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Archive 2016 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar

  
 
Alfredo Mora
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p.49 #1 · p.49 #1 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Just received my Loxia 85 this afternoon. From the few handheld images I took, this lens looks and performs excellently. Wonderfully sharp and lovely microcontrast. Actually it appears to be a bit sharper than my Loxia 21. I'll share a few test images later on. The lens is dense and solidly built. Actually I was expecting it to be heavier and bigger. The manual control is buttery smooth and precise. I wasn't expecting for the lens to extend out when focusing. That's ok though. So my initial impressions are very favorable!


Jan 12, 2017 at 07:00 PM
photomadnz
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p.49 #2 · p.49 #2 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Just had a bit more of a test with mine today also. I have an excellent Batis 85mm here at work that I decided to do some comparisions with also. This particular copy of the Batis is has proven to be excellent against others in this catagory.

Well the Loxia just put the Batis back on the shelf.... It really is a top lens!



Jan 12, 2017 at 08:12 PM
Alfredo Mora
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p.49 #3 · p.49 #3 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Here are some test images from the Loxia 85 f2.4 lens and some 100% crops. No sharpening or other edits applied. These are SOOC RAWs. All handheld except for the first in which I had my camera resting on a table.






















Jan 12, 2017 at 10:26 PM
philip_pj
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p.49 #4 · p.49 #4 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


It's quite delicious reading/hearing reviews of the L85 by regular (i.e. non-enthusiast) reviewers. Lost for 'faults' to fill their clueless reviews with, they fall back on the old faithful - it's too slow! Uh, for what, may one ask? Such reports are formulaic lens reviews for a formula-driven audience; it's a match made in cookie cutter heaven, lol.

Another big L85 win is no need for profiles - distortion is a mild 1% pincushion, vignette is also good at 52% illumination - for comparison, other lenses include: Summarit 90/2.5: 37%, Batis 85/1.8: 45%, Summ 90AA: 46%, Otus 85/1.4: 30%, Zeiss 100MP: 36%, Milvus 85/1.4: 27% - all wide open, higher figure means less vignette.

So that's another big benefit of 'ready for action wide open' slower portrait lenses, but the real killer is its f2.4 performance will squash many faster lenses at f2.4, where many are still wrestling with unruly aberrations. Apertures starting with a '2' happen to be where many sensible photographers shoot portraits, if they (like me) prefer more woman and less blur. Slower portrait lenses also deliver 'informing bokeh' - well-outlined image elements to provide context, rather than the massive blur outs the fast 85s deliver WO.

dig, I like that the (very traditional) lens extension is quite minimal down to average portrait distances (3-4m), and the (well-flocked) hood is very protective - unlike say, the GM 24-70, which looks like the monster in Alien just before it whacks its next victim:
http://www.photozone.de/sonyalphaff/997-sony2470f28gm

Batis 85 is very strong but has some outer frame curvature of field which settles at f8 or so; and has weaker outer frames @f2.8 than L85 @f2.4, but with a stronger center; it suits many users, but overcooked 11/8 complex design, lots of moving parts (OSS/AF) - might not last so well. I would not want to drop the L85 on my foot, handle with care! A little known secret of the ZE/F 100MP is its very even cross-frame IQ, this Loxia is quite similar but at a much higher level; the L85 is almost exactly as strong @f2.4 as the 100MP is @f4 (the $$$ glass at work).



Jan 12, 2017 at 11:52 PM
snapsy
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p.49 #5 · p.49 #5 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


philip_pj wrote:
It's quite delicious reading/hearing reviews of the L85 by regular (i.e. non-enthusiast) reviewers. Lost for 'faults' to fill their clueless reviews with, they fall back on the old faithful - it's too slow! Uh, for what, may one ask? Such reports are formulaic lens reviews for a formula-driven audience; it's a match made in cookie cutter heaven, lol.

hmm, I searched for the negative reviews you speak of and couldn't find them. Links?



Jan 13, 2017 at 01:06 AM
Chris_88
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p.49 #6 · p.49 #6 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


philip_pj wrote:
It's quite delicious reading/hearing reviews of the L85 by regular (i.e. non-enthusiast) reviewers. Lost for 'faults' to fill their clueless reviews with, they fall back on the old faithful - it's too slow! Uh, for what, may one ask? Such reports are formulaic lens reviews for a formula-driven audience; it's a match made in cookie cutter heaven, lol.

Another big L85 win is no need for profiles - distortion is a mild 1% pincushion, vignette is also good at 52% illumination - for comparison, other lenses include: Summarit 90/2.5: 37%, Batis 85/1.8: 45%, Summ 90AA: 46%, Otus 85/1.4: 30%, Zeiss
...Show more

Philip, I don't know what reviews you are referring to exactly, but when reading customer reviews on Japanese websites I sometimes get annoyed when people bash a lens they just bought, because it's too big/too slow/too whatever. It's not as if they bought a jack-in-the-box without knowing whether the jack that comes popping out is black or white. To blame the Loxia for being "only f2.4" is weird, when there are faster alternatives available.

However, may I disagree with you on one point? I do think it's important to keep in mind that we all have different preferences, needs, expectations and budgets. From I can tell, you have a strong dislike for the GM lenses. On the other hand, plenty of people need/want a 24-70 2.8 or an AF 85 1.4, and going by Roger's comparison, the GM lenses seem to hold up well to the Canikon competition.

As for the 85/90mm focal length, I don't doubt that the Loxia 85 is the best solution outside the Otus, assuming you can live with f2.4 and MF. I don't shoot portraiture, so I have no clue, but I'd think that those who are willing to pay the price in money and weight for a 85 1.4 will use it wide open or may be at f1.6 or f2. That need for speed coupled with the need/want for AF means the Loxia won't be the right choice and hence this person may prefer a Batis or GM 85, irrespective of whether the Loxia is in many ways (MTF, distortion correction, etc.) the superior lens. Personally, I can live very well with my little Elmarit 90 2.8.Is it inferior to the Loxia? Definitely, but for my purposes, it works just fine. I just don't use the 85/90mm often enough to justify spending all that money on a Loxia.



Jan 13, 2017 at 05:26 AM
rji2goleez
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p.49 #7 · p.49 #7 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Isn't nice that we have so many choices to fulfill so many needs! It was just a couple of years ago when there were relatively few choices at any focal length for the FE mount. Now, we have three native mount choices at 85 alone let alone all the adapted (with and without AF)) possibilities. Something to suit everyone's taste . . .


Jan 13, 2017 at 08:35 AM
bjornthun
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p.49 #8 · p.49 #8 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


There is a rumour that we will soon get yet one more choice of 85mm FE lenses, a Sony budget 85mm FE lens. If true, I think this is good, since the current native 85mm lenses are on the expensive side.


Jan 13, 2017 at 08:53 AM
GMPhotography
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p.49 #9 · p.49 #9 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


This Loxia does not replace my GM 85 by any stretch of the imagination. It would be a secondary lens for sure. I love manual focus glass but I need AF in some areas and this focal length is it. Now I could easily make a case for replacing my GM 85 for a GM 135 and getting the Loxia for 85 but until that happens the GM 85 is just too important for my needs.

Chris_88 wrote:
Philip, I don't know what reviews you are referring to exactly, but when reading customer reviews on Japanese websites I sometimes get annoyed when people bash a lens they just bought, because it's too big/too slow/too whatever. It's not as if they bought a jack-in-the-box without knowing whether the jack that comes popping out is black or white. To blame the Loxia for being "only f2.4" is weird, when there are faster alternatives available.

However, may I disagree with you on one point? I do think it's important to keep in mind that we all have different preferences, needs, expectations
...Show more



Jan 13, 2017 at 09:15 AM
jhinkey
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p.49 #10 · p.49 #10 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Sony and their E-mount partners (Zeiss) are doing a good job in rolling out lenses for the A7 series. Nice to have options


Jan 13, 2017 at 11:56 AM
Javier Munoz
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p.49 #11 · p.49 #11 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


bjornthun wrote:
There is a rumour that we will soon get yet one more choice of 85mm FE lenses, a Sony budget 85mm FE lens. If true, I think this is good, since the current native 85mm lenses are on the expensive side.


I hope they upgrade the AF (with respect to the 50 f1.8)



Jan 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM
jhinkey
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p.49 #12 · p.49 #12 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


bjornthun wrote:
There is a rumour that we will soon get yet one more choice of 85mm FE lenses, a Sony budget 85mm FE lens. If true, I think this is good, since the current native 85mm lenses are on the expensive side.


I hope it's the build quality that's "budget" and not the optics . . . though it likely won't happen that way



Jan 13, 2017 at 12:17 PM
bjornthun
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p.49 #13 · p.49 #13 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


jhinkey wrote:
I hope it's the build quality that's "budget" and not the optics . . . though it likely won't happen that way


Sonyalpharumors speculate, that it will be f/1.8, which to me may mean a double Gauss or Planar type, if it's a budget lens. I think that an updated Sony 85/2.8 FE designed as a Sonnar may be a better way to go, in order to make an optically good or even excellent lens.. The A mount 85/2.8 is a five element Sonnar, similar in layout to the Contax G 90/2.8.

I hope Sony goes th 85mm f/2.8 Sonnar route with a budget lens.



Jan 13, 2017 at 12:32 PM
Alfredo Mora
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p.49 #14 · p.49 #14 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


More sample images from the Loxia 85. Basic LR edits.












Jan 13, 2017 at 05:03 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.49 #15 · p.49 #15 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


So, got my Loxia 85/2.4 today and was able to test it against the 85/4 ZM as soon as the rain gave me a break.
My copy is perfectly centered just like my Loxia 50/2. First copy, perfect for both!

I have studied the crops and concluded that they are very similar wide open (f/2.4 vs f/4) and at f/7.1 and smaller apertures.
The Loxia has a cooler cast and the ZM colors are warmer. The ZM is also a bit wider.

So, here is the deal (IMO). The Loxia 85 is FANTASTIC but so is the ZM. (I've seen bad copies of the ZM though)

Technically the Loxia is capable of higher resolution/contrast but the difference it very small at 1:1.
The Loxia is better than the ZM at all apertures including f/8 but you have to look hard to see it. In practical terms, there is not much difference.

Is it worth it? For landscapes where size/weight are advantages, I would say the ZM is a great alternative . Pricewise, you can grab a ZM for about $575 used while the Loxia is more pricey right now. The Loxia is also twice as big and twice as heavy...However, if you often shoot at f/2.4, the choice is easy.

Here are the f/7.1 crops. (Best of 3 for both lenses)
I will post more later.




Center 1:1 crop at infinity distance.






Mid-Field 1:1 crop at infinity distance






Extreme Edges 1:1 crop at infinity distance (Note the ZM is a bit wider)




Jan 13, 2017 at 06:58 PM
alba63
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p.49 #16 · p.49 #16 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Hm, as the samples show, almost on par, the Loxia resolves a tiny bit more, but unlikely one would see any difference in any print - plus, the difference could easily be compensated by some sharpening.
The much more obvious difference in my eyes being the speed (1,5 stops brighter) plus the operation: Loxia can activate focus loupe, is native etc.

For landscape use and for someone who simply always stops down, the ZM is cheaper and more compact, for anyone who also wants to shoot wider open than F4 (relatively slow obviously), easy choice. The price of the Loxia is of course high, but we are comparing a used to a new lens. Always apples and oranges, albeit real.



Jan 13, 2017 at 07:12 PM
GMPhotography
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p.49 #17 · p.49 #17 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Well I pretty much quessed this would be the case from the start. Having the GM 85 the ZM makes more sense for me. I just bought the ZM 25 used and this I'll get used for the third time and both equal the cost of the Loxia. No brainer

Edited on Jan 13, 2017 at 07:29 PM · View previous versions



Jan 13, 2017 at 07:24 PM
GMPhotography
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p.49 #18 · p.49 #18 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Too me I think for folks only wanting one 85 and manual focus, it's a great choice. It's still fast and it's a emount which is handy.


Jan 13, 2017 at 07:28 PM
GMPhotography
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p.49 #19 · p.49 #19 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


Fred thanks for doing this test, I was waiting for this.


Jan 13, 2017 at 07:29 PM
Luvwine
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p.49 #20 · p.49 #20 · Official: Loxia 85mm f/2.4 Sonnar


The MTF graphs show the Loxia as better but not hugely. One comment is as Fred mentions there is some copy variation with the ZM and this is best of class of several samples versus a random Loxia. The earlier comparison showed a greater difference in favor of Loxia. Still size/weight difference is undeniable. I still don't understand stopping down past F5.6 for infinity use if 5.6 is the best aperture for the lens. Here, Loxia is past its best (5.6 I think) and ZM is at its best yet Loxia ahead albeit slightly. From the earlier comparison Loxia is also likely better corrected for CA. For me too it is an easy choice. I choose Loxia unless size or weight is the primary concern.


Jan 13, 2017 at 08:05 PM
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