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Archive 2011 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8
  
 
Gunzorro
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


Larry -- Well, it is a Canon forum!

Seriously, the Zeiss products are awesome, and none finer than the 21/2.8. I love its color and contrast, and if I don't need the shift, I usually reach for the ZE lens.

But I stand by my decision in favor of the Canon due to the additional usefulness of the 24TSII -- it really is a multi-faceted gem.



Aug 31, 2011 at 05:04 AM
ViscaB
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


What I forgot to mention of the usefulness of a TSE is if you like the square format. I often find myself in situations where a square crop is the best. Having the ability to "shift" your way to a square format is one of the things I have grown to appreciate a lot.

A few examples. N.B. higher res versions are on flickr.


THE GLOBE by xavibarca, on Flickr



The night is yours alone by xavibarca, on Flickr



Aug 31, 2011 at 05:09 AM
saneproduction
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


Where can I find the tilt table you are talking about?


Aug 31, 2011 at 05:31 AM
Mike K
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


Gunzorro wrote:
Mike -- Why do you feel these newer TS lenses need practice at the adjustments compared to the earlier versions (35FD, 24, 45, and 90)? The 24TS II seems easier, smoother and more versatile to adjust than the original versions. And much easier than a 4x5 view camera and loupe!

LV is a wonderful option/luxury, if you have it. This lens would seem to be a perfect match to the 5D2 or 1Ds3.


I did use the 24 TSE I on a 1D II with various viewfinder screens and found tilt adjustment very, very difficult. The knobs and locks on version 1 Vs version II of the 24 TSE is not too different other than the independent rotation of the the shift Vs tilt axis. Great improvement. Basically I consider Live View 5-10X to be absolutely essential for accurate low angle tilt adjustment. In good conscience I would not recommend a tilt lens unless you have Live View with magnification. If your standing up with a 17 TSE there is hardly any tilt at all, half a degree plus or minus 0.1 degree. The Tilt table is a good starting place.







That is not true at all if you are using a 90 TSE and you run out of tilt adjustment (8 degrees) as you get lower than kneeling. With both the 17 ad 24 TSE have lots of tilt as the camera lens center approaches 6-8" from the deck. Thats how close I needed to be for the Golden Gate shot n my previous post #6 this thread. How do you see the LCD for Live View, and move the 5-10X spot around the frame to accurately assess tilt and focus accuracy when the sand is too soupy too lay down? How do you get that low when you can't lay down? Its exactly like the large format shooter with loupe but no black cloth over your head. If you don't have Live Vew you can try an angle finder. Not a useful solution for me, I sold mine. 2.5x magnification cuts off the portion of the edges frame you want to see







I got this one by setting up the camera 4" off the sand and laying down on a dry beach to adjust the tilt and focus. I then carefully lifted the splayed legs of the tripod and walked out while the wave cycle was receeding. I made a few blind shots picked up the camera and scurried back to safer territory. I had to straighten the shot in post so lost quite a bit of the bubbles in the bottom of the frame.

I have started various threads on this forum and other using aftermarket LCD viewfinders to project the view upwards for these applications. If anyone is using an HDMI output LCD viewfinder I would like to hear about it. I ended up with the aputure Gigtube and find it marginal for low level tilt and focus adjustments due to its low pixel count.

Before Live view 5-10X you needed even more practice to use the TSE v1 lenses! The next generation Sony dSLR have a 2M pixel OLED viewfinder, I hope the next Canon 1Ds IV or 5DIII will have a better yet LCD.
Mike K



Aug 31, 2011 at 05:40 AM
saneproduction
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


That is such a helpful post! Awesome!

You way want to look at some of the new EVF options that are popping up for DSLR filmmakers. My friend just got the Zacuto EVF, bit spendy but nice. I will start looking at other cheaper options for this application.



Aug 31, 2011 at 06:07 AM
saneproduction
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


http://www.cinema5d.com/viewforum.php?f=96&sid=b0a9314b083bee280604d15000488d98

EVF forum may be a good place to start



Aug 31, 2011 at 06:10 AM
Mike K
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


saneproduction wrote:
That is such a helpful post! Awesome!

You way want to look at some of the new EVF options that are popping up for DSLR filmmakers
.


You are correct, they are being developed for video dSLR application. I started a few threads on this topic of listing LCD viewfinders. From memory there is a newer Sony, another from Marshall and a few other smaller companies. The ones feeding off of HDMI dSLR output tend to run $500 upwards when you include the power, rechargers, connectors, etc.



Aug 31, 2011 at 04:17 PM
Lasse Eriksson
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


I would not sell the Zeiss 21 It's so good


Aug 31, 2011 at 04:24 PM
 

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AbramG
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


I have the Zeiss 21 and I absolutely love that lens. I actually was debating between the 17 TS-E and the 24 TS-E and wound up going with the 17 for the purpose of architecture and interiors (can't really go too wide in that scenario). I am eager to use the two side by side, but I must admit that the thought did cross my mind to replace the Zeiss with the 24 TS-E.

I'm kind of doubting I will make that switch, but you never know...



Aug 31, 2011 at 10:52 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


As of today, I have both the TS-E 24/3.5L II and ZE 21/2.8. I think I'll be keeping both of them.

Here's four example photos taken this afternoon with my new Distagon, at f/8 on a 1DsIII. Each example photo is shown as a matching pair, and so there are a total of eight images. For each pair, the top image is the 100% crop 'of interest', and the bottom image is the PS CS5 'Navigator' full view of the entire photo, with a red box to show the location of the preceeding 100% crop.

P.S. sorry for the perspective distortion, which is most apparent in the third photo. I must have been higher than I thought.






















Aug 31, 2011 at 11:16 PM
Richard Nye
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


Wow, that is sharp!


Sep 01, 2011 at 03:01 AM
kevindar
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


tagged. love the 24 tse. gotta read more thorugh recommendations.



Sep 01, 2011 at 04:18 PM
lms1
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


Both shots are excellent I "really" feel that second shot is sharp.


Larry



Sep 02, 2011 at 03:20 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


A few years back I got hooked on TS. I tried alt lenses but eventually settled for the 24/3.5 II as my wide TS. The 21/2.8 has great IQ and BQ but as it can't move it's a bit, well... boring.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Sep 02, 2011 at 10:56 AM
Cinstance
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


Mike K wrote:
I did use the 24 TSE I on a 1D II with various viewfinder screens and found tilt adjustment very, very difficult. The knobs and locks on version 1 Vs version II of the 24 TSE is not too different other than the independent rotation of the the shift Vs tilt axis. Great improvement. Basically I consider Live View 5-10X to be absolutely essential for accurate low angle tilt adjustment. In good conscience I would not recommend a tilt lens unless you have Live View with magnification. If your standing up with a 17 TSE there is hardly any
...Show more

Thank for sharing the table. It looks like a simple rule can be derived from it quite easily, so there is no need to bring the table:

Use 17mm as the base, the angle (in degree) times height(in m) should be 1. Now when the focal length increases, the multiple just increases proportionally. So for 24mm it is 1.4, and for 35mm it should be 2 etc. Quite easy to remember.

C



Sep 02, 2011 at 07:15 PM
Mike K
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8


Cinstance wrote:
Use 17mm as the base, the angle (in degree) times height(in m) should be 1. Now when the focal length increases, the multiple just increases proportionally. So for 24mm it is 1.4, and for 35mm it should be 2 etc. Quite easy to remember.


Good catch of the approximate algorithm. In any case for precise use the table is just a starting place as it is quite difficult to measure the actual distance of the center of the sensor to the desired focus plane. There is no substitute for magnified visual assessment of Live view to fine tune the tilt/focus adjustments.
It is useful to note what your tilt would be standing and kneeling with your TSE focal length and use that as a default. Those settings may be close enough to cover many siturations as described here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/focusing-ts.shtml

Mike K




Sep 02, 2011 at 08:24 PM
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