, but I would like to see that improved. C'mon Ricoh!




Feb 26, 2012 at 02:28 PM
kosmoskatten
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p.35 #8 · p.35 #8 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


I had some time to compare the ZM18 to the CV15 today and came to the conclusion that they are both excellent but I will probably have to keep them both. I was thinking of selling the ZM18 as I find the CV15 definitely good enough on crop cameras and very small to boot. That would have fed the piggy bank for sure as the ZM18 is pricey, but today it showed that it is a "better" lens.

For indoor shots I prefer the CV15 for the extra width. For outdoor shots the ZM18 looks better for architectural shots as the distortion is noticeably less where as the CV15 has visible distortion, not necessarily of the ugly kind, but there it is. Also, barrel action and focusing is much better on the ZM18. At times I lose track of the little focusing tab on the CV15 and the barrel is not as smooth turning, my helicoid must be a bit oval as it doesn't turn evenly across the range.

Both lenses are sharp enough and if I had gotten the CV15 first I might not have gotten the ZM18 at all. Now that I had it before I find myself reluctant to let it go as it is a great pairing with the ZM50. I have the 18mm Zeiss finder for it if/when a full frame solution appears so it would make sense to hold on to it I guess. Both will focus down to 0.5M so no difference there either. The CV15 was so cheap, in comparison, that keeping it is a no brainer.

The 35/1.2 continues to impress me. It is quite sharp already at f1.2 but the DoF is very thin so it takes a little skill to nail it at times. It does not suit every type of subject but I will have to find use for it to shine I guess. It is a hefty piece of glass but every time I start thinking it is a little big I keep reminding myself of the full frame SLR glass I used to haul around.



Feb 26, 2012 at 03:02 PM
rscheffler
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p.35 #9 · p.35 #9 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Or that 16mm shorter length and 150g less weight will cost you about 5x more for the 35 Lux FLE... and still possibly have some focus shift (though not a big deal on an EVF camera)... There probably is a rendering difference between the Leica and the CV, but the CV sure is a great lens in its own right.


Feb 26, 2012 at 09:40 PM
Rich M
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p.35 #10 · p.35 #10 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Great discussion.

I'll go ahead and post a few pictures from today......ZM50 Sonnar wide open.

http://lanaihale.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v9/p491031074-5.jpg

http://lanaihale.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v40/p199355889-5.jpg

R




Feb 27, 2012 at 02:18 AM
 

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michaelwatkins
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p.35 #11 · p.35 #11 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Nice Rich. I'm sure it is selection bias at work as fewer folks post awful results from any lens, but I must admit that many ZM50 Sonnar photographs very often look enchanting.

I only had 30 minutes to play with a local's ZM50 Sonnar and couldn't really tell the measure of the lens in that short time other than it was quite different to my other ZMs.



Feb 27, 2012 at 05:46 AM
zhangyue
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p.35 #12 · p.35 #12 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


I don't have GXR but do have Sonnar. It is pretty sharp at wide open to me. Maybe close to ZF35/85 1.4 lens. And it is contrast and vivid wide open in focus area and have very special OF rendering. It seems have more blur to its aperture. and subject like floating in the background for its pretty sharp render in focus plane.

The Negative I have is minimal focus distance 0.9M, A huge off to me, and soft corner even after f5.6. Make it less versatile lens for traveling if you want do occasionally landscape or city shot. In that sense ZM/ZF planar seems better option. This is either hated or loved lens with strong character. If it can do stop down shot, I see no deed for 50lux for me, but it is not.

A wide open sample:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7169/6542524195_4dc55e1d8a_b.jpg



Feb 27, 2012 at 11:36 PM
rscheffler
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p.35 #13 · p.35 #13 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Very nice Sonnar images Rich! And thanks for your perspective Michael (zhangyue)! My guess is on the GXR you're not going to see a lot of the extreme edge issues you would on an M9, as Michael mentioned. If you look at the Sonnar's MTFs, by f/4 it has decent edge performance up to 15mm, or in other words, for APS-C. On paper it still shouldn't be as sharp as the Planar, but in reality probably isn't that different stopped down. But unlike the Planar, it's going to give you more of that 'character' at wider apertures, if that is what you want, and will be somewhat tamed on the GXR vs. a FF sensor.



Feb 28, 2012 at 01:07 AM
atran
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p.35 #14 · p.35 #14 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Hi all,

I am still in the process of selling up of my gear and can't acquire the GXR combo yet but in the mean time I want to ask if you guys can post some portrait samples with the ZM 35/2 and the GXR? Is it too clinical at f2-f2.8? I once tried to some portraits with my old 50D combo and ZE 35/2 and the results are massive amount of work in PP to fix up the skin imperfection

Thank you,

An



Feb 28, 2012 at 01:56 AM
zhangyue
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p.35 #15 · p.35 #15 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Ron, you are right about issue is only happen at extreme corner. I forget about APS-C factor. In that sense, Sonnar is the lens to have with duel charactor stop down and useable wide open.




Feb 28, 2012 at 07:45 AM
michaelwatkins
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p.35 #16 · p.35 #16 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


atran wrote:
In the mean time I want to ask if you guys can post some portrait samples with the ZM 35/2 and the GXR? Is it too clinical at f2-f2.8? I once tried to some portraits with my old 50D combo and ZE 35/2 and the results are massive amount of work in PP to fix up the skin imperfection


I know what you are talking about there - some lenses I just don't want to shoot portraits with. Maybe I'm still on the fence with respect to the Planar or Sonnar 50 after all, especially since for the foreseeable future it'll only be used on an APS-C camera.

If I find something that will help you atran I'll post it later this morning. It's time for sleep now in my time zone.





Feb 28, 2012 at 08:26 AM
Rich M
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p.35 #17 · p.35 #17 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


There is something with the Sonnar and the sensor also.......not just APS-C ........but the shots with the Sonnar and the GXR are, in no other words, appealing to me.

I have shot it on my 5N and the shots hold no emotion. I'll shoot the Planar on the 5N. Funny.

http://lanaihale.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v36/p311732321-5.jpg

For me, the center sharpness wide open is adequate and the edge fall off is exactly what I am looking for.

R



Feb 28, 2012 at 03:07 PM
partitura
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p.35 #18 · p.35 #18 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Kosmoskatten - will you let us know if you hear any news of an upgraded GXR body or M-mount module?


Feb 28, 2012 at 03:16 PM
atran
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p.35 #19 · p.35 #19 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


Just for those who are interested in the 50 Sonnar, it's in stock right now at B&H photo. Be fast
@Mike: thank you very much.



Feb 28, 2012 at 04:11 PM
kosmoskatten
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p.35 #20 · p.35 #20 · Still no love for the Ricoh GXR?


partitura: I am afraid I haven't spoken with the rep in a while. At the time they were fairly certain they would upgrade the A12 soon-ish. After the flooding and after the Pentax purchase there is a lot of reorganizing and restructuring. Apparently Pentax is taking over production of Ricoh cameras as well, what happens with the synergy - who knows?

There will be a little rummaging around I guess, before Ricoh and Pentax sort out their baggage and get on with it. Pentax have a fairly serious commitment with new lenses and that new camera and all that is backed up by Ricoh, financially.

There was talk recently about a GXR II with articulated LCD and if all things get sorted they might get back with yet another road map. I don't think they will scrap the GXR line, or the GRD line, but the CX cameras might be sucked up into the Pentax P&S program. I don't think they will lay down the Ricoh R&D but the merger will probably mean a little snooping around and possibly a R&D department merger.

I think development has stalled due to the merger but I also think Ricoh R&D consists of talented and committed people and that they can figure out where to go from here. I don't think anything will happen overnight but I guess both sides are keen on getting started.


RichM; very nice image. I like the drawing style of that lens.









Feb 28, 2012 at 05:11 PM
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