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Archive 2015 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?

  
 
mcj0000
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


Tilt shift lenses for landscapes, in your opinion how important are they? I'm interested in getting a wide angle TS lens like the Canon 24mm TS-E but I'm not sure how often, if ever, I'll actually use the movements.

So TS lens users, what are your experiences on this, is TS mostly a neat feature to have occasionally or is it close to a requirement for great landscape photos once you start using it?



Oct 20, 2015 at 04:30 PM
millsart
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


I think if it was essential, then you wouldn't be wondering things like "I'm not sure how often, if ever, I'll actually use the movements".




Oct 20, 2015 at 05:03 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


It's a very personal decision. I've seen great photos taken both with and without so I'd not say it's essential, and although I'm a great believer I don't always reach for a T/S lens.

Perhaps ask yourself;
Do you find yourself wanting to correct verticals a lot?
Do you find yourself wanting to get more in focus (near/far) with little in the frame above the shot (so that you can effectively use the tilt function)

Mike



Oct 20, 2015 at 05:09 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


millsart wrote:
I think if it was essential, then you wouldn't be wondering things like "I'm not sure how often, if ever, I'll actually use the movements".



+1




Oct 20, 2015 at 05:10 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


Can you rent lenses easily where you are?


Oct 20, 2015 at 05:10 PM
rw11
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


landscapes as in towering cliffs? very tall trees?

or what?



Oct 20, 2015 at 05:25 PM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


millsart wrote:
I think if it was essential, then you wouldn't be wondering things like "I'm not sure how often, if ever, I'll actually use the movements".



Pithy, but not really fair. I've never had a piece of equipment become essential to my workflow before I'd actually used it. It always seems to work the other way around. And I believe that's what the OP is asking. Among people who have used PC lenses for landscape, does anyone now find them essential or did anyone realize they didn't use the movements and went back to smaller standard lenses.

Personally, I find T/S lenses to be a good compromise between a standard lens and a tech camera, and Canon's latest 24 and the 17 are easily the best of bunch both optically and in usability, but if I were going to carry something that large, I'd just take my tech cam.



Oct 20, 2015 at 06:07 PM
navmannz
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


I use a TS-E 24 II on an A7RII, and while I have other wide angle lenses, if I have a scene I really want to nail, I'll go for the TS-E every time. Partly its the superb optics - check out http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-TS-E-24mm-f-3.5-L-II-Tilt-Shift-Lens-Review.aspx for example, of photozone's review of this lens - its very good. But the combination of shift and tilt also enables maintenance of perspective for near-far shots that I find hard to achieve with my other wide angles, and the ability to achieve sharp focus from close to far in such shots you will struggle to achieve without it. I think that its worth every cent!

John







Oct 20, 2015 at 07:03 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


I like TS-E lenses very much, but unless you are also pursuing city or architecture, it seemed needlessly expensive and bulky. The lenses suit me very well, along with Canon macros. Truth be told, I have no problem using the D800e for landscape with Samyang 14, Zeiss 25 and 35, and Nikon 60/D macro. Buildings make the difference.

mcj0000 wrote:
Tilt shift lenses for landscapes, in your opinion how important are they? I'm interested in getting a wide angle TS lens like the Canon 24mm TS-E but I'm not sure how often, if ever, I'll actually use the movements.

So TS lens users, what are your experiences on this, is TS mostly a neat feature to have occasionally or is it close to a requirement for great landscape photos once you start using it?




Oct 20, 2015 at 07:20 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


Tilt-shift lenses are an important part of my lens portfolio. I have a lot of money invested in them; Canon TS-E 17/4L, 24/3.5L II, and Mamiya C and A lenses from 35mm to 200mm, using a Mirex M645 to Canon TS adapter.

Sometimes, I actually use these important lenses, but more often, not.

I typically use them in situations when I'm using a tripod with manual focus LiveView, and I have time to compose the image, and then recompose the image, and then change from horizontal to vertical orientation, and then I link the camera to my smart phone for higher image magnification, and then... IOW, I can take the time that I need to get the image that I want to get. Don't get me wrong, I don't need an infinite amount of time to take a decent TS image, but if I'm pressed for time (and I really don't need perspective or plane of focus control) then I'll probably use a different lens, like the CZ 18/3.5 ZE, or SMC Pentax 28/2, or Contax CZ 35-70/3.4 or CZ 100/3.5 (or a Canon L telephoto, or the EF 40/2.8 STM, or...). I've seen many, fine improvised handheld T-S images. None of them were mine.

Long story short, lens tilt and/or shift movements enable you to take an image that requires less post-processing to correct perspective faults, and/or to affect the plane of focus. The latter of which (plane of focus) is often very challenging and sometimes not possible to replicate in post-processing.

In general, the wider the lens, the more often I will use shift, for perspective control. For short to medium telephoto lenses, I'm more often looking for tilt, to get the 'ground plane' in focus. For moderately wide to short-telephoto, I'm all over the place (i.e. I often use both tilt and shift).

If you want more info on tilt-shift, here's some gateway threads,

Hi : ) !!! - Mamiya lens users - A few questions !!! https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1229056/0#11699305

Canon TS-E, TS, Shift and PC Images [Jim Harris (Gunzorro) ] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1219961
- [my Battle Harbour examples] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1219961/7#11836518
- [my basic summary of movement effects] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1219961/8#12126166

Want to master a Tilt n Shift ? https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1109125/0#10588672

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1132088/0
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1009506
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1217488
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1162834/



Oct 20, 2015 at 07:29 PM
millsart
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


Of course its important to remember there is no "free lunch" with shifting the plane of focus. You may be able to get the entire field of flowers in focus, but, that also means if there is a tall free the top of it is now going to be out of focus.

I'm a bit jealous of modern mirrorless for T/S though. I remember trying to observe things through the OVF of cameras like my 1Ds and 5D when I shot Canon and had all the TS/E lenses.

So nice to be able to have a zoomed in live view and actually see what that 2 degrees of tilt actually does.

That said, no, they aren't essential because easily 95% of landscape photography isn't being done with TS lenses and there are certainly lots of amazing images out there.

Cool tools to play with, but pricey tools

You can do a lot digitally these days too with focus stacking, perspective corrections etc.

Software can also easily stitch without the need for the flat stitching you could do with shifts too

Unless I did a lot of paid architectural work where I really didn't want any keystoning etc, I wouldn't own any in this current day.

The Canon 17 is a gem though as far as lenses go



Oct 20, 2015 at 08:44 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


millsart wrote:
I'm a bit jealous of modern mirrorless for T/S though. I remember trying to observe things through the OVF of cameras like my 1Ds and 5D when I shot Canon and had all the TS/E lenses. ...


I agree with everything you say, Art. I'd just like to mention that modern DSLR have excellent LiveView image "observation" capability on the rear LCD, same as contemporary mirrorless cameras do.



Oct 20, 2015 at 09:13 PM
LightShow
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


Not essential, but I do know of a few photogs that use T/S lenses for 90% of their shooting.
If you take the time to get the photo perfect, then you will likely find them very essential, on the other hand, if you don't take the extra time to get every last ounce of IQ you can get, then you may find it slow and cumbersome.
An added bonus, even with no movements, the corners are usually superb because you are nowhere near the edge of the projected image.



Oct 20, 2015 at 09:15 PM
mcj0000
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


millsart wrote:
I think if it was essential, then you wouldn't be wondering things like "I'm not sure how often, if ever, I'll actually use the movements".



freaklikeme wrote:
Pithy, but not really fair. I've never had a piece of equipment become essential to my workflow before I'd actually used it. It always seems to work the other way around. And I believe that's what the OP is asking.



Thanks, this is what I meant Not looking for any absolute truth, I'm just interested in hearing the experience and subjective opinion on using tilt shift lenses.



Oct 21, 2015 at 05:45 AM
rdeloe
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


Another way to come at your question is to clarify what problem it is you're trying to solve with camera movements, and then determine whether or not you have that problem enough to warrant the expense (time and money!) My introduction to camera movements was Ansel Adam's classic book "The Camera", which you can still buy (and which is in most libraries). "Tilt-shift" in small format cameras comes from the world of view cameras -- so it might be helpful to see what problems people are solving with view cameras. The book has loads of example photographs in addition to nice, clear instructions on camera movements.

Speaking personally, I make a lot of use of camera movements. I seem to use tilt a lot more than shift; for other people it's the reverse. If your camera can be used with a Canon FD mount (or you're willing to adapt the lens) you could try a Canon FD 35mm f/2.8 tilt-shift lens. I just sold mine, but it's an excellent lens and gives you a nice range of tilt and a bit of shift (either parallel or perpendicular to the tilt depending on how you configure the lens). jcolwell pointed you to the Mirex adapters. That's the solution I'm using too (thanks to a lot of good advice on this forum!) Most people on the forum are using Mamiya 645 lenses with a Mirex adapter. I went with Pentax 645 (SMC-A) lenses because I like the way they work more than Mamiya, and because the 35mm SMC-A is supposed to be a stronger lens overall. I'm happy with that choice; plenty of people seem to be happy with the Mamiya route. I've also discovered that you can eke out a usable amount of tilt and even a tiny bit of shift using lenses designed for 35mm or full frame digital. I have two Mirex adapters (one is for Pentax 645 to Canon EOS, and one is for Canon EOS to Sony Nex). That gives me the best of both worlds (SMC-A 645 for 35mm to 150mm on the Mirex P645-EOS + Mirex EOS-NEX, and various lenses on the Mirex EOS-NEX). Of course the simplest option if you have the money is the Canon TS-E II 24mm lens which seems to be unmatched.

Going down the "tilt-shift" road is really a lot of fun and opens up some different creative possibilities... but it's only worth the bother if it solves a problem you actually have. Good luck.



Oct 21, 2015 at 08:05 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


jcolwell wrote:
I agree with everything you say, Art. I'd just like to mention that modern DSLR have excellent LiveView image "observation" capability on the rear LCD, same as contemporary mirrorless cameras do.


Okay to use TS with LiveView but by far not as good as with EVF in mirrorless. I do both often since I still rely on my IR-converted 5D MkII and shoot with the A7R+MBIII adapter with my TSE lenses. The magnification within the EVF is simply better and much more accurate, for tilting purposes the focus peaking is a big helper, too.



Oct 21, 2015 at 08:42 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


There is only one con for me for not using especially my 24/3.5 TSE II lens - bulk and weight. On hikes I simply avoid it and rather use my small CV 21/1.8 lens on my A7R camera instead.

I like my 24 TSE II lens especially for beach scenes or for landscape scenes with houses/cabins/castles/skyscrapers. So far never felt the need to go wider with a TSE lens than 24 mm FL. But I often use the 24 TSE II with 1.4x or 2x teleconverters, too.

The 90/2.8 TSE is an excellent tool for closeup photography with extension tubes using its tilt capability. I also use it for landscapes, but less often than my 24 TSE II lens here.



Oct 21, 2015 at 08:50 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


retrofocus wrote:
Okay to use TS with LiveView but by far not as good as with EVF in mirrorless. I do both often since I still rely on my IR-converted 5D MkII and shoot with the A7R+MBIII adapter with my TSE lenses. The magnification within the EVF is simply better and much more accurate, for tilting purposes the focus peaking is a big helper, too.


I can use my smart phone for that.



Oct 21, 2015 at 09:39 AM
markhout
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


Like any tool, it all depends on your shooting style. I rented a 24mm T/S and found out that this is not my niche, even coming from 4x5. If I can I correct horizontal / vertical lines in Photoshop or Lightroom.

I do sometimes use focus stacking in landscapes, which doesn't work when water is involved.

Also, I am going to look into using my smartphone as a EVF!



Oct 21, 2015 at 12:37 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Tilt shift for landscapes, essential?


markhout wrote:
...Also, I am going to look into using my smartphone as a EVF!


Here's some threads about that.

Galaxy Note 3 GN3 with DSLR controller vs. 6D rear LCD at 10x [HDMI vs. VGA]
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1292421/0#12329285
[response to iPad remote thread] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1365339/0#13014565

DIY mount gizmo for GN3 https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1299437/1#12397389




Oct 21, 2015 at 03:35 PM
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