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Archive 2011 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL
  
 
j.liam
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


nixland wrote:
By the way I wonder why the CA of V125 is higher than Zeiss on slrlensreview.com macro lens test.

http://slrlensreview.com/web/benchmarks-resources-131/134-macro-challenge/521-macro-challenge-part-1.html


The variability in construction is likely to be higher in the lower-cost CV than the Zeiss or Leica and that might account for the CA that SLR Lens reviews purports detecting. Remember that perfect apochromaticity requires very tight tolerances. Few lenses acheive this despite the label (both Bjorn Rorslett and Lloyd Chambers have noted CA on the CV 4/180 APO). However, SLR Lens reviews concludes that the three are such high-performers that differences are ultimately small and other factors Should weigh into a decision to buy, such as a availability, specific rendering styles, the need for an extra stop, longer FL or 1:1 without extension tubes, warranty and auto aperture to name a few.

Lloyd Chambers sizes up the Z* 100 against the Leica 100 Elmarit and arrives at a similar conclusion as slrlensreview does (subscription to Lloyd's site is required for this link):

http://diglloyd.com/prem/prot/ZF/publish/100MakroPlanar-compare-Leica100.html

One line from this review says it best: "...these lenses perform to such a high level that it was very hard to guarantee that absolutely best focus was achieved".



Jul 11, 2011 at 11:06 AM
helimat
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


I suspect you have a sub-par 125/2.5... I have a Canon mount version, and I can tell you that it is sharp right from wide open, nothing like your example that's for sure.


Jul 11, 2011 at 02:27 PM
sebboh
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


Almass wrote:
2- They state that the Bokeh is subjective, which is fine, and that the APO100 has the "harshest" Bokeh. I disagree with this statement and my own test showed that the APO100 has the smoothest Bokeh.


your shots seem to confirm what review said, the leica has the hardest edged bokeh and comes closest to showing double lines while the voigtlander shows the softest bokeh. which you prefer is obviously down to personal preference. it may also be that the softer bokeh of the voigtlander is simply due to the difference in focal length that can never really be controlled for. my suspicion is that the voigtlander is a little lower in microcontrast in addition to resolution and this contributes to a softer bokeh.

what aperture were the shots at?

edit: the leica also seems to have the greatest dof while the voigtlander has the least, this could just be focal length differences or lens design could play a role as well.



Jul 11, 2011 at 02:39 PM
AhamB
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


In the crops the Zeiss bokeh is notably softer than the Leica. The OOF white flowers on the right have lots of bright edges in the Leica shot. The Voigtländer has a FL advantage so naturally it has more blurring capacity.

Perhaps the bright/hard edges of the Leica are simply a sign of stronger correction of SA, which could explain why it is sharper (and has a bit more DOF).

When opening the images in new tabs the differences in color rendering are interesting. I think Leica has the richest pallette and the Voigtländer the poorest. The Voigtländer is warmer than the others and the Zeiss is coolest. I think I like the Leica color best here.

@sebboh: The used apertures are seen in the bottom of each picture. All f/2.8.



Jul 11, 2011 at 04:51 PM
MichaD
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


Guys. I am a proud owner of an CV 125 and I would not be surprised the slightest if the Leica and Zeiss are sharper (those shots aren't focused identically though).
It has quite a bit of SA I think. There's also a bit of LoCA wide open (relatively speaking, it's not much and needs quite a bit of oof) which seems to completely vanish at f/4 or so, and I mean completely, not a trace. LaCA is as far as I can tell totally absent at any aperture. I think it is optimized for 1:10 or so, closer to infinity it seems to be less sharp in the corners. They really aren't that great. I had another copy on my 20D which was also decentered (left side softer wide open).
The only thing I can not concur with is the bokeh! From all I've seen so far the CV is much more to my liking than any of the others.



Jul 11, 2011 at 07:45 PM
nixland
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


Wow, thanks for the comparison shots, Almass. Very helpful.
Could you post the CA comparison shot? Silver jewelry or water scene maybe?

By the way the auction price of the Nikon mount on eBay is skyrocketing to $1,825 (5 days left) .... mammamiaa ..



Jul 14, 2011 at 01:35 AM
Almass
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


helimat wrote:
I suspect you have a sub-par 125/2.5... I have a Canon mount version, and I can tell you that it is sharp right from wide open, nothing like your example that's for sure.


I don't think that the Voigt 125 in my possession is "sub-par".

In fact, I own 2 Voigt 125. One brand new boxed and the second mint boxed. You can easily see the lens condition in my earlier post. It is as mint as they come!

I understand some frustration among owners of the Voigt 125 when it is knocked of it's pedestal. But the posted test of the lenses tell the story.



Jul 14, 2011 at 07:56 AM
Almass
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


- sebboh - AhamB
As you mention, the Bokeh is a bit subjective, my main beef with the Voigt 125 is not so much for the Bokeh but more with the color and render and specially that the Voigt 125 in it's center is softer than the APO100 and ZF2/100.

The pics tell the story, sebboh prefers the Voigt and AhamB prefers the APO100.

- j.liam
As for Loyd, he did not do a side by side test but commented on different photography and yes he is correct when he says that the lenses differences are quite small and we are splitting hairs. But, there is always a ranking even in top lenses and the ranking is not on the build of the lens - hood...etc but the lowest common denominator is the lens rendering qualities and the rest is to each person needs.

I am fine either way as I have the three of them and maybe I should do another test adding the Nikkor 135/2D......when time permits

PS. Ohh, as nixland mentioned, the Voigt 125 Ais is now at USD1825 on the bay with yet 5 more days to go. Curious to know where it will end up?
Place your bets gentlemen!



Jul 14, 2011 at 08:11 AM
Almass
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


nixland wrote:
Wow, thanks for the comparison shots, Almass. Very helpful.
Could you post the CA comparison shot? Silver jewelry or water scene maybe?

By the way the auction price of the Nikon mount on eBay is skyrocketing to $1,825 (5 days left) .... mammamiaa ..


You're welcome.

I will try to do CA shots but it will not be before min couple of weeks.
I will also add the Nikkor 135/2D for good measure



Jul 14, 2011 at 08:19 AM
helimat
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


Almass wrote:
I don't think that the Voigt 125 in my possession is "sub-par".

In fact, I own 2 Voigt 125. One brand new boxed and the second mint boxed. You can easily see the lens condition in my earlier post. It is as mint as they come!

I understand some frustration among owners of the Voigt 125 when it is knocked of it's pedestal. But the posted test of the lenses tell the story.


Bullshit. I wasn't offended by my lens being knocked off it's pedestal, I simply disagree with your findings. My copy sharper than that wide open, period. I can accept that the other two might be sharper, sure... However the sample you provided for the CV just isn't in line with how my copy performs. Additionally, regardless of how minty a lens is on the outside, exterior appearance is never a guarantee of proper alignment and/or calibration internally. I am not talking out of my ass here.

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjr6tb7a



Jul 14, 2011 at 03:18 PM
 

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Almass
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


I don't mind you're disagreeing, but can we keep the language clean please.

Thank you



Jul 14, 2011 at 04:36 PM
helimat
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


Almass wrote:
I don't mind you're disagreeing, but can we keep the language clean please.

Thank you


Give me a break.



Jul 15, 2011 at 03:41 PM
StevenPA
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


This lens isn't (or shouldn't be) defined by its sharpness. It's most certainly not as sharp wide open as the Zeiss or Leica. What should define the CV is its APO exceptional performance for its MSRP price. We should remember that this lens was $600-$700 when first introduced, a fraction of the cost of the Zeiss or Leica. Of course that doesn't matter much now, and I'm surprised at prices these days.

In my experience, this lens is as sharp as you'd ever want starting at about f/4.5, less (but still) sharp wide open at closer distances, and less sharp wide open at longer distances. Further, I don't think Almass's crop is representative of the CV (maybe the wind blew).

One thing you'll notice with the CV125 is how tonally muted the images are straight out of camera. The files can take, and need, a steep contrast curve in post. This might be another reason that the contrast-y Zeiss and Leica lenses look comparatively good in Almass's comparison.

5D, CV125, f/2.5, 100% crop is unprocessed
http://www.pbase.com/stevenpa/image/136442815/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/stevenpa/image/136442816/original.jpg

5D, CV125, f/3.5, 100% crops are unprocessed
http://www.pbase.com/stevenpa/image/96113880/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/stevenpa/image/96654711/original.jpg



Jul 15, 2011 at 04:47 PM
helimat
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


Not for a second would I suggest that the CV 125/2.5 should be 'defined' by it's sharpness. However, the 'test' Almass posted is hardly scientific, and certainly not in line with my copy of the CV 125/2.5.




Jul 15, 2011 at 05:33 PM
StevenPA
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


What would define the CV125 for you? The auto aperture? (I believe this was one of the first lenses to offer such a convenience for Canon alt users.) The APO characteristics? And for others willing to pay such a premium for this lens, what's the attraction? Just asking...


Jul 15, 2011 at 07:21 PM
AhamB
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


I think the APO characteristic is one of the main reasons that people are willing to pay the premium for this lens. I've seen people bashing the Zeiss 100/2 MP for its LoCA and saying that's it's too expensive for a lens with so that degree of CA. In some cases the green/magenta bokeh CA is disappointing, I'm sure. I guess it makes it less suitable for dedicated macro use (coupled to the fact that it doesn't do 1:1 like the CV125). I wouldn't buy the Zeiss for macro use only, to be honest. I admire it most for it's all-round character, at all focus distances.


Jul 15, 2011 at 07:55 PM
j.liam
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


helimat wrote:
Not for a second would I suggest that the CV 125/2.5 should be 'defined' by it's sharpness. However, the 'test' Almass posted is hardly scientific, and certainly not in line with my copy of the CV 125/2.5.


A n=1, as 'Helimat' implies does not a scientific analysis make. Likewise, ever so slight inaccuracies in focus will make conclusions meaningless. And sample variation on the lower priced Vogtländer (new, $999 vs Leica $5000 vs Zeiss $1800) is likely to have been greater. Testing 2nd hand equipment that hasn't been checked out and adjusted to spec, without knowing what it went through previously even if it looks mint, is another variable.

StevenPA wrote:
What would define the CV125 for you? The auto aperture? (I believe this was one of the first lenses to offer such a convenience for Canon alt users.) The APO characteristics? And for others willing to pay such a premium for this lens, what's the attraction? Just asking...


Sharpness and all of the above and more.



Jul 15, 2011 at 10:59 PM
sebboh
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


StevenPA wrote:
What would define the CV125 for you? The auto aperture? (I believe this was one of the first lenses to offer such a convenience for Canon alt users.) The APO characteristics? And for others willing to pay such a premium for this lens, what's the attraction? Just asking...


apo is a huge plus for macro as is 1:1 without an adapter. i'm also attracted to it's gentler rendering of oof areas since so much tends to be oof with macros. the lens seems plenty sharp as well. frankly, the example almass posted doesn't look unsharp to me, it just looks lower in local contrast (and overall contrast) with narrower dof. the in focus portion doesn't look like it is losing much to the other lenses in resolution. having said that, i'm not willing to pay the lenses current prices for it, but $1000 seems pretty tempting.



Jul 15, 2011 at 11:12 PM
jcolwell
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


Well, for only $325 [M-], the Mamiya M645 A 120/4 Macro is a pretty darned good 1:1 macro lens.


Jul 15, 2011 at 11:18 PM
nixland
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Versions? Voigtlander 125mm APO Lanthar SL


I hope Samyang hires the designers of this legendary lens and make a new V125 with affordable price



Jul 15, 2011 at 11:47 PM
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